Leaving Your Mark.

[stabman]

Ha! As I am on dialup, at first the downloads starting at the top, looked like you were going to fire up the bush! Whew!

That's one thing I'm always careful of.
I love a good fire, but a big part of that means being in control of it.
One uncontrolled fire can screw up a large area for everyone.

 

[22-rimfire]

Not to mention that fire might kill you, kill others, destroy property, and perhaps bankrupt you for the rest of your life or put you in jail.

those shelters are indeed cool, not to mention useful ... and if I happened upon them in my travels, I would think of the person who built them, and I would likely use them. To me, this is not defacing amongst the thousands of saplings under the canopy

You see, one man's scourage is another man's treasure. That is the way things are. Bet the park service would really like you building those shelters.

I recall being a bit irratated about signs saying "no open fires".... a nice fire makes the camping experience more fun. They want you to bring your "fire" with you. (Of course I undestand the reason for the signs.) They may also want you to bring your shelter with you (aka tent).

Personally it doesn't bother me one bit, but I see nature as something to use. Those samplings and small trees grow back. But so do the larger trees. It's a matter of perspective on time.

 

[LMT66]

I've caught some flak from past posts of my shelter. It was built on canal spoil wasteland and in about a year will be covered with 1.8 million cubic yards of dirt — that’s a 60-foot-high pile, 11/2 miles long. Talk about leaving a mark! OUCH! My poor little a-frame. RIP.

 

[KnottyEagle]

I don't do it. The last time I was in the woods I picked up 5 Mountain Dew cans and a 12 gauge shotgun shell.

 

[MNofUSN]

The classic "mark" in our society are grave stones. Folks, that rock came from somewhere. Probably a large quarry. That's a big mark. Humans have been leaving "marks" for eternity in their environment and one person will view said marks as a scourage and another will just see it as harmless fun or a record.....

My great grandfather was cremated, as well as my grandfather, my father is going to be as well as myself. my grandfather's and his father's were left at sea & my father and i are doing the same thing

We die, turn to ash then released into the world that owns us....... wheres the tombstone in that???

 

[Shotgun]

I'm surprised that people actually care about "defacing" a tree (any tree?). I can see that attitude in a park, but out in the open woods, I see no big deal with it.

Smithhammer, I understand the "leave no trace" or "leave only footprints". But trees are living things and if you want to call carvings into the tree bark as defacing a tree then so be it. But these things heal over with time. I find the initials carved into beech trees as kind of a time capsule. It does take some time as compared to spraying some paint onto something which disgusts me for the most part. Again, in a park, I say leave things as they are. In the open woods, few people care (even the owner) and initials do not cause a loss in value relative to timber. Trees are a resource; a living resource. They are there to be used and enjoyed for what they are.

"make it a cool one".

You say you hate spray painted graffiti and yet you're making some of the same arguments that taggers do. I don't hate this kind of thing because I think it'll kill a tree. I hate this crap because I go to the forest to enjoy nature and not some nitwit's graffiti. And that's exactly what it is.

 

[22-rimfire]

Not going to beat a dead horse. I think everyone knows my opinion on the initials on a tree issue and know that I dislike crudely painted graffiti on just about any surface. Carefully painted initials (with a brush vs spray paint) on a tree would not bother me. Again, I view the forest as a place to enjoy and use respectfully. I have no problem with clear cutting as long as the erosion issue is somewhat addressed. Trees/wood make a great building material. Always dislike the terminology of communing with nature or "enjoying nature". I tend to focus on different aspects of the environment to enjoy or take an interest in. I particularly enjoy native plants and especially native wild flowers. Few things make a hike more enjoyable than a water falls and a nice cool stream.

 

[Killinumsoftly]

I always make cairns, when I stop for a drink or a snack

 

[imaginefj]

If you come to where I camp you would not even notice anyone was there. If I come across you carving your name into a tree you won't know what hit you!

What are you going to do?

Perhaps Indian paintings on cave walls are vandalism.

 

[Stelth]

or vandalism

 

[Hammer67]

The "well, the cavemen did it" analogy is ridiculous, for a number of reasons, not least of which is that there weren't more than 6 billion of them, all of whom are already leaving a mark to varying degrees. At the end of the day, "leaving your mark" is nothing more than juvenile ego. Mark the walls of your own house if you need to mark something so badly.

 

[stabman]

The "well, the cavemen did it" analogy is ridiculous, for a number of reasons, not least of which is that there weren't more than 6 billion of them

To be fair, most of the 6 billion or so humans will never venture closer to the wilderness than going to a city park (if that).

 

[Hammer67]

To be fair, most of the 6 billion or so humans will never venture closer to the wilderness than going to a city park (if that).

I was referring to general population impacts on a larger scale, of which impacts on "wild" areas have steadily increased as well. But, world population estimates of 10,000 years ago are estimated between 4-8 million. Yellowstone NP alone saw 3.6 million last year.

 

[stabman]

I was referring to general population impacts on a larger scale, of which impacts on "wild" areas have steadily increased as well.

It sure does.
People wanting to drive cars and have shiny things impacts the natural world in ways far more destructive than most would like to admit.

 

[Hammer67]

It sure does.
People wanting to drive cars and have shiny things impacts the natural world in ways far more destructive than most would like to admit.

Yeah, which is a whole broader subject beyond the scope of this. But it is sometimes interesting to me what we choose to call "impact" and what we choose not to. Still, at the end of the day, I don't go into wild places because I want to see somebody's initials. I still have the silly idea that wilderness should be a place to get away from blatant human impacts and still experience things in a fairly "raw" state. But some of that may depend on what part of the world you live in as well, I guess.

 

[imaginefj]

We say, let things be natural. Then we say humans have been walking the Earth for thousands of years.

So is what we do any different than what any other animal does?

I just pose this question in regards to humans using their environment.

 

[baldtaco-II]

We say, let things be natural. Then we say humans have been walking the Earth for thousands of years. So is what we do any different than what any other animal does?I just pose this question in regards to humans using their environment.

Yes. Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea. We have mechanisms with which we can know better.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Yes. Actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea. We have mechanisms with which we can know better.

Well stated.

 

[22-rimfire]

My philosophy is not to leave any permanent traces of my outings in the outdoors. The saying leave only footprints probably applies. But when you start splitting hairs about what really matters or bothers you that people do in the woods, it becomes a different story and very individual.

The saying about cigarette butts sort of applies.... someone drops a cig butt on the ground and somebody gets upset for littering, "What if a million people decide to drop their one cig butt on the ground here?" The same analogy could be applied to cutting your initials into a proper tree (not old growth timber which does not exist in many places), graffitti in general, building shelters, a campfire, cutting and using downed dead timber for a fire, clearing a camp site of debris or cutting small trees to use around the fire or to support a tarp, driving on wet dirt roads, ATVs, mountain bike use off road, or whatever. The list is endless and it is all a matter of perspective on the outdoors and man's impact on these areas. Man alters his environment no matter where man goes to some degree for his own betterment. That is what makes man different from most animals. So, yes, some judgement is necessary when altering your environment. That is where the problem lies, a 40 or 50 year old man who has spent many hours hiking and enjoying the outdoors sees things differently than many adolescent kids or a hard core Greens Peace or Sierra Club person in terms of the importance or relevance of man's impact.

 

[mewolf1]

I already answered this.

imaginefj;12300232]What are you going to do?

Perhaps Indian paintings on cave walls are vandalism.

The biggest compliment paid to the first people of this continent was reported to the Queen of Spain, when lost Chris Columbus
told her he had found a "pristine, untouched, wilderness." Tens of thousands of people were here. Not much in the way of
marks left behind that were not of spiritual value too them.