Lawnmower Blade Advice in the Blade Mag

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TekSec

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You heard it from Wayne Goddard himself on Page 43 of the Oct 2009 Blade magazine, he hasn't seen a lawnmower blade that couldn't be hardened! Dang it, I knew all ya'll were nuts! Throwin' all my money away on CPM-154, 1084 and O-1 when I could have been scrounging steel from Sears!!!:jerkit: Now for my next project, some lawnmower blade / Home Depot steel damascus....:rolleyes:
 
You know I have a good friend that owns a lawn service and when he replaces the blades he always asks if I want them. I usually decline so one day he ask why, We got one up to around 1800 degress left it for awhile and quenched in water. Both extremes on the heating side and the quenching side, I then proceded to bend it in my vice 90 degrees without it breaking, He told me then, that stuffs so hard it wont break? I just said " Yea I guess it is",LOL I guess they dont sell good lawnmore blades in Bama? I will stick to my 1095,Charlie
 
You heard it from Wayne Goddard himself on Page 43 of the Oct 2009 Blade magazine, he hasn't seen a lawnmower blade that couldn't be hardened! Dang it, I knew all ya'll were nuts! Throwin' all my money away on CPM-154, 1084 and O-1 when I could have been scrounging steel from Sears!!!:jerkit: Now for my next project, some lawnmower blade / Home Depot steel damascus....:rolleyes:

maybe if you layer it with some 1095 you could harden it up.
 
maybe if you layer it with some 1095 you could harden it up.
Well that's taking the easy way. I'm pretty sure it'll be plenty hard. I know I dropped some of that there steel on my foot one time and it was plenty hard. :eek::rolleyes:
 
Well I think it's time to give a little back to my trustee MTD Yardman lawn tractor. A pair of custom D-2 blades with vine pattern filework ( hollow ground ofcourse ).
 
Maybe we should have a lawnmower blade contest. Design and build a custom set for your lawnmower:D
 
err... far be it from me to point out your error... didja quench it in goop ?

ha haaa just teasin bros





G;)
 
how is it that blade magazine would stoop to publishing this kind of nonsense? i'm sure mr. goddard is a very nice man but...... gosh i've hit rocks and such and bent mower blades they obviously arent hardened.

jake
 
You see its nonsence like this that I believe seriously mis guides people. I am in no way a expert at anything!!!! espically knife making but its stuff like this that miss guides new makers. I know because I have read it and followed it and wondered the whole time why my results where not coming out well. Now there may very well be good lawn mower blades to use but how the hell do you find them? Some are made in China from what Ive seen, and most arent even marked. I am a firm beliver that you dont have to have a million dollar shop to make good knives, but you have to know what your using to make them. First book I ever bought was 50 D.K.S, I then went out and spent 200.00 on leaf spring, that was full of stress cracks, what the hell? I was quenching in goop and it didnt make sence why my blade wouldnt hold and edge.I could have gotten out easier buying good steel, Jesus thank goodness, I didnt read this article 2 years ago, I would have had a shop completely full of lawn mower blades. I just dont understand it? You know come to think about it its S%$#T like this that cost me MONEY,TIME, and HOURS trying to figure out what the hell I was doing wrong!
 
and too think his book is shoved down us new guys throats as the knife making bible!

jake
 
In defense of Wayne, he has years of experience. He has paid his dues, and has proved his ability. His statement on lawn mower blades hardenability may be like his estimate that the cost of setting up a knife shop is $50 .........Based on a time long in the past and inaccurate in today's world.

Now, in critique of Wayne. Just because he said something doesn't make everything he says the gospel truth. And, just because it was in print doesn't give it any more creditability. Wayne is what he is. A good smith with his own style....and his own methods. His recipes for goop quenchant, and how to HT certain steels are his own methods. They may not work for others, and they certainly are not universally accepted.

His book, "The $50 Knife Shop", is recommended to newbies for a couple of reasons. Mainly because it is readily available and reasonably priced. Also, because it covers the very basics in a no-nonsense manner that is easy for a newbie to understand. It shows how to make some simple equipment and how to do simple blade making procedures. It has been the startup guide for many smiths.
Is it a treatise on blade making....ABSOLUTELY NOT, but it covers the basics in a simple enough manner to get the job done. I recommend it because it is the only simple book for beginners. That is one reason I am working on writing a series of books with a little more modern information in them, and a more modern approach to HT.

As to lawn mower blades, I believe the subject has been answered in many forums and by many knowledgeable people to a sufficient degree to say that Wayne's' statement is very misleading and will cause a lot of heartache for many new makers that read the article.

Someone said, "Tell us how you really feel."
Well, I feel Wayne is wrong and should say so in a future column. I don't expect it, but I do expect a few letters to the editor on this subject. I am not stating that NO lawn mower blade is hardenable, just that most are not hardenable.....and an inexperienced smith may not be able to determine the difference.

Lawn mower blades are made to be soft enough to bend upon impact, to not be breakable in the most severe of impact situations, and to wear down slowly and be replaced every couple of years.
Knife blades are made to be unbendable, hard, will break under side load stress, and are meant to last for many years.
The types of metals used for these two very different needs are very different steels. Today, just as it is foolish to claim that all circular saw blades are L6, claiming that all lawn mower blades are hardenable steel is false. In actuality, both statements are far more likely to be wrong than right.

Stacy
 
"...Just because he said something doesn't make everything he says the gospel truth. And, just because it was in print doesn't give it any more creditability... "

This right here is the heart of this issue, and the one point to take from this thread if nothing else! I am honestly quite pleasantly surprised by the number of people posting here that are questioning the information, but I am also even more surprised that this hasn't turned into a flame war yet as I am certain many Kool-Aid drinkers who clutch books or articles like an autographed copy of the New Testament are indeed reading it. Stacy summed things up quite well by pointing out how what we feel about the person and their own knives is an entirely separate issue from what we feel about the information they broadcast for others. And we should be able to point out serious errors without inciting hostility; otherwise we can all hop back to the Middle Ages and simply burn anybody at the stake that attempts to bring about any enlightenment that may challenge our comfortable established dogma. And that is indeed the effect that this attitude has had on knifemaking, it has keep us in the middle ages claiming we are preserving tradition as an excuse for perpetuating ignorance.

Tell me, why is it that just because any of our favorite authors say something it automatically carries more weight? There are folks on these forums that have been making knives and studying steel their entire lives as well, yet if their advice contradicts that of the guy who is published it is not only wrong it is heretical. Hell for that matter, I have seen people say they cut and paste much of what I say, why? Why should any facts be more factual just because of the name attached to them? The facts are either good or bad, they are either verifiable and well supported with data or they are not. A fact is not more "factual" because of its pedigree, and we should all see how ridiculous that concept is.

And let's look at that prestige that lends so much credibility to a person. Perhaps 10% of what is printed in the knife magazines is useful fact based information (I think I am being generous), the rest is no different than the same sort of crap that sells the National Enquirer. You are fool if you don't realize that the number one qualification of any magazine article is entertainment! Sound, verifiable or factual information is so far down the list that is barely registers, the only consideration that it is probably given is in the context of whether it could generate any litigation if it is too far out there. How many fact based how-to books do you see when in the checkout line? You see plenty of dirt on the Royal family, you see “I gave birth to an alien baby”, or plenty of horoscopes, but you don’t see many technical manuals because they would be untouched and covered in dust. They wouldn’t do the most important thing- sell advertising by selling themselves.

The people who sell these types of periodicals are experts at what they do and they know what sells and that is why you will also always see things like “how to lose 200 lbs. in one week eating cake”, as opposed to “If you start now, and totally change your eating and exercise habits, in a year you may not be obese.” The first one is informational junk food, it easily sells itself by promising a magic secret that will give us what we want instantly with none of the work or sacrifice, and if we see but one pound less on the scales we will eagerly lie to ourselves about how that booklet was the best $1.50 we ever spent! This is why the guys who write about how you can make the best knives ever with only $20 and some easy to follow recipes are considered by so many to be the good guys, and the folks who tell you that you need to spend time and some money on quality basic equipment, if you want to get really good at any craft, are the elitist bad guys.

Why do we have articles telling us how to quench lawnmower blades on goop? Because anything in print has went unquestioned for so long that those who publish it know they can put out any information and still have it gobbled up. When whatever you say is the unquestioned gospel, you will eventually be able to say anything unquestioned. But the publishers are only doing what sells the best so in the end we need to look to ourselves for what we want to buy and what we accept as useful information. While this thread is very awkward and uncomfortable for many, me included, the consequences of never having this dialogue are much worse.

Once again, why is it considered a personal assault to question another maker’s information? This past weekend I was giving a very involved talk on rapiers and was totally botching the pronunciation of Italian terms, until one fellow in the crowd, who was familiar with Italian, had enough and corrected me. Was it humiliating and awkward? Hell yes! But I stopped right there and thanked him for the favor he had done me instead of allowing me to continue making a fool of myself for the sake of politeness and not questioning “the expert”. Now I have some more knowledge and the public will not be subjected to my uncorrected errors. I have good friendships that started by a person having the guts to stand up and question my information, I always figure that a person with that kind of honesty has to be worth knowing. They didn’t attack me for heresy, they didn’t shout me down, they just questioned me enough to prove it for themselves and everybody learned in the process.
 
Hell for that matter, I have seen people say they cut and paste much of what I say, why?

In my opinion Kevin, people quote you because you are a voice of reason, whose words are constructed in such a way as to impart wisdom, not sell snake oil. We're not worshiping the holy totem of Cashen, we're going to your explanations of things because they are often worded better, and more clearly, then we ourselves could do. At least that's where I stand on it.

In addition, while many other folks provide information about how to do something that includes an "if you hold your tongue just right" sort of attribution of their own skill and experience, you tend more often than not to deal in absolutes, numbers, and repeatable processes that when followed explicitly, yield the expected result. You know as well as I do that when something works as described, deviation from the "gospel" is not considered an option by many of the followers.

Why should any facts be more factual just because of the name attached to them? The facts are either good or bad, they are either verifiable and well supported with data or they are not. A fact is not more "factual" because of its pedigree, and we should all see how ridiculous that concept is.

Why should any knife be more valuable because of the name attached to it? As we've seen in recent threads here and in the "Custom & Handmade" forum, stock in a name carries quite a bit of value. That said, the reputation we build for ourselves through our actions and messages can raise or lower the value of our "stock".

The best I can hope to do is to make the things that I say and the things that I make be representative of the best of my knowledge and ability at the time I say or do them. I'd much rather have people disdain me because I'm not afraid to say I've moved on from a technique that I've found a better replacement for, or retract a previous statement as incorrect than to have them love me for any huckstering or snake oil sales I have concocted to support what I'm saying.

-d
 
"If you want to know more than other knifemakers perhaps you should stop getting all your information from other knifemakers."

:D
 
I would like to state at one time lawnmower blades may have been hardenable. Ten or fifteen years ago, or even twenty companies used steel that was applicable to the task involved. Today we have American companies sending jobs overseas to China to save a buck, why not use cheaper, unknown steel to make a lawnmower blade and save even more?
 
I think what I found the most amusing about the whole article was the fact that I read the letter and just laughed thinking "Wow, I can't believe someone actually asked that" only to read on and hear Mr. Goddard giving a very serious rhetoric as to what the person was possibly doing wrong, so on and so forth. I think it's horrible that a wide spread magazine wouldn't have someone who was up with the times. Days gone by are days gone by...just because "back in my day" something worked does not mean the world has stood still. The response from Stacy and Kevin as well as others is why I started this thread...maybe somewhere at some time, some one will search on Goddard, lawnmower blade and knife and see this before they waste their time.
 
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