Leaving Your Mark.

22-rimfire said:
I'm surprised that people actually care about "defacing" a tree (any tree?). I can see that attitude in a park, but out in the open woods, I see no big deal with it.
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But who actually owns those "open" woods? Either they are on private land, or they are public. If they are private, and the landowner/s have given consent to carve trees, leave your name, whatever, then have at it. That's their land and they can allow what they want.

But if they are public lands, then my approach it is that is a shared, communal resource, and that there is a responsibility to leave it in the best condition possible for others, and for future generations to be able to enjoy in as pristine a manner as possible. Public lands come with shared public responsibility, imo.
 
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Smithhammer, I understand the "leave no trace" or "leave only footprints". But trees are living things and if you want to call carvings into the tree bark as defacing a tree then so be it. But these things heal over with time. I find the initials carved into beech trees as kind of a time capsule. It does take some time as compared to spraying some paint onto something which disgusts me for the most part. Again, in a park, I say leave things as they are. In the open woods, few people care (even the owner) and initials do not cause a loss in value relative to timber. Trees are a resource; a living resource. They are there to be used and enjoyed for what they are.
 
22-rimfire said:
Smithhammer, I understand the "leave no trace" or "leave only footprints". But trees are living things and if you want to call carvings into the tree bark as defacing a tree then so be it. But these things heal over with time. I find the initials carved into beech trees as kind of a time capsule. It does take some time as compared to spraying some paint onto something which disgusts me for the most part. Again, in a park, I say leave things as they are. In the open woods, few people care (even the owner) and initials do not cause a loss in value relative to timber. Trees are a resource; a living resource. They are there to be used and enjoyed for what they are.
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I couldn't disagree more with this. There is no difference between carving into a tree or spray painting it. You are defacing it, regardless. As we are a part of nature, we should respect it -- doesn't matter if you're on private or public land.
 
Beyond respect, if that is not a motivator, my understanding is that damage to the protective layer of the bark may introduce harmful, even killing, elements to the tree. It would be helpful if an arborist weighed in here ... but my experience in property maintenance in general, encourages me to seal where branches are limbed or damage has occurred to bark.

Beyond damaging or killing a tree ... the defacing ...

As a lifelong camper, I respect those who go before and leave no trace (importantly including all waste). My primary camping is water access, simply because a destination that takes more effort (as in hiking distances) draws those who have valued and are much more likely to be protective of their environment. Not always, but a good predictor.

My question would be: Don't you love it as you breathe it in untouched as you experience the woodlands yourself? ... otherwise, why leave the beaten path at all? And, just because others have marked before you, can you not reach into yourself to show greater respect, something better? Who you are is best reflected in the wilderness by the way you treat it.
 
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The only thing I do is if I'm using an area that people camp in and there's a fire ring. I try to collect enough stuff for them to get a fire started and put it in a dry place in case they get there late or tired.
 
Translash, I don't leave "marks" personally since I was a kid. But I see no problem with someone carving their initials into a suitable tree. But as Stabman said, "make it a cool one". Do you think the owner of a property likes people building shelters? I sure don't want people hacking down trees and branches to play survival. Or building a fire camping....? Those dead trees are useful for various creatures. How do you feel about killing animals even if you eat them? They are part of nature too.

Along this vein, how do you think the owner of a property feels when people ride their ATVs all over their property making trails and ruts? Or people with 4x4's who purposely choose to drive on dirt roads after a rain and rut them out for the fun of it. Happens all the time. A few initials are nothing. What about fisherman who trample down the banks of streams in their quest for their chosen quarry? What about farmers having streams inside fenced areas to be essentially ruined by cattle? (Their property, right?) What about all these people who dump trash out in the woods? Initials are nothing. Things have to be kept in perspective.

Man minipulates nature for his own benefit. Some things get a bit extreme, but it is a matter of degree and perspective.
 
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If it is truly necessary, I will do what it takes. Otherwise, I see no reason to leave my mark. A specific individual may be able to 'leave a mark' in a harmless way, but it can be a mindset/attitude for others. 'Leaving ones mark' may seem harmless to some but it DOES have an overall cumulative effect on our planet. My 2c for what it's worth.
Peace
Out
Fred
 
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The classic "mark" in our society are grave stones. Folks, that rock came from somewhere. Probably a large quarry. That's a big mark. Humans have been leaving "marks" for eternity in their environment and one person will view said marks as a scourage and another will just see it as harmless fun or a record.

I just think you have to keep things in perspective and not get too excited about little things like carved initials in an appropriate tree. Carving your initials in Central Park might not be a good thing from my point of view. But out in the "woods" where there are litterally millions of trees, I see no big deal and actually enjoy looking at the initials and the care that went into carving them. To do it right, it takes some time.

I understand the philosophy of leaving no trace in nature and adhere to that line of thinking generally. But like many things, it can be taken to extremes whether it be the "leave only "foot prints" or painting vulgar graffiti on a bridge. I see the "pictures" painted in cities on walls and view it as as defacing property, but some view it as "art".
 
22-rimfire said:
I see the "pictures" painted in cities on walls and view it as as defacing property, but some view it as "art".
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That's because it is art. It's illegal art, but the legality of something doesn't define what it inherently is.
 
newadventure said:
If it is truly necessary, I will do what it takes. Otherwise, I see no reason to leave my mark. A specific individual may be able to 'leave a mark' in a harmless way, but it can be a mindset/attitude for others. 'Leaving ones mark' may seem harmless to some but it DOES have an overall cumulative effect on our planet. My 2c for what it's worth.
Peace
Out
Fred
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Well guess what? I ain't having any kids, so all of you who are have zero grounds to criticize if I build a shelter.

Procreation is a far bigger blight than anything I have, or ever will do to the planet.
 
stabman said:
Well guess what? I ain't having any kids, so all of you who are have zero grounds to criticize if I build a shelter.

Procreation is a far bigger blight than anything I have, or ever will do to the planet.
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Right there with ya brother! AMEN!
 
stabman said:
Well guess what? I ain't having any kids, so all of you who are have zero grounds to criticize if I build a shelter.

Procreation is a far bigger blight than anything I have, or ever will do to the planet.
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Please don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm talking about wastefully hacking down trees when other options exist, carving initials in old growth trees to one was there, leaving all kinds of trash about that ruins it for the next person, etc. Building a shelter is not the kind of thing I was referring to as your intention is to make use of it and I'm sure you would build it in a thoughtful manner. We all consume the planets resources, I just think being wasteful and inconsiderate of others is a poor way to "spend" our resources.
Peace
Fred
 
Truthfully I agree with leave no trace but I do like to arrange or organize rocks to show that a person has passed this way. Especially in really remote locations I see no harm in this and I love to find things like this. I might even leave a coin if I have one with me
It intrigues me to think of how long it may lay there undisturbed
 
Hi stabman ... those shelters are indeed cool, not to mention useful ... and if I happened upon them in my travels, I would think of the person who built them, and I would likely use them. To me, this is not defacing amongst the thousands of saplings under the canopy. Once, while roaming and camping up and down Vancouver Island, I came across the frame of a native sweat lodge and, to this day, I wonder who built it, who re-visits it, what is the history. You know, I think we all love the wilderness ... and lots of times words get in the way.
 
newadventure said:
We all consume the planets resources, I just think being wasteful and inconsiderate of others is a poor way to "spend" our resources.
Peace
Fred
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I have to agree with you on that.
taldesta said:
Hi stabman ... those shelters are indeed cool, not to mention useful ... and if I happened upon them in my travels, I would think of the person who built them, and I would likely use them.
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You know, every time I've been back to the bigger shelter I find signs that others have used it, and it makes me happy. The fire-pit has been used by many who have passed through, and I like to think it has helped keep others from accidentally having a fire get out of control.:thumbup:
I've even found some shotgun casings which lead me to believe it has been used as a hunting blind as well.

What bugs me most is when people leave garbage in natural settings; they should cart it back out with them. I've never found the need to leave junk behind.
 
I always camp with my dog companions, and their noses are phenomenal. Chicken bones in the bushes .... plus anything human stuff not buried ... and I have learned through experience to go the extra mile to avoid easy access sites. Through 23 US states and Canada coast to coast ... camping ... I have loved every wilderness experience ... and know what to avoid! And yes, there is the special call of the wilderness that we all hold close ... but express in divergent ways. Thanks for your pics. Ha! As I am on dialup, at first the downloads starting at the top, looked like you were going to fire up the bush! :) Whew!
 
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