Large Regular Sebenza Review

I clean and oil my Sebenzas regularly. I find it hard if not impossible to flip open my Sebenzas. Personally, I really appreciate the fact that CRK will make a left hand folder on a regular basis. I think the flipping thing it moot. CRK is not going to change their position and those that feel CRK's products are inferior are not likely to change their position either. If flipping is an important criteria for buying a knife, then one should avoid CRK. I compare my Sebenzas to my DDR's and they both seem to be pretty solidly built. I'm no engineer but I think that the Seb should be able to handle flipping. I can't for the life of me flip open my large Seb. Anyway I suppose that this issue will linger. :eek: ;) :p
 
martin j said:
Ido you really want your CRKT over your Sebenza because the CRKT has a better warrenty???

You are supposed to evaluate your equipment before you have to depend on it. Thus you test out the CRKT and see if it is damaged under said conditions and if it is then you get it replaced under the warrenty. If you test your Sebenza and it fails, then you have to buy a new one or pay to get it replaced. Fairly big difference there. If I buy a new car the warrenty isn' just llegalese, the parts are guaranteed to function under specific circumstances for a specific period of time. If the cars engine was only guaranteed for 1000 km would this not make a rather large impact on the sales - would you listen to the salesmen who said, yeah but that's just the warrenty the engines are solid - we don't warrenty them though. Excellent, next car please.

-Cliff
 
I love my Sebenzas! But, if it's a Hard Use, "Flip Till you Drop" kinda knife you are looking for, I will go for a Strider AR or GB. Strider guys don't care if you flip your knife all day long, they will repair or replace it if it fails for ANY reason! Now THAT'S a warranty thats hard to beat! ( Plus they sound really cool when you flip them open....THWACK!! :D )
 
I too think this argument is "beat to death." I can flick my sebenza, not very easy, but I can... and I just do not worry about it. just because I can flick it, does not mean I do or need to. I mean common... really what is the worst that can happen? so you have to pay $100 for a knife that is well worth it after years of service, right? that $100 is still better spent then buying a new, less dependable knife for $100. how many knives are out there that compare to a sebenza for $100?????? how much can a stop pin and bushing cost? there is not many knife makers that will allow to to take apart the knife and clean it, and still warrant work later on. I think the field strip part of the sebenza warranty is great. I love you take my sebenza apart, clean it, lube it, and put it back together (feels great!). can you send other knives back to be refinished for around $30? nope, you have to buy another knife... maybe the same knife (maybe with more flaws??), but it is not your old broken in "go to" knife. when it comes down to it, if CRK says "send me $100 to fix your broken down, well used, and dependable sebenza"... I will happily send the money to them.

just my 2 cents. take it or leave it. I'll hang with CRK any day for a sebenza :)

thanks,

iubigred007
 
The ability to take apart the blade and also have it reconditioned are two things that all sebenza lovers tout. They could be seen as a sign of a flawed knife.

If its such a hard use knife, why do so many people have to send it back to the factory. I have many knives that have 20 years plus use w/o any need to be reconditioned. I have a 100 year old slipjoint that works perfectly.

Some knife makers are very proud to the way their knives are made to reject dirt and not need cleaning. The washer-bushing assembly construction has been indicated by some knife makers as a dirt collector and thus specifically avoided. Personally, I've taken apart sypercos to fix them, benchmades to see how they were made, but I've never needed to take a knife apart to clean it. I've gotten some dirty dirt filled knives. Soap, water, a brush and it'll all wash away.
 
if its such a hard use knife, why do so many people have to send it back to the factory.

I'm not sure where you get your impression from. Care to share numbers? Here's my impression: 50% of new striders are sent back to the factory for problem fixes.


I think I agree with both of you but you are talking about different things. I'm not sure I've ever needed to take apart a knife for cleaning that a wash/scrub/etc. wouldn't pretty much cure. But by some, including myself, liek the ability of easily take it apart an clean it in that manner if we wish to.

the washer-bushing assembly construction has been indicated by some knife makers as a dirt collector

The only places I've noticed dirt buildup is on the side of the blade where the lock bar slides across. I would like an intellectual explanation why why it would be any worse collecter than any other type of folding knife. In fact I think it would be superior because the tight tolerances allowed specifically by the use of the bushing.
 
If you look very closely you will see a serrated blue cone on the blade of each Sebenza. This little thigy is the latest in knife technology. See... you use your THUMB to open the knife! I know it SEEMS difficult at first... Give it a try! Soon you'll see how useful that wierd opposing digit can be!

I think this issue is pretty open and shut. Look... WE ALL play with out knives! That's why were knife dorks! "Flipping" your knife is just one man's playing method. IT DOES NOT work better than the thumb lug. Most folks use the lug, then flip it the rest of the way out. You don't "have" to do it. It is totally unnecessary. It is simpli something you "like" to do! Personally, I like to carve Marlyn Manson lyrics into my chest with my Sebanzas! I'm GOOD TO GO (as far as warranty issues take me). There are two ways to look at a sebenza, be a shopper, an owner, or the interested. These two ways are:

1- with the knowledge of these and other internet forums.
2- with the knowledge the guarantee card enclosed with each CRK.

1. These forums and the people in them posess a great power. We are the ones who count and we have been given the power to express our opinions, intelligent or not, informed or not, to THOUSANDS! If I had a problem with a Sebenza, I'd send it back to CRK with the FULL expectation that it would be made right FREE. If they acused me of abuse, I would deny it and demand proof. I would DEFINATELY discuss it here on the forums. Chris Reeve Knives would notice this discussion on their forum. I DO NOT abuse my knives, and would NOT be happy. There would be snorting and fuming and exclamation points used so I could say "sh!t" and all that stuff! It would be "bad press" for the small company. THere would be a thousand views and 50+ posts... People would raise an eyebrow. They WOULD knowingly lose a few customers, and then, if not before... They would make it sway to the best interest of all parties.

2. "This knife is Guaranteed for life. It is designed for a specific purpose. Should this knife fail after purchase by original user, due to faulty workmanship or materials, such defects will be made good free of cost. The right is reserved to make good such defects either by repair of replacement. This guarantee does not cover natural materials, incorrect applications, neglect or abuse. Any modifications that are made to the knife after it has left our workshop will void this guarantee. This knife will be your most trustworthy companion, helper, defender. Look after it and it will look after you."

This warranty is EXTREMELY vague...then it gets all mushy on you! The warranty is designed more to cover their a$$ than help sell the knife.

The opposite is Strider... to me the warranty is their ONLY appealing aspect! "You break it, We fix it!" OUTSTANDING!!! Going by the posts on this forum, the Strider SnG would be the biggest flop in history if NOT for that warranty! It seems to be heavily relied upon... and made good (after only a six month wait!). I certainly cant think of many people who have found their CRK folder to be in the least bit defective. People don't find much wrong with their sebenzas... mechanically.

Personally I believe that if there were a problem with the Sebenza I use hard, open and close waaaay tooo often and have carried everywhere for years, developed a problem, Chris and his shop would make it good... whether it takes some convincing or not!

One thing that is really freaking me out is Cliff Stamps posts. Cliff, you're a bonafide knife dude and your talking about a piece of paper! Legal issues! As long as were gonna play "Tea Party" I request Chai with cream and one lump. There is A LOT MORE WORK involved in the making of a Sebenza than meets the eye, and certainly more than most knives in any price range. (Let us not forget just HOW expensive a seb can get!) There is a HUGE difference in replacing a Sebenza for free and a CRKT cast and stamped out in Taiwan! Is it not understandable to you that it takes a little more a$$ coverage? Think of it as insurance. The higher the cost of replacement, the higher the insurance! These words, these documents... they are there to cover themselves. Custom makers can boast whatever they want... NOBODY REALLY USES THEM!!!

I feel that these forums really hold the evidence that The Sebenza is tried and true... That CRK service is outstanding, that mechanical problems are almost non-existant... and in every case all parties end up happy.
 
archieblue said:
"Flipping" your knife is just one man's playing method. IT DOES NOT work better than the thumb lug.

That really isn't the point, the main issue is the lower durability in regards to similar and much more stressful impacts seen in use. The Sebenza automatically fails th spine whack test for example, as any such test voids the warrenty.

There is a HUGE difference in replacing a Sebenza for free and a CRKT cast and stamped out in Taiwan! Is it not understandable to you that it takes a little more a$$ coverage?

That arguement rings hollow because other makers commented they would not charge for similar issues on their knives of similar and higher cost.

-Cliff
 
So Cliff, with all due respect to your superior intellect :rolleyes: , I think that maybe the fact that Chris doesn't want you to play in his sandbox and the fact that he doesn't bend over backwards to kiss your bottom may be affecting your objectivity. No I don't have a lot of letters after my name but I use CRK products at work to help save peoples lives in really nasty situations everyday and the performance of CRK products has yet to let me down. I don't give a rats bottom about a warranty, I need a knife I have faith in and CRK fits that role for my purposes The crappy supplies that the hospital makes available for my use should be against the law. :p
 
Cliff Stamp said:
That really isn't the point, the main issue is the lower durability in regards to similar and much more stressful impacts seen in use. The Sebenza automatically fails th spine whack test for example, as any such test voids the warrenty.

Cliff, this does not make sense to me. Please explain. What is the correlation between flipping and stressful impacts seen in use? Also, what does the spine wack test have to do with it?
 
Richard, very nice review. One comment about the clip. It is supposed to fit in its pocket very tightly so that no play will ever develop. I agree with you about the hex fitting the screws.
 
JoHnYKwSt, When I said that the clip doesn't fit into it's pocket quite right, I meant the pocket machined into the handle slab, not ones pants pocket. As far as keeping the knife in your pocket, it does an excellent job at that. And the clip not fitting into its machined pocket is borderline nit picking, it is off by .0005" to .001" at most.

As a side note, I am sorry I brought up the spine whack, didn't realize it would start a "minor conflict". It just seems to me that CRK's warranty and the quality of the knife itself, while related are not the same issue. Best Regards, Richard
 
It seems this thread has developed into the typical "Sebenza bashing" that is so often seen---by people that at least allegedly should know better.

Anyone who has stripped down a Sebenza for cleaning and closely examined the pivot area should be able to see the incredible strength and workmanship of the bushing and bronze washers. It's the only folder I know of where you simply tighten down the pivot screw all the way. The "tension" is built in due to the precise machining.

Also, it's the only folder with a stop pin that is adjustable for wear--simply loosen the screw and rotate it a bit. That would adjust for any incremental wear that might occur even with the dreaded "flicking". Chris Reeve happens to be philosophically opposed to any flicking with any knife feeling that it places unnecessary stress on the pivot/stop pin area.

One of my friends is a mechanical engineer with a BS and MS and is as well a PE in NY and Mass. We discussed this very issue a year or two ago, and he sort of chuckled, saying that a first year mech. engineering student could see that hard, persistant flicking would be ultimately damaging to the stop pin/pivot area. The fact that some makers/manufacturers choose to warranty such conduct has no relevancy to the issue.

Just my thoughts on the issue. :rolleyes:
 
JoHnYKwSt said:
What is the correlation between flipping and stressful impacts seen in use? Also, what does the spine wack test have to do with it?

The impats seen from flipping are very low, even if done very hard, the impact is just due to the kinetic energy of the blade, which is low because the blade doesn't weigh very much. Just consider flicking the blade open hitting someone with the spine, it isn't a blow that would leave you seriously injured.

In harder use, knives can be subjected to loads which are many times higher, forces well over 100 lbs, and which are applied very rapidly and dnamically. Not to mention then martial aspects which lead to Spydercos very high level of lock ratings for such blades.

Yes if you just use your knife for lighter work this isn't an issue, but then it is kind of overkill to use a Sebenza class knife to simply cut paper when a $1 Olfa will do it better for longer and is mor versatile for that type of work in general. The only things high level knives have over such blades is the ability to handle harder work (or be more versatile like multi-bladed stockmans, or SAK's).

The spine whack is above the inertial opening in regards to impact, because then you are using the entire blade so there is more mass, plus you are pivioting from the end, which again increases the energy of the impact, but again compared to general use, it isn't that severe.

And of course in both cases, its trivial to find much cheaper knives which can easily handle both. Gone is the time when makers as a whole regarded such usages as abusive, once even one maker is willing to say my knives can do that, then every other one still stating the old line is a direct admission of inferiority.

-Cliff
 
Well, I love my Sebenzas and (for disclosure should I ever need warranty work) I never flip any knives. Just no desire. But I do have one problem with my Sbbies that I don't have with other carry knives --- they often get a coin caught in them. Fron the back side and occassionally it is a little difficult to get the coin out and the blade open. I suppose it could happen with other folders but it doesn't seem to. But it is not uncommon on the Seb and I have to make a point of keeping change out of my RH pants pocket when I carry it there.

Other than that, it is superb.
 
Richard, I know what you meant. When I said pocket I was referring to the pocket that the clip fits into on the handle, not a pants pocket. Sorry for the misleading term.

Cliff, I would argue that flicking and spine wacking imparts different types of wear on a knife, with spine wacking creating no wear. So I think they are not the same.
 
They are not the same, but both are related to stresses seen in use and both both void the warrenty of the Sebenza, and thus illustrate a direct inferiority in that regard. Spine whacks stress the lock / blade interface, and flicks the stop pin, same basic interaction on two different surfaces.

-Cliff
 
To lead off onto another track, I bought a large regular sebenza as a Christmas present (for myself of course). It was posted from the US on November 1st. Lately parcels have been taking about 10 days to arrive downunder from the US. Yesterday, I gave it up as lost and asked the dealer to let me know when the insurance should be claimed. The dealer has a good reputation on ebay (100% feedback) and really put in the effort to find out what had happened to it. Would you believe, he found that it had only left New Jersey on December 2nd. I'll never complain about how slow our Post Office in Australia is again! On the bright side though I know it has not been lost. :)

By the way Cliff, I love reading your reviews and opinions on knives. I may not always agree with your perspective but that doesn't mean I won't read everything your write. When my Sebenza arrives (and I'm not allowed to have it until Christmas Day), I will make sure I write and let you know how wrong you are - but then again my knives are always better than anyone else's - so there. :p
 
Cliff:
I too enjoy your input and opinions that you post on this forums even if I don't always agree with you. I suppose that if you take any knife and flick it open constantly, eventually it will fail. I'd like to hear about specific cases where Sebenzas have been flicked to death and how many flicks did it take? Or maybe you can rig up a machine and test two knives side by side, automatically flicking each knife say two to four times a minute and record the number of flickings required. I like to see a side by side comparison between a large Sebenza and a Strider. That way you can say (and this is just a hypothetical result) that the Seb failed after 4,000 flicks but the Strider lasted for 10,000 flicks, therefore confirming that the Sebenza is inferior in the flicking department. It just seems to me that inferiority is being implied here without objective evidence. Comparing the stop pins on knives that I own, A large Sebenza, a small Apogge (Darrel Ralph) and a large Evolution framelock (John W. Smith), the Sebenza seems to have the beefiest stop pin. One time I was talking to Mr. Ralph and I asked him why automatics were so much more expensive than manual openning knives and his reply was that automatics had to be made with stonger stop pins and a heavier frame to handle the extra stress that the spring openning places on the knife. I'd really like to hear from all the people who have had Sebenzas fail and have not gotten reasonable assistance from Reeve and Co.
Not to mention the fact that flicking open a knife in Calfornia is technically a felony unless the blade is less than 2 inches long. :eek:
Course we all know it's only illegal if you get caught. ;)
 
I have spined whacked my Sebenzas and on occasion, flicked them open. As far as I can tell they are no worse for the wear. Cliff is playing a semantics game when he calls them "inferior." He is saying the warranty implies inferiority, while in reality we don't know if the Sebenza is inferior or not to other knives whose warranty covers damage resulting from spine whacking and flicking. The only real conclusion I can draw from this is that the CRK WARRANTY is inferior to the other knifemaker's WARRANTIES.

If Cliff has some empirical evidence of Sebenza mechanical or material inferiority compared to other folders, I would be happy to hear about it. Otherwise the whole discussion about Sebenza inferiority is moot.
 
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