Large Fixed Blade?

Ken,

I looked here and here, and was horrified. The SID, on the other hand, ain't bad, except for the name.

Any large knife I make, if I become a knifemaker, will be known as "camp knife #1", or somesuch...:rolleyes:

John
 
Spectre said:
Any large knife I make, if I become a knifemaker, will be known as "camp knife #1", or somesuch...
Click to expand...

I understand.
It seems more and more unlikely to me that Spyderco would make a large fixed blade knife that has a tactical appearance or name.
Spyderco has, by and large, gone out of its way to maintain a good world citizen image.

Yes, Spyderco could go the Camp Knife route, with a robust Chef's knife, drop guard and all.
If I could use it in the kitchen as well as in the field, so much the better.
Spyderco could name it after one of the Mountain Birds that frequent camps for scraps.

Alternatively, Spyderco could go the collector route, creating improved versions of, or interpretations of either a Bowie, Randall or Fairbairn-Sykes type knife, and emphasize the collector and historical significance.

I consider the Chinook II the best self-defense knife ever made, fixed or folder, and how nice and helpful that Spyderco named it the Chinook, and thus made a field knife out of it.
 
AMEN!


To pretty much everything in Ken Cox' post. On the other hand...this IS the same company that makes the Civilian, right? Are we sure a dangerous looking knife is out of the question?
 
"During my nine years in the Marine Corps, I carried a Kabar for awhile, and then realized I never used it for anything and it amounted to needless weight on my belt."

With total respect to the marines, and others, I'm not sure they are the best example here. There was an interesting 4 hour series where they took a buch of guys fresh out of Iraq etc... and took them to the original area the "Devil's Brigade" trained and ran them through what the guys in WWII did. It was interesting what they sucked at. Hand to hand (???); shooting was good but not wonderful; Anything that involved a life skill like sharpening a knife (scenes of them filling over the edge). The one thing where they were super wonderful and actually looked elite (some were special forces), was movement and, awareness, and tactics in an operational setting (I'm certainly not military and don't know the right terms here). But in a lot of the training exercises they looked like newbies, rock climbing, hand to hand, camp craft, parachute. Then they would get given a target, and slink off and it was like watching Micahel Jordan go on the court.

Hey wonderful, that's what they do. They don't cook for themselves, drive themselves, walk themselves (as much), burn their sh%tters, camp in the open, it's all done by Haliburton, but they do go in there and take people down.

So in terms of a big knife (the boys didn't have much knowledge of using that puppy either), fantasy aside I think the guy who needs this kind of thing really isn't the marine, how many people stand behind one fighting marine in some kind of support role? Now me on a canoe trip or my farm, totaly different proposition. From chisels to broadaxes, I have hundreds of edges getting pretty regular use.
 
Wow, got in late in the discussion. I'm in market right now for a large fix blade. Howver, like previously mentioned, I"m looking for more of a camp knife than a MBC knife.
 
Ken Cox said:
I have three fixed-blade knives in mind that I would like to see made by Spyderco.

I will discuss only one of them, now.

When Bo Randall made the first Model 1 "All-Purpose Fighting Knife" it had a perfectly straight handle with no drop or curve in it.
The knife also had (and still has) a curved depression in the spine, just forward of the substantial hilt.
Given the above, I think Bo Randall, more than anyone else in modern times, successfully interpreted James Bowie's second Bowie Knife; the one made for him by James Black.

Yes, James Bowie had two Bowie Knives.
The first, made for him by his brother Rezin Bowie, and which James used in the infamous Vidalia Sand Bar fight (I have visited Vidalia), resembled a large Butcher's Knife, or Chef's Knife, with a drop guard (no hilt) and a sharpened swedge.

James's brother Rezin had a similar knife, if not identical to the one he made for James.
We know that Rezin almost lost his thumb in a knife fight with a bull, in which Rezin's hand slid up the knife when he stabbed the bull, and thus severely injured Rezin's thumb.
This suggest to us that Rezin and James held their knives, in a fight, major edge up and swedge down.
Rezin could not have cut his thumb in any other way.

Why would they do that?

Well, if they had knives in which the center line of the grip passed through the center of mass of the blade all the way to the tip, it meant they could use the heavy, unsharpened "spine" to parry and bludgeon, while retaining the sharpened swedge for slashing and hacking; and, furthermore, with the major edge up, they had, in effect, a double-edged knife that would allow them to cut aggressively with an upward motion, such as between an adversary's legs and the inside of an adversary's thighs (femoral artery).
Such a knife, with a long, fine swedge and minimal belly, would have a substantial point, which would make it an excellent stabbing weapon.

So, why the depression in the spine just in front of the hilt?

When James Bowie decided to have a new fighting and all-purpose knife made by Arkansas knife-maker James Black, he submitted a design to Black and gave him a month or two to make it.
James Black looked at James Bowie's design and made that design and another like it, but modified according to James Black's ideas.
James Black reportedly used some meteorite in forging the blade, which means the steel had a high nickel content.
In any event, when James Bowie returned, James Black set out both knives and allowed James Bowie his choice.
Bowie selected the knife designed by Black, and not his own.

Again I ask, why the depression in the spine just in front of the hilt?

James Black intended for Bowie to crowd (choke-up on) the hilt with his hand, and wrap his index finger around and in front of the hilt, and around the depression in the spine, so that the hilt would stick out between Bowie's index and middle fingers; thus making the hilt a sub-hilt.
This would give Bowie not only better retention of the knife in a desperate melee; it would give him more power and leverage in a downward, overhand slash/bludgeon/swing/chop; and, it would also give him more power in an upward pull between his adversary's legs, or in his adversary's abdomen.

We don't have James Bowie's second (or first) Bowie Knife, because one of Santa Anna's soldiers took it from Bowie's lifeless body at the Alamo.
However, I think Bo Randall thoroughly researched the second Bowie Knife and replicated it with the first of his Model 1 "All Purpose Fighting Knife."

Bo Randall's surviving family denies this.
They say Bo never told them about the depression in the spine, nor described it as a place for the index finger.
So?
Maybe Bo didn't explain everything.

In any event, the early Model 1's had a perfectly straight handle with the blade on center with the handle, so that a Marine on Guadalcanal, fighting hand to hand in the darkness of Bloody Ridge, could have used his Model 1 major edge up, with his index finger in front of the hilt.
Advantageously, the same Marine could have held it the next morning in a conventional manner, major edge down, as a camp knife.
With a perfectly straight handle, centered on the blade and point, it works either way.

So, a Model 1, as interpreted by Spyderco, would measure 13.5" in total length.
Thirteen and a half inches corresponds to a Golem (3/4's of a Hebrew cubit), and to the average "pull" of a male human being.
The word "pull" refers to the length from the inside of the curved middle finger to the inside of the bent elbow, and the word has relevance in archery and riflery.
The Sword of Ehud in all probability measured one Golem.

This 13.5" knife would have a blade 8.343" long, a handle 5.157" long, and a sharpened swedge 3.187" long; based on the Golden Section of 1:1.618.

The knife will utilize a modern stainless, chrome-nickel steel.

It will have a symmetrical hilt and a depression in the spine for the index finger.
The knife will balance at the depression.

Sal knows a lot about the human hand, and I would expect him to design a symmetrical handle that a person could use in various modes, edge up and edge down.

:)
Click to expand...

KEN'S reasoning makes sense to me, but I would prefer O-1, A-2, or other non stainlesss for more toughness
An affordable version of Walter Brend's Model 2 has lots of appeal for me too.
 
Perhaps a longer Temperance... Or a Civilian or Police as someone else suggested, or a return of the old Massad Ayoob style. The Civilian (plain or serrated edge, you know best) longer fixed blade would be QUITE interesting. :D

As for materials... VG10?

As for why... Well I've been looking for a larger fixed blade knife perhaps for EDC and SD, and was disappointed to find Sypderco didn't have anything much larger than the Temperance for that purpose. But continuing with names such as "Chinook" would be wise, IMO. ;)

- Chaya
 
Not much to add, since Spyderco already offers what I think there are some damn fine fixed blades, just wanted to show you something. It even has the round hole! ;)

Blade28.jpg
 
I believe the market is not for the fantasy knives style or bowie combat style.

A timeless fixed blade for N.A. is the full convex ground 6 inch camp knife, blade fairly straight VG-10 stainless, thin cross section at the spine for efficient cutting. An example is the market BRKT has developed with their heavy stock, full tang knives, these are overweight clunky knives that sell very well. We need a lightweight well designed handle with the basic blade shape of Marbles/BRKT.

Leave the sharpened pry bars and combat knives to other manuf.

Regards,
FK
 
Hmmnn. It would be really nice to have a fixed blade equivelent of the Chinook. Something maybe 5.5" long (blade), extra wide & with a deep clip point in line with the center of the handle. Maybe G10 - or Resperene C for that with a contour similar to that of the Blackjack Grunt... Perhaps a little straighter - but not too much.

I'll leave it to the steel experts to make recomendations on that. But with a 5" - 6" blade, you could go with just about anything y'all currenty use...

I think there would be a market for it - I know I'd buy one :)
 
A 1/4" thick camp knife with a 7" blade would be really nice! Maybe something along the lines of a traditional ABS camp knife with a rabbet tang and black micarta handles.
 
Sal, just wondering if you had a chance to read the responses to your thread

here and what are your thoughts?
 
Hi Jack,

yes, Ive been watching. This thread and other comments have moved our fixed blade line up quite a bit.

Currently in recent production or in the works:

Perrin Street Beat (Fred Perrin)
Buchcraft model (Chris Claycomb)
4 Jerry Hossom designs - 4-3/4" 6-3/32" 7-1/2" 9-1/8"
7" camp knife in H1 (Ed Schempp)
4" "Utility" in H1
a Modified sheepfoot version of the Temperance in H1

There are also 2 fixed blade dive knives using Fred Perrin's index finger hole.

There is also and 10" Camp Knife (Ed Schempp) being developed.

I'm working on a larger Temperance with a different handle material than FRN, but it's not finished. I've got other projects ahead of it.

sal
 
Cool! Is the Schempp chopper still being planned in CPM 3V?
I've been dying to try that stuff...
 
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