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Has anyone had a blade/handle failure with a Laredo or a Natchez?
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Large Survival Knife vs. Hawk
- Thread starter ctg1231
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As requested, here's a couple pics of the new bowies:
No flash.
With flash.
Left to right the blades are: 1) Natchez; 2) Bagwell Helle's Belle; 3) Laredo with Canvas Micarta; 4) Bagwell Stealth; 5) Bagwell Gambler.
I left out the Laredo with faux cocobolo because, except for the handle material, it is identical to the one in canvas micarta. Also, the wood handle Laredo is currently greased up inside a cardboard sheath.
On the left of the first pic you can see my ridgeback's ridge.
No flash.
With flash.
Left to right the blades are: 1) Natchez; 2) Bagwell Helle's Belle; 3) Laredo with Canvas Micarta; 4) Bagwell Stealth; 5) Bagwell Gambler.
I left out the Laredo with faux cocobolo because, except for the handle material, it is identical to the one in canvas micarta. Also, the wood handle Laredo is currently greased up inside a cardboard sheath.
On the left of the first pic you can see my ridgeback's ridge.
I've actually never heard of a blade failure, except the tip busting off from people who were throwing them. I had some handles crack, but that's the nature of wooden handles. I don't know why people freak about the cable. They've been made that way for a couple hundred years, except with a piece of steel rod.
Wow... that's awesome. You said you were getting rid of the stealth right? How much? Email: seshomauru@msn.com
crossada
Platinum Member
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i think there has been one BF member who had the handle come loose when the wire assembly broke. That is the only one i remember. The way i understand it this is a more expensive way to make a knife but is done to give a better fighting knife balance. Matt Lamey commented if done correctly this makes for a very good design. However if abuse is something you expect to see with your knives a busse or what not is probably the way to go
Also worth mentioning that CS took care of the guy too.
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Well, in the spirit of this particular thread, the user would also be carrying a hawk, which would be the preferred tool for chopping. If you don't carry a hawk, I agree that a Busse BWM would be hard to beat.
On the other hand, batoning does not place great stress on the blade/handle junction of a knife if you strike the blade near the point of contact with the target material.
I see the bowie as being useful for clearing a campsite, collecting kindling, other camp chores, and as a last ditch defense against the unlikely (but always possible) attack of a black bear or cougar. We have a lot of bear and cougar around Los Alamos; sometimes they are even spotted roaming the residential areas.
On the other hand, batoning does not place great stress on the blade/handle junction of a knife if you strike the blade near the point of contact with the target material.
I see the bowie as being useful for clearing a campsite, collecting kindling, other camp chores, and as a last ditch defense against the unlikely (but always possible) attack of a black bear or cougar. We have a lot of bear and cougar around Los Alamos; sometimes they are even spotted roaming the residential areas.
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Yeah, I love my Larado too, I've been using it on my last few camping trips. -But WOW! the Natchez is one impressive looking blade! ...I don't think I've heard of anyone using them for much more than the occasional cutting demonstration though.
I really like the look of that custom handle job you have pictured above too!
Thanks, stylish and functional. That knife has gone through hell in the past months, ex;
In a bowie there is so much variation between models specific for ultimate toughness and mass(Busse) and ultimate weapon (Helle's Belle), everything else is a compromise. A bowie that can chop is great, but the Laredo is very quick for back cuts and thrust cuts as well as sport use. Very much a weapon.
Getting back to that Natchez, it's weight matches the BWM but it's handling is quite different. Although it has a very high flat grind and thin edge, for sporting(chopping and such) it is less than desirable for putting that weight to good use.
Bring my rambling back on track, my favorite hawk for wilderness is the Trail Hawk, or similar designs with hammer polls. It would be great to hear some advantages of your pictured model in this use. It looks to be a great smasher!
My true belief is both hawk and bowie are historical American icons. I can understand the preferance for either.
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- Dec 18, 2008
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I live in the Philippines and hike through a lot of mountains. i find that a in places where there are a lot of bamboo and tall grass, a kukhri is better than either a hawk or a long large knife. When i'm tired, from long hikes, my precision goes to hell, thus, i tend to miss whatever i'm aiming at with my tomahawk. With a kukhri's longer edge, this isn't the case. On the other hand, a long knife like the trailmaster will need several more chops to get through the bamboo that blocks the trail. Bamboo tends to just absorbs chops. A machete does good through the grass and bamboo but i find that the edges are too soft and it flexes too much. The local bolos, with their thick and forward heavy blades also do well but i hate the wooden sheaths and horn handles. they never feel right. Thus, for me, a kukhri is the best balance, between these tools, with a smaller knife for precision work. BTW, my kukhri is a cs gurkha kukhri sk5. (i dislike the handle but it's better than wood or bone)
As for self defense, it's easier for me to conceal and justify carrying a compact .45 and a cs rajah II than any of the above options.
As for self defense, it's easier for me to conceal and justify carrying a compact .45 and a cs rajah II than any of the above options.
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Of course you can't beat a gun for self defense. Still, not a bad idea to have a big knife or a hawk on your belt. These are mult-purpose tools/weapons that greatly improve your chances of surviving in the wild should Mr. Murphy ever step up and tap you on the shoulder. 
I've carried a small axe and a esee4 (or like size) knife for a while now. I've done different combos including larger and smaller axes/knives, machetes, hawks, and various other tools. I try to be a minimalist, in terms of gear, where I can without going overboard and like carrying things that specialize in one area but can handle other chores as well.
In the instance of camping, regardless of season, I've found the small axe/esee4 combo to be the best balance of speciality and generality in terms of work done. After butchering some rabbits from my in-laws farm, I found the blade with the dimensions of an esee4 to be a bit of a headache. A thinner narrower blade would have been preferred on the smaller animal. Doable, sure. However, it was the first time I looked at that blade and thought "I have the wrong tool for this job". Larger animals, I'm satisfied with its performance.
Concerning camp site preparation and general duties: I can process an appropriate amount of wood with minimal effort and maximum safety using my combo. That being said, I can process a small forrest in comparison with a larger axe but there are trade offs and I simply don't need that sort of ability for my uses when camping.
The self defense discussion is one I enjoy having over a beer or cigar but one I'm careful not to take too seriously. Some tools are better than others in this regard but the sacrifices required to bring a 17th century broadsword into the woods to protect myself from bears more efficiently than an axe, just aren't worth it. Processing wood with a sword would be... awkward.
The hawk is where I struggle. It's simply not as efficient as a small axe and the weight benefits are negligible. The biggest boon for the hawk is the ease of replacing its handle. That alone, in a survival situation, might trump all other factors. In normal activities that feature goes unappreciated but it certainly wouldn't in the right unfortunate circumstance. I have been taking a hawk with me lately but it often (nearly always) stays attached to my pack. Perhaps that's not a bad thing. I do keep a larger folder as a backup to my fixed blade. Open ended thought there with no specific conclusion drawn.
Closing: A mantra often repeated amongst people like us: "Choose the tool for your mission". No matter how many times I try to improve on that by searching out the "BEST" __________, that phrase always comes full circle and responds, "told you so". I can tell you that if I had to process a lot of wood for a long period time, I'd like a larger axe. If I were processing smaller game all the time, a smaller knife would be desired. If I were clearing brush, a machete please. Surviving forever, field fixable tools would be my primary concern. All of this may not help anybody... Perhaps thats the ultimate point. Figure out your mission. Pick your tools. Don't be afraid to be wrong.
In the instance of camping, regardless of season, I've found the small axe/esee4 combo to be the best balance of speciality and generality in terms of work done. After butchering some rabbits from my in-laws farm, I found the blade with the dimensions of an esee4 to be a bit of a headache. A thinner narrower blade would have been preferred on the smaller animal. Doable, sure. However, it was the first time I looked at that blade and thought "I have the wrong tool for this job". Larger animals, I'm satisfied with its performance.
Concerning camp site preparation and general duties: I can process an appropriate amount of wood with minimal effort and maximum safety using my combo. That being said, I can process a small forrest in comparison with a larger axe but there are trade offs and I simply don't need that sort of ability for my uses when camping.
The self defense discussion is one I enjoy having over a beer or cigar but one I'm careful not to take too seriously. Some tools are better than others in this regard but the sacrifices required to bring a 17th century broadsword into the woods to protect myself from bears more efficiently than an axe, just aren't worth it. Processing wood with a sword would be... awkward.
The hawk is where I struggle. It's simply not as efficient as a small axe and the weight benefits are negligible. The biggest boon for the hawk is the ease of replacing its handle. That alone, in a survival situation, might trump all other factors. In normal activities that feature goes unappreciated but it certainly wouldn't in the right unfortunate circumstance. I have been taking a hawk with me lately but it often (nearly always) stays attached to my pack. Perhaps that's not a bad thing. I do keep a larger folder as a backup to my fixed blade. Open ended thought there with no specific conclusion drawn.
Closing: A mantra often repeated amongst people like us: "Choose the tool for your mission". No matter how many times I try to improve on that by searching out the "BEST" __________, that phrase always comes full circle and responds, "told you so". I can tell you that if I had to process a lot of wood for a long period time, I'd like a larger axe. If I were processing smaller game all the time, a smaller knife would be desired. If I were clearing brush, a machete please. Surviving forever, field fixable tools would be my primary concern. All of this may not help anybody... Perhaps thats the ultimate point. Figure out your mission. Pick your tools. Don't be afraid to be wrong.
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For a woodsman's usage I think an 18-19" Hudson Bay axe and a 10"-12" Bowie would be optimum in North America. A good lock blade in the pocket would go without saying as it comes with the pants pockets. The Hudson Bay style is a blend of an axe, a hawk, and a carpenter's hatchet--the best all-rounder in my opinion. I like the Council Tool head rehafted with a "wood" center wedge and a metal cross wedge. The Bowie is better for clearing brush, butchering, skinning, and self defense. The 3" lock blade or pocket knife is the utility knife. Did I just describe what early North American woodsman came to favor?
The Hudson Bay style is a blend of an axe, a hawk, and a carpenter's hatchet--the best all-rounder in my opinion. I like the Council Tool head rehafted with a "wood" center wedge and a metal cross wedge. The Bowie is better for clearing brush, butchering, skinning, and self defense. The 3" lock blade or pocket knife is the utility knife. Did I just describe what early North American woodsman came to favor?It is all about location. South Mississippi, swamps,rivers, beaver ponds vines, thick undergrowth & briars , then your hard wood & pine wood hills. I have my Trex, all around utility/survivor/ bushcraft & Gzilla both by PMoore, that are many times more appropriate for my neck of woods than a tomahawk/or combo
It is all about location. South Mississippi, swamps,rivers, beaver ponds vines, thick undergrowth & briars , then your hard wood & pine wood hills. I have my Trex, all around utility/survivor/ bushcraft & Gzilla both by PMoore, that are many times more appropriate for my neck of woods than a tomahawk/or combo
wish you recovery soon .
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I wonder which is more effective for dispatching zombie threads.
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Beckerhead #42
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Beckerhead #42
Thank you & GOD Bless. I am at hand Dr. right now. I had a titanium rt femur implant from a bad wreck Dec. 16 2011 & that kept me out of the woods till I almost lost my mind. It took me about 2 yrs to get halfway back to myself from a back break on Dec 03 & a cage implanted in ny lower back, & cables running through spinal column to a neuro simulator in hip. June 16th cut rt hand, pinky & ring finger they had to put all the tendons,ligaments& grafted nerves. Yes, your post picked my spirits up, hope they take some of my fi.gets out of this cast. ok, got that off my chest; was at creek.chopping yesterday, so thank the LORD I am not an invalid
I wonder which is more effective for dispatching zombie threads.
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Beckerhead #42
ha ha! Neither, scalpels &brain surgeons
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What Hawk is that?For chopping, the tomahawk will out chop the big knife.
However, that's no reason not to carry the big knife as well (especially if talking an RTAK, ESEE Junglas, Busse Bushwhacker, etc) as they are relatively thin, and do the knife stuff quite well, while the hawk remains the chopper and hammer.
Wildmike is right though, a kukri will outchop the hawk. I don't consider kukri to be "big knives", as I believe they are in a class of their own. When I bought my first, I bought it with the intent of replacing three tools: the hatchet, the machete, and the big knife. It succeeeded brilliantly.
Where the hawk shines over the kukri is in fighting. True, I wouldn't want to get hit with any kukri, but the ones that are biased toward fighting and come close to that magic 1 ounce per inch, don't do as well as tools, and don't penetrate as deep as a heavier kukri or hawk. See, the hawk concentrates most of its weight in the head, and will typically have a much shorter edge than a kukri, knife, and even the hatchet, so the bit will penetrate deep. The other big advantage the hawk has -- primarily in a fight -- is the ability to hook. A kukri isn't totally incapable of such, but is nowhere near as good as a hawk is at it.
Infi-del
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I mean if I have my choice of what tools to bring with me... a small axe like a Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe or Scandi Forest Axe, a fixed handle Silky Saw, A 6" field knife, and a Leatherman. Can't imagine anything I couldn't take care of with those.