Knives, Sheeple and Trouble

Bushman5 said:
Since the Boy Scouts have banned all forms of knives, tools, forks or anything that the anti pointy bit types might be offended by, I'm going to start an organization for youth called Woods-Walkers. The emphasis will be on basic outdoors skills, the tools needed (such as knives, axes, rifles). There will be no dumbed down classes or skills taught. Just good ol outdoors fun, building shelters, REAL fire circles, knife, ax and rifle use etc. I just about puked when the local "scout" leader here told me they are not allowed to make campfires or let the scouts carry even the most basic of knives, the SAK. Their idea of a fire is sitting INSIDE a room with a red lightbulb inside a pile of sticks. It made me angry.



I'm pretty sure that many in North America have had enough of the dumbed down that is the Scouts today, and would be willing to support Woods-Walkers.

EDITED BY B5, poor language. I apologize to the community
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It is unfortunate that things have gotten to the point that they have but it's not really the fault of the BSA itself, but the insurance companies they work with, the parents that don't want their children playing with dangerous knives and have no control over said kids.

Alot of the kids I've worked with recently in scouts, I wouldn't want them to have a butter knife. No self control or common sense. Not to mention that they have never been allowed to handle or use knives of any kind for any reason.

Fact is, kids just aren't what they were even 20 years ago.
 
Trigcure said:
They told me i could not wear my Buck 110 to Boyscout meetings. is that not sad?
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That's not anything new. When I was a scout about 15 years ago the rule was that personal knives had to be folders under 3", which is more than enough for camping. Of course, in those days you couldn't carry a knife unless you also demonstrated competence with an axe and a bow saw.
 
Hmm, when I was a boy scout 6-7 years ago, I know that I and a few others carried SAKs regularly to both normal meetings and outdoor events.

I no longer use my knife at work, however, due to a female employee (whom I have known for years, and been friends with outside of work to a small extent) exclaiming, upon my using a pocketknife to open a very thick and tough lottery ticket shipping bag, "Oh my god! Where did you get that switchblade fish carving knife!?!?". She said that loudly enough that others could hear, although luckily not within earshot of a manager.

It was neither a switchblade, or a fillet knife, and it had a sub-3 inch blade.
 
ajpalda said:
Hmm, when I was a boy scout 6-7 years ago, I know that I and a few others carried SAKs regularly to both normal meetings and outdoor events.

I no longer use my knife at work, however, due to a female employee (whom I have known for years, and been friends with outside of work to a small extent) exclaiming, upon my using a pocketknife to open a very thick and tough lottery ticket shipping bag, "Oh my god! Where did you get that switchblade fish carving knife!?!?". She said that loudly enough that others could hear, although luckily not within earshot of a manager.

It was neither a switchblade, or a fillet knife, and it had a sub-3 inch blade.
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Okay, that gave me a good laugh. Oh man, sometimes, you just have to stop and laugh. Switchblade fish carving knife? Man, I'd like to see that. A nice 7" OTF fillet knife.
 
It gives me great sadness to see that many Scout troops are placing such pussified restrictions on our youth....What ever happened to "Be Prepared"??? Back in the day, you could pretty much depend on a Scout to know what to do if and when the stuff hit the fan....
 
i work in a kitchen, some of the time, so i guess they aren't so surprised i carry blades wherever i go.

though to avoid unnecessary questions i use a beat up old henckels for trivial stuff only whipping out the mini com for tasks that actually need it
 
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I had a positive "sheeple" experiance a couple of days ago.
as part of my EDC I carry a victorinox swisscard, complete with the blade, to collage.
knives in the hands of anyone under the age of 18 are portrayed as a cause for serious alarm over here, and the media makes much of "teenage knife crime". and although I've never seen anything in print, I'm probably breaking collage rules as well, but there you go.
normaly the knife lives in my wallet, out of sight, so it causes no trouble, but somehow (I'm not sure how) it achieved to fall out of my wallet in my tutor room, to be found by annother pupil, who handed it in. eventualy word got to me that he knife had been found, so I went to the collage head (principle) who apparently had said knife.
she quite happily handed me back the knife, seemingly satisfied with my fairly vague 5 second explanation of it as a tool, and sent me on my way with a wry joke about how "she'll have to look out in future, incase I go mental".

I wasn't expecting the knife back, let alone that quickly.

I have been accused, admitedly by relatively un-knowledgeable fellow scouts of having a "flick knife" (switchblade). a linerlock is not a switchblade by any stretch of the imagination.....
 
IMO there's no reason for the restrictions on Scout troops.

We always had to demonstrate competence with anything like a knife, hatchet, axe, saw, shovel, etc before we could carry it. It was a mark of shame that was quickly rectified if you were deemed not competent and lost thr ability to carry said tool in uniform. That's a perfectly good way to determine who can carry what.

But in our touchy-feely, mealy-mouthed society, we must punish everyone for the stupidity and incompetence of a few.
 
Boy Scouts of America has not banned knives (I have no experience with Scouting in other countries). To any scout leader who thinks their scouts should not carry knives, I have a few simple questions:

- Why is proper knife handling taught in the current Boy Scout Handbook?

- Why does BSA award the Totin' Chip to scouts who have successfully demonstrated their ability to carry, care for, and use knives, axes, and saws properly (see the BSA Website, http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/advancementandawards/meritbadges/totin.aspx. And, while you are in the BSA.org site, type knife into the search box and see how many times BSA suggests or requires knives and knife skills).

- If BSA bans knives, why is a pocketknife included on BSA's "Essential Ten" list for hiking and camping?

- If BSA bans knives, how can any scout ever earn Second Class rank (see http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Second_Class_Rank, requirement 2, c, or Fishing Merit Badge, requirement 9 - see http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Fishing, to site only two examples.)

Every scout in my son's troop carries on campouts, and most carry at meetings, too, as do all adult leaders. We TELL THEM to carry when teaching them how to prepare for the outdoors, and emphasize the importance of having a reliable knife because it is the tool with which all (well, almost all) other camp tools are made, and potentially a matter of life and death in survival situations (for which we train every scout).

Oh yeah, its off subject, but I want to add that we also teach them how to handle a gun and hit what they are aiming at; at BSA maintained and staffed shooting ranges, with BSA purchased ammunition! The ones who are good enough also get awards for their shooting skills.

Shame on these wimpmasters! How do they answer the questions I have posed? These wimpmasters need to re-think what scouting is about. It is about a life of adventure, confidence earned by accomplishment, and responsible self-reliance. Anything less is not scouting!

Sorry for this rant. It’s way too long, I know, and probably no one will read it anyway, but this old scouter got his ire up, and wanted to set the record straight!

Keep `em sharp, boys and girls!
 
knives and weapons dont belong in an office or administrative environment. this should be common sense.
 
Josh K said:
:rolleyes: Here we go again.
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any opinion thats different from the swarm of sheep here is unacceptable to you i know. thats sad. but most offices in the 21st century have letter openers, utility blades, and scissors. and you will most likely find that weapons are not allowed into the work place for that exact reason that the OP mentioned. it might make people freak out. although it may be unreasonable a company has to think about ALL its employees. not just the one who thinks hes macguyver.
 
StotheE said:
any opinion thats different from the swarm of sheep here is unacceptable to you i know. thats sad. but most offices in the 21st century have letter openers, utility blades, and scissors. and you will most likely find that weapons are not allowed into the work place for that exact reason that the OP mentioned. it might make people freak out. although it may be unreasonable a company has to think about ALL its employees. not just the one who thinks hes macguyver.
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I'm sorry, but when I walk into the office and my boss, who's also the owner, and the president of the company, is cleaning his sawed off 12 gauge on my desk, I don't think it's unreasonable to carry a knife to work.

I have had zero problems carrying a knife in an office environment. As others have repeatable said, sure you have utility knives, but when is one right there at hand when you need it?
 
StotheE said:
knives and weapons dont belong in an office or administrative environment. this should be common sense.
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Stothe: I could not agree more. Possesion of a powerful tool (like a knife) carries with it the duty of responsible behavior and good citizenship, and that includes obeying the law and respecting the rights of others (including the right of a person who owns or administers property to dictate what is brought onto their property).

One minor point: this is not a disagreement, Stothe; I agree with you, and I may be guilty of misunderstanding you here, in which case I appologize sincerely. I just wanted to mention that it makes me sad when I see the words "knife" and "weapon" used in a way that suggests the two are the same thing. Yes, knives certainly can be used as weapons, and when they are, the person holding the knife can do terrible harm to others. So can a person holding a baseball bat or a pointy stick. However, my experience probably mirrors that of most other members of this forum: I have carried a blade of some kind since I was an eight-year-old Cub Scout (except when to do so would have been illeagle, unsafe, or offensive to others) and none of my blades have EVER caused harm to another living creature, nor will they ever in the future. My knives are tools with which I do constructive work, they are not weapons. I am confident that the same is true in your case, too.
 
Josh K said:
I'm sorry, but when I walk into the office and my boss, who's also the owner, and the president of the company, is cleaning his sawed off 12 gauge on my desk, I don't think it's unreasonable to carry a knife to work.

I have had zero problems carrying a knife in an office environment. As others have repeatable said, sure you have utility knives, but when is one right there at hand when you need it?
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thats cool and more power to you. you are lucky to have a boss who likes outdoor sports. i dont think its unreasonable at all to have a knife at work. but at the same time i understand why a professional office environment would frown upon knives in the office. and if i have to use a utility blade instead of scissors im really not gonna cry or think its unreasonable.
 
CountyRat said:
Stothe: I could not agree more. Possesion of a powerful tool (like a knife) carries with it the duty of responsible behavior and good citizenship, and that includes obeying the law and respecting the rights of others (including the right of a person who owns or administers property to dictate what is brought onto their property).

One minor point: this is not a disagreement, Stothe; I agree with you, and I may be guilty of misunderstanding you here, in which case I appologize sincerely. I just wanted to mention that it makes me sad when I see the words "knife" and "weapon" used in a way that suggests the two are the same thing. Yes, knives certainly can be used as weapons, and when they are, the person holding the knife can do terrible harm to others. So can a person holding a baseball bat or a pointy stick. My experience probably mirrors that of most other members of this forum: I have carried a blade of some kind since I was an eight-year-old Cub Scout (except when to do so would have been illeagle, unsafe, or offensive to others) and none of my blades have EVER caused harm to another living creature, nor will they ever in the future. My knives are tools with which I do constructive work, they are not weapons.
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exactly my point.

they are weapons imo. if a cop searched you and asked you before if you had any weapons on you you would show him your knife. hopefully. calling it a weapon is not a judgement on your character but of the tool in question IMO.
 
StotheE said:
thats cool and more power to you. you are lucky to have a boss who likes outdoor sports. i dont think its unreasonable at all to have a knife at work. but at the same time i understand why a professional office environment would frown upon knives in the office. and if i have to use a utility blade instead of scissors im really not gonna cry or think its unreasonable.
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Well I do work in detroit. That may have something to do with it. ;)

I still fail to see how they would frown upon a knife and brand it a weapon. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone struggle to open a box because their car keys are not meant for box opening. It is one of man's oldest tools and the fact that we've developed more specialized ones (scissors, utility knives, boning knives, paper shredders) should not negate the fact that a general, every day carry pocket knife is essential.
 
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