Large Regular Sebenza Review

Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Messages
659
First off, I am going put down a few pieces of information I haven’t been able to find anywhere else about the Sebenza.

Weight: 4.8 oz.; 136 gr.
Overall length, actually measured on this Sebenza: 8 7/32”
Blade length: 3.487”
Handle length: 4.74”
Blade thickness: .121”
Scale thickness: .150”
Overall thickness: .456” (less clip)
Edge thickness: .023”

The knife has a nice heft to it, certainly gives a feeling of confidence when holding it and using it. The blade grind is quite interesting, hollow ground using an 8” wheel I believe, but toward the point the hollow runs out and if viewed from the spine, it becomes very slightly convex. Makes for a blade with excellent slicing ability, yet it has a very strong point. The blade shape is very practical, slightly dropped point would make for an excellent hunting knife, perfect for opening up a deer. The edge has good curvature, would be quite good for skinning or most general cutting purposes. The edge is ground thin enough for anything a folding knife of this size would normally be used for. The thumb stud is well designed and quite comfortable to use repeatedly. The knurling on the spine for a thumb ramp is very attractive, but needs improvement. The cuts are to shallow, it gives only marginally more grip than a flat area would. If cut just a little deeper, they should provide much more grip. The rest of the spine beyond the ramp has a very nice radius, however. Blade grinding is excellent, with the naked eye, I can find no difference from one side to the other.

As most of you know, bushings and standoffs are used on all three fasteners that hold the handle together. This is a very good improvement over most folders, since you tighten the down screws and the knife is ready. You don’t need any thread locking compounds and there is no adjustment needed for the pivot. The screws could use some improvement, they appear to be standard oval head socket screws, which is fine for this application, but the sockets are bit loose for a standard 5/64” hex wrench. A 2mm hex fits slightly better, but not as good as it should. (No the screws are not metric, but many stainless screws have a loose fit, standard alloy socket head screws have a much closer fit and don’t round out as easily, but wouldn’t be practical in this application since they will rust.) After repeated removals, the sockets on these screws could easily become rounded and need replacement. The ergonomics of this handle are about average in my opinion, but handle comfort is a very personal thing. I would most likely prefer the Classic shape over the Regular. The scallops cut into the bottom of the handle may provide for a more slip resistant grip, but after extended use, become uncomfortable. The clip does an excellent job of keeping the knife clipped into your pocket without being to difficult to remove. The extra bend that CRK puts into it is a nice addition to help the clip do its job. On the downside it is not very comfortable in the hand when using it for extended periods of time. If you need to hold the knife in a fencing grip, the clip would start become an irritation after a while. The current clip design doesn’t allow it, but I think that for a knife in this price range, tip up or tip down is an option that should be available, even if that means that you buy a knife either one way or the other, but can’t have both. Since quality is always mentioned when one discusses CRK products, I will mention one minor defect with the clip on this particular knife. It doesn’t quite fit into its pocket properly. I know I am very particular on this point, but if I am to give a complete review, I think this is a fair point to mention in a knife costing $345.00. It only needs about .001” removed from one side to fit better, so we are not talking about much. I also have every confidence that if this were my knife and I sent it back to CRK, they would fix it without any questions asked.

When the lock bar moves over to lock the blade open, it does so with authority. I can’t imagine any normal situation that would cause this knife to unlock accidentally. It moves across to cover the back of the blade by about 1/8” and it takes a pretty strong push to unlock it. This is another area where I would most likely prefer the Classic handle since it gives you a larger area to push on to unlock the blade. One other point of minor contention is the area adjacent to the lock bar on the handle. This is a bit hard to describe without photo’s but here goes. The slab which has the cut for the lock bar, at the very end of the cut, where the blade locks; the part which does not move to engage the blade should be rounded off. To put this another way, if you hold the knife normally, with your index finger covering the slot for the lock bar, the corner of the fixed part of the slab is exposed when the lock bar moves over. This corner should be radiused as again, after extended use this could cause some irritation to the index finger. I have found this to be the case on all frame locks that I have looked at, so it is certainly not unique to the Sebenza, but I think it is something that could be addressed. Again, both of these are very minor flaws.

In conclusion, I would have to agree that when compared to any production knife that I have looked at, including William Henry and Lone Wolf, the Sebenza beats them in quality. I assume from what I have read here that they are extremely consistent from one knife to another and if something is amiss, they will do their best to fix it. If you are in this price range and need a full size frame lock folder, the Sebenza is the standard to measure up to. Custom makers may do equally well, but I have yet to see a production knife that has all of these features and precision.

One more side note. It has been mentioned several times that the Sebenza might be an inferior knife because Chris Reeve will not fix the knife under warranty if you flip it open. The fact of the matter is that if you are flipping the knife open, you are imparting impact stresses to the stop and the pivot. These stresses are very different than a the normal forces encountered when using the knife to cut even very hard material. Ever try pushing a nail into a piece of oak instead of using a hammer. Yes, automatics and assisted openers are “flipped” by a spring, but these are controlled forces which if properly engineered, are accounted for in the design of the stop and pivot. If you manually flip a knife, the manufacturer has no way of knowing how hard of often you are going to flip the blade. To account for any stresses which these parts might see, the manufacturer of the knife would have to make the stop and pivot significantly larger than the requirements of such a knife. I, for one prefer a balanced approach to design. I have yet to see a need to flip any knife open. If you need something other than the one hand opening designs, buy an assisted knife, an auto or a fixed blade. If you have any questions I may not have answered in this rather lengthy review, please post them and I will do my best to reply.

Richard
 
Thank you Richard for a most informative post!

I particularly like the detailed length, weight and thickness. I haven't seen these anywhere either
and I appreciate the effort that went into getting them.
I've just ordered a small regular that will hopefully get here by Christmas.
I'll let you know how I like it!
 
Very nice.

I agree that I think the classic has a better and more comfortable grip. I also agree that after some take aparts the screws can get a little rounded.

Here's my take on the idea of being able to place the pocket clip at the other end. I now carry them in the front right pocket with the blade against the seam, so it's perfect for that type of carry. But I agree that it makes sense for a knife at this cost that you should have the option.

There where some other very detailed comments earlier in the passaround, I'm looking forward to getting it back to see if I can spot the same things.
 
Thanks to everyone for the kind replies and for letting me be part of this passaround. I was afraid the dimensions would bore most to tears. If anyone is interested, I have the specs. for the standoffs and the pivot and bushing, but wasn't sure if that might be over the top.

DaveH, I carried it in both the front and back pocket and I agree that front pocket would be "safer". My thoughts were simply that for some, myself included, a clip set up at the other end might be more comfortable in the hand. I personally have knives in both tip up and tip down, either way is fine with me. Comfort in the hand is more critical to me than tip up or down.

Richard
 
After putting a rip in a cloth car seat, and punching a $240 hole in a leather car seat. I no longer carry knives in the back pocket. :eek: :mad:
 
Quote, "After putting a rip in a cloth car seat, and punching a $240 hole in a leather car seat. I no longer carry knives in the back pocket." :eek:

I do believe I will learn from someone else’s misfortune and start carrying my knives in my front pocket from now on!

Richard
 
Richard Sommer said:
I can’t imagine any normal situation that would cause this knife to unlock accidentally.

Torques and white knuckle grips can cause it to unlock, most grips tend to make it stronger / more reliable though. It can also overengage and stick.

It has been mentioned several times that the Sebenza might be an inferior knife because Chris Reeve will not fix the knife under warranty if you flip it open.

It is inferior because there are lots of knives that can take such use, thus it is inferior to them in this respect. Lots of makers don't feel this is abuse, Ralph, Mayo, etc. . This is of course only one aspect of the knife.

Reeve also charges a *lot* for fixes that other makers would normally cover for free or much less, such as the lock bar replacement which was very expensive on the forums awhile back, which other makers commented would be replaced under warrenty.

The knife has lots of strong points though as you mentioned.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, is the lockbar incident the one on the CRK forum where the user tried to bend it himself, then sent it in and they charged him something like $150? That's the only one that I recall, and clearly wasn't due to a manufacturing problem.

Also, I have come to the conclusion that the whole flipping warranty thing isn't an issue, or better we don't know it's an issue unless we had some normalized percentages of returns due to a problem and "flipping" from not only CRK, but many other knife manufacturers.
 
Cliff, let me engage you in respectful discussion. It is well known that CRK won’t warranty knives that have been “flipped”. I certainly can’t speak for all frame lock folders, but do you really believe this is because the design is inferior or because Mr. Reeve considers this abuse and therefore won’t cover it. If I look at the stop pin and pivot of the Sebenza compared to other frame locks that I have looked at, the Sebenza is certainly the equal of most production knives. Since this was not my knife, I didn’t check the hardness of the stop bushing or the pivot bushing, but the pivot is .316” in diameter and I believe the stop is .250”. This is larger than most production and probably most customs as well. I would bet if you “flipped” a Sebenza to failure, it would hold up as well as any production knife as well as many customs. This is not to knock any production or custom knife, I am just trying to separate knife design from warranty. I know, if you are buying a knife, you also have to consider the warranty that goes along with it.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the Sebenza is the last word in folding knives, I think there are certain things that can be improved; and I agree that the lock can stick when the handle is squeezed to hard. The angle at which the heal of the blade and the lock bar are ground could use some refinement. I just don’t think that the design of the pivot and stop are flawed.

Respectfully, Richard
 
I think I found the thread that Cliff refers to,

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128546

Lenny sent the knife in and CRK charged him $100 for a new lock side, they thought he had been "flipping" it. Somewhere in the thread, or another thread, Lenny admits he was trying to bend the lockbar himself. At anyrate Lenny was happy when he got his knife back and thought it was worth the $100. for the fix

IMO, the whole flipping voids the warranty thing has been blown completely out of proportion, but it seems to persist with some, like Brownshoe for example, and people seize upon it as an issue.
 
Yes, and when that happened, it was discussed on various other threads and you can find comments by others makers where they would not have charged anywhere near that much to address the problem.

As for the flipping thing, it is a showcase of direct inferiority. How important it is depends on the end user, for some it doesn't matter at all, for some it is of more importance. Just like for some fit and finish doesn't matter nearly as much as actual performance.

-Cliff
 
Richard Sommer said:
... do you really believe this is because the design is inferior

It means the knife is inferior as it isn't supported for that class of use. The technical details of what a knife needs to have to withstand that has been discussed in other threads by various makers.

Can the knife handle it. Even if you did test it and it did, it would not mean anything because you have a blanket statement from the maker that if it does fail its labeled abuse.

A few years back Reeves was not as much of a stand out in this field as it was commonly labeled abusive by a lot of custom makers. Then a few started to say it wasn't abusive to theirs, now you can even find production knives designed to take heavy loads and impacts to the blade - martial level impacts.

Thus the Sebenza is inferior in that regard. Again - is this a functional inferiority - depends on what the user wants in a knife. Just like for example having a low resistance to corrosion isn't a functional inferiority to me because I don't care about that aspect - this doesn't mean L6 is inferior to 440C in terms of resistance to rusting though.

-Cliff
 
I agree with Mr. Stamp. The flipping issue has been discussed on a lot of threads. Some things brought out by others is that many people flick their sebenzas w/o any problem. Why then does CRK not warranty this action?.. and...How can CRK know a knife has been flipped? Some people believe that it is not possible to tell if a knife has been flipped. Why is this activity, that is hard if not impossible to detect, not under warrentee?...CRK has refused to give an answer. My opinion is that it's a "back door policy" allowing CRK to escape from doing any warrantee work they don't want to do. It's a common business practice.

However, if you believe CRK, then since you can buy a $30 CRKT designed to flip, the fact you cannot flip a sebenza puts the knife out of the "hard use" category. This may not be a design flaw, but how can a knife designed for "hard use" not take flipping?

However, if you believe those who happily flip their sebenzas and say it's not a problem, since flipping is not covered under warranty, plus CRK won't fully explain the issue, this puts the CRK warranty out of the "best in the business" category.

But then, these opinions are certainly not popular nor the accepted wisdom of this forum, thus they are probably wrong :)
 
Alan Elishewitz once wrote a detailed treatise in Blade magazine as to why people should not flip open knives with force.
 
Boink said:
Alan Elishewitz once wrote a detailed treatise in Blade magazine as to why people should not flip open knives with force.

It only takes one maker to say the opposite, and then every other one is simply admitting his products are directly inferior in that regard. As more and more production knives are being made which can handle this use, it becomes harder and harder for high end knives to still cry abuse.

-Cliff
 
I read that treatise by Elishewitz and thought it was whiny and bunk. His argument wasn't compelling and I though his position was insane since part of his market is tactical style knives. Even if he belived it he should have kept it to himself for the sake of his career.

What I found more interesting is some past cryptic remarks from knifemakers about how keeping a folder tight over time takes some tricks, one of which is the material and hardness of your stop pins vs. the blade, the use of spacers and properly placed fastners.
 
I agree, the "flipping voids warrenty" is silly overly protective policy, there is no objective way to say if they knife has been flipped 1x or 1000x, also how much force opening equals "flipping"??? If I open my Sebenzas ( I have 2, lg & sm) 3/4 of way with thumb then "flick" rest of the way to not strain my thumb, does that mean I " legally flipped" ? Or does "flipping " mena you flick from 1/2 way open or 1/4 open, what is "legal definition" here, also how HARD do you flick your wrist? Ect. Obviously no way to know.
However also I don't think "lesser warrenty" equals to "lesser construction," if columbia River covers flipping thats because it is easier to replace $30 knife then $400 knife, not because it is truly tougher. OK so the "lesser warrenty" puts Sebenza out of "hard usage " category LEGALLY........... but if you crash in the woods and you truly need a knife for survival scenario do you really want your CRKT over your Sebenza because the CRKT has a better warrenty??? In the end the warrenty issue is legalese, it is problem yes, I wish it was not so wishy washy yes. But for me the consistent stories by members here of Sebenza's reliability in "hard usage" scenarios, they are the best indicator of performance, I trust collective experience over the warrenty.
Martin
 
Back
Top