Less Is More: The Official Becker Fitness Thread

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Basically, although a lot of people do shrugs by hunching their shoulders forward. You want them high and back, using the traps and paraspinals. You'll hold that position through the entire workout. Eventually they'll stay there on their own accord. I actually try to keep that body positioning all the time. My posture has improved and it's significantly reduced the back pain I used to have.
 
I'm 6 foot and at about 215. Used to bench 315 (10 years ago). I need to get back to 195 to feel right in my skin. At almost 50 years of age I need to get things back under control before I get lazy and succumb to 'middle-age'. Thanks for the motivation Guyon.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Bench press is one big difference. You'll lift with the bar positioned higher up (just under your neck, and well above the usual area). With your shoulders pulled up and back, and back flat, you'll end up building muscle higher, so it will layer up and over your collarbone, and, combined with the traps and delts, will protect your shoulders.
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Haven't done it yet, as my gym days are on Friday. I'm wondering though, why not do incline presses to build muscle higher up rather than shrugging and having it over the collar bone? Weight right above the collarbone shifts stress from the pectoralis minor and more on the anterior deltoids at a potentially awkward angle.
 
Qeth said:
Haven't done it yet, as my gym days are on Friday. I'm wondering though, why not do incline presses to build muscle higher up rather than shrugging and having it over the collar bone? Weight right above the collarbone shifts stress from the pectoralis minor and more on the anterior deltoids at a potentially awkward angle.
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The idea is to build muscle around the joint naturally. Remember, if you follow the program exactly, you'll be doing less weight at first, because you're moving the weight just with your pecs and arms, so it will be harder. It doesn't actually put bad stress on your anterior delts because they're supported by the bench, if you're doing bench. More, it shouldn't be an awkward angle because if you hold your hands out in front of you perpendicular to your body, that's actually the natural place for them to be.

Not only that, however, but if you try incline presses normally, you'll probably notice that you are actually pushing your shoulders forward. That's why many weight lifters end up with a hunched posture. That's not actually beneficial for one's spinal or muscular health, and often results in joint injury. You probably know how common shoulder injuries are. None of my father-in-law's athletes have had a shoulder injury since they started with him, and that includes professional football and baseball players. More, you don't actually layer muscle up higher above your collarbone by doing incline presses. If you don't do that, the muscles end up being more discrete. The idea is that you build a cushion of muscle completely surrounding that joint, which serves to hold it in place.
 
Come on gents, let's not have this die down. It's only March!

CF: did a couple of sets with light weights. A little awkward, but I'll keep it in the rotation and see where it takes me.

Did a plyometric DVD, been a while since I did one of these. I always thought my form was fine, but upon recording, found out I need a crapton of corrections.

[video=youtube;9e01EX95Km8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e01EX95Km8&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
Yep, it's quite awkward at first, especially when you start factoring in the breath control part. Gets to be second nature after a while, though, and then you never want to look back.
 
The most efficient and quick way is a good combo of exercise and diet with a pretty heavy emphasis on the diet because without it, you won't really see results from the exercise. A good type of diet is the paleo diet. This diet includes food cavemen would have eaten: meat, vegetables, fruit, nuts, etc. The main culprit behind poor health and extra weight are not fats and oils, but rather sugars and carbohydrates. This is however a fairly common misconception that if you eat fat, you will automatically gain fat. This is false, however. The reason being that the body metabolizes carbs very rapidly and releases the energy all at once into the blood. The pancreas picks up on this huge influx of glucose, and sends a message to store the remaining energy as fat. Animal fat, on the other hand, is metabolized more slowly and therefore produces a steady and slower stream of energy.
As far as exercise, one that I have found to be beneficial is called Tabatta Protocol. It is a short duration, high intensity workout that spikes the metabolism to burn fat not only during the workout(like running), but also after the workout. Aside from its fat burning properties, it also helps increase cardio significantly as well as muscle building. I think many would benefit from looking this up.
 
Off topic, but interesting username. Any chance you're a Slow Mo Guys, Rooster Teeth, or AH fan?
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
The idea is to build muscle around the joint naturally. Remember, if you follow the program exactly, you'll be doing less weight at first, because you're moving the weight just with your pecs and arms, so it will be harder. It doesn't actually put bad stress on your anterior delts because they're supported by the bench, if you're doing bench. More, it shouldn't be an awkward angle because if you hold your hands out in front of you perpendicular to your body, that's actually the natural place for them to be.

Not only that, however, but if you try incline presses normally, you'll probably notice that you are actually pushing your shoulders forward. That's why many weight lifters end up with a hunched posture. That's not actually beneficial for one's spinal or muscular health, and often results in joint injury. You probably know how common shoulder injuries are. None of my father-in-law's athletes have had a shoulder injury since they started with him, and that includes professional football and baseball players. More, you don't actually layer muscle up higher above your collarbone by doing incline presses. If you don't do that, the muscles end up being more discrete. The idea is that you build a cushion of muscle completely surrounding that joint, which serves to hold it in place.
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Sorry but I feel the need to correct you on this......

- There is no such thing as just using your pecs and arms when it comes to bench pressing, a lot of it involves your shoulders, triceps, and even your back.

- If you want to put less stress on the shoulders on the bench press, use the powerlifting form (refer to video posted).

- Weight lifters do NOT have a hunched posture, not sure what kind of weight lifter you're looking at. If someone does have a hunched posture caused by weight lifting, it's because they only workout their pecs and neglect to workout their back.

Here's a great video showing proper benchpress form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QnwAoesJvQ
 
The Logical One said:
Sorry but I feel the need to correct you on this......

- There is no such thing as just using your pecs and arms when it comes to bench pressing, a lot of it involves your shoulders, triceps, and even your back.

- If you want to put less stress on the shoulders on the bench press, use the powerlifting form (refer to video posted).

- Weight lifters do NOT have a hunched posture, not sure what kind of weight lifter you're looking at. If someone does have a hunched posture caused by weight lifting, it's because they only workout their pecs and neglect to workout their back.

Here's a great video showing proper benchpress form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QnwAoesJvQ
Click to expand...

Since you haven't tried the program, I'll just point out you have very little standard of comparison. And it's also worth pointing out that your triceps are part of your arms. Shoulders also are kinda attached too, as long as we're being picky. As for the back, well, many people arch their back up off the bench when they're benching. I realize you may say that's bad technique, but just the same, when we're niggling about technique, then there's a lot more nuance to it. I wasn't really planning on explaining the entire program form over the internet, because that's very difficult to do, and those that are interested should consider checking out the book or working with the author.

But, as long as you're going to "correct" me, I'll go into a little more detail. Yes, you use your shoulders and back in bench press. However, the position that you have them in dictates which muscles are primary in the lift, and allows you to better focus your attention on developing certain muscles. If that's not something you can agree with, we're going to have very little agreement. Many people will use their shoulders to do a lot of the lifting, as well as arching their backs. As a consequence, they're going to develop very differently, because they're using those shoulder muscles to push weight forward. That's naturally going to pull their shoulders forward as well, resulting in the hunched posture that I was talking about. YOU may not think of the posture as hunched. But by the standards of the program I'm talking about, many (probably even most) people who lift weights have their shoulders forward, and very pronounced collarbones, instead of a smooth slab of muscle. And frankly, if you're doing it right, your shoulders barely move, and they're certainly not going to be tired at the end of a set. Same deal with lifting so the bar comes to your nipples, which are really the bottom of your pecs. That results in developing your pecs lower (big surprise). Sure, you can do other exercises to compensate for that issue. But while you're doing 3 different exercises, I can do one and get the same results. If you're not a professional, and you're just trying to stay fit (which I think was sort of the point of this thread), efficiency counts.

As far as your video goes, while it's not my program, and I am not certified to teach it, there are several points of inconsistency that I notice. For one, his back isn't flat against the bench. So he's arching up, which serves to pull the shoulders down towards the ground, and thereby reduce the mechanical advantage from the lift. For two, his shoulders aren't actually pulled together and back, which means he isn't going to build the same way. Third, he brings the bar to touch the lower part of his pec. That's going to develop your pecs lower, which also misses the point entirely. There are more points, but I don't really want to debate lifting technique here. That wasn't the point of my bringing it up.

While there's plenty of truth to what you're saying, it strikes me that you've missed most of the point of the program. You may be happy with what you're doing, and that's fine. This thread, from what I understood, is about motivating people to stay fit. I brought up this program because it's very different from what conventional weight lifting coaches teach, and I felt that Qeth might find it interesting. If you don't, that's fine. I personally avoid conventional lifting programs and techniques, especially like the video you posted, because I feel that it's a less efficient method and doesn't develop the pectoral muscles in such a way that I protect my shoulders. If it did, shoulder injuries would be much less common. But again, that's just what works for me. I do not care to debate which style is the best. I was merely offering something different that very few people have seen, that I found to be revolutionary and interesting. If you don't like it, fine. But perhaps you can avoid offering "corrections" on something you've never tried.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Since you haven't tried the program, I'll just point out you have very little standard of comparison. And it's also worth pointing out that your triceps are part of your arms. Shoulders also are kinda attached too, as long as we're being picky. As for the back, well, many people arch their back up off the bench when they're benching. I realize you may say that's bad technique, but just the same, when we're niggling about technique, then there's a lot more nuance to it. I wasn't really planning on explaining the entire program form over the internet, because that's very difficult to do, and those that are interested should consider checking out the book or working with the author.

But, as long as you're going to "correct" me, I'll go into a little more detail. Yes, you use your shoulders and back in bench press. However, the position that you have them in dictates which muscles are primary in the lift, and allows you to better focus your attention on developing certain muscles. If that's not something you can agree with, we're going to have very little agreement. Many people will use their shoulders to do a lot of the lifting, as well as arching their backs. As a consequence, they're going to develop very differently, because they're using those shoulder muscles to push weight forward. That's naturally going to pull their shoulders forward as well, resulting in the hunched posture that I was talking about. YOU may not think of the posture as hunched. But by the standards of the program I'm talking about, many (probably even most) people who lift weights have their shoulders forward, and very pronounced collarbones, instead of a smooth slab of muscle. And frankly, if you're doing it right, your shoulders barely move, and they're certainly not going to be tired at the end of a set. Same deal with lifting so the bar comes to your nipples, which are really the bottom of your pecs. That results in developing your pecs lower (big surprise). Sure, you can do other exercises to compensate for that issue. But while you're doing 3 different exercises, I can do one and get the same results. If you're not a professional, and you're just trying to stay fit (which I think was sort of the point of this thread), efficiency counts.

As far as your video goes, while it's not my program, and I am not certified to teach it, there are several points of inconsistency that I notice. For one, his back isn't flat against the bench. So he's arching up, which serves to pull the shoulders down towards the ground, and thereby reduce the mechanical advantage from the lift. For two, his shoulders aren't actually pulled together and back, which means he isn't going to build the same way. Third, he brings the bar to touch the lower part of his pec. That's going to develop your pecs lower, which also misses the point entirely. There are more points, but I don't really want to debate lifting technique here. That wasn't the point of my bringing it up.

While there's plenty of truth to what you're saying, it strikes me that you've missed most of the point of the program. You may be happy with what you're doing, and that's fine. This thread, from what I understood, is about motivating people to stay fit. I brought up this program because it's very different from what conventional weight lifting coaches teach, and I felt that Qeth might find it interesting. If you don't, that's fine. I personally avoid conventional lifting programs and techniques, especially like the video you posted, because I feel that it's a less efficient method and doesn't develop the pectoral muscles in such a way that I protect my shoulders. If it did, shoulder injuries would be much less common. But again, that's just what works for me. I do not care to debate which style is the best. I was merely offering something different that very few people have seen, that I found to be revolutionary and interesting. If you don't like it, fine. But perhaps you can avoid offering "corrections" on something you've never tried.
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Not trying to start an argument or anything, just wanted to point out incorrect info. I don't know anything about your program, I was just skimming through the recent page and saw your post and was taken back by the misinformation.

FYI Dave Tate is one of the most well known strength coaches and powerlifter; the guy knows what he's talking about. If you watched the video he DOES arch his back and he does pull in his shoulders. The whole point of everything he showed you in the video is for you to lift as much weight as possible.

I've been working out seriously since I was a junior in highschool, and after 15 years of trial and error I have come to realize that trying to do certain exercises to target specific areas of your body is not only ridiculous, but a waste of time. Your pecs are two huge slabs of muscle, I have never seen a guy who can bench press 315 with weak looking pecs. Heck I've never even seen a guy who can legitimately bench 225 for reps have an underdeveloped chest.

My point is, if you lift heavya** weights, consistently, the aesthetics will follow. Do heavy compound exercises (bench, deadlifts, squats, rows, dips, pullups) while eating at a caloric surplus and you'll grow muscles in place you didn't even know had muscles.

All that talk about "toning" by doing high reps with low weights and doing all these isolation exercises for a few months whenever summer rolls around the corner.... will yield little to no results.

As I said I don't know anything about your program, I don't even know where you posted it up so I'm not directing this towards you. My corrections were initially directed towards that one post you made in which the info was in fact not correct. If you still don't agree with me, then we can agree to disagree.
 
The Logical One said:
As I said I don't know anything about your program, I don't even know where you posted it up so I'm not directing this towards you. My corrections were initially directed towards that one post you made in which the info was in fact not correct. If you still don't agree with me, then we can agree to disagree.
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This. You speak about misinformation, and yet you don't actually have any idea how the program works. I am aware that Mr Tate is a well-known coach. His style is pretty much standard, and the fact that I'm posting up a different suggestion for someone else, doesn't mean that I don't know how it works. I lifted that way for many years.

I don't know where you're getting your nonsense about underdeveloped chest, etc. The point is WHERE you develop, and how. I submit again that since you don't know anything about the program you're criticizing, you've got no room to talk about "misinformation." It's the internet, so you're welcome to your opinion, but you're operating from a position of ignorance. Sure, there are plenty of people who can get good results from lifting like Mr. Tate. I have never disputed that, nor have I offered opinions about what is necessarily better. And FWIW, I rep at 225 (6 sets of 15), and I weigh in at about 180. It's not about doing "light" weights, although you should start the program much lighter than you'd expect because you have a lot more body positioning to keep track of that's different from the norm. It's about lifting lighter than the point that strains your muscles to the point of tearing. Think of it this way. When you lift as heavy as you can manage, the way you bulk is by micro-tearing the fibers of your muscles. Now, think about what happens when you tear muscle tissue... You end up with scarring. Scar tissue isn't actually as strong as the muscle itself, which I'd think ought to be obvious. So really big, bulky guys, usually have muscles that, while they can lift a lot of weight, are actually fairly prone to injury, and they can't actually lift as much as they should be able to, with the same amount of bulk. Alternatively, you can lift slightly lighter, do more reps, and layer muscle, instead of tearing it. That was the point of that particular comment, which you evidently missed, before jumping in making incorrect and unwarranted assumptions.

But you keep on doing it your way. If it works for you, great. The point of this thread was for us all to stay fit and share pointers, etc.

I will, however, ask you to keep your comments about "misinformation" and other such "corrections" to yourself, because frankly, you have no standard of comparison, you don't know anything about what you're critiquing, and by using terms like "correct you on this," and "misinformation," you ARE trying to start an argument. Those are arrogant, rude, and combative terms. If you really weren't trying to start an argument, a better way would have been to say something like, "I don't understand why you say this, because..." or "I disagree with you about ____ because ____." Then it's phrased in context of your opinion, and there's room for healthy and civil discussion. If you want to discuss this further, I suggest you take it to PM, which, frankly, you should have done from the beginning. I'm only doing this in public because YOU started there, and this will be my last post on this topic, regardless.
 
Hey guys, just thought I'd contribute a little bit to this thread. I picked up a new book about 2 weeks ago called "The Eat Clean Diet, For Men." So far I'm really happy I picked it up. Like everyone else I decided to get back in shape after the holidays which means back to the gym and back to eating healthy. Hitting the gym again isn't much of a problem for me, I've been in and out of the gym since my football days in high school (already a decade ago, yeeesh) but putting together truly healthy meals with some type of variety and flavor is more of a challenge. This book really solved that problem for me, it has a ton of recipes in it. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, desserts, soups, grilling, snacks, everything is in there and so far they've all been very good. It also has info on supplements, training, eating out, and more. I know I sound like an advertisment for this book but has honestly made going grocery shopping, putting together healthy meals, and eating healthy snacks a ton easier for me. It's just one less thing I have to worry about now, I can just go to the book. Ill stop ranting now. If your in the market for healthy lifestyle/cook book I highly reccommend this one. While your at Barnes Noble getting "The Eat-Clean Diet, For Men" make sure you pick up a copy of "Joy" too;)
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Is there anything in there to make bacon a clean eat ;-)? There are a bunch of excellent cooks in here (Joy of Cooking, someone? )
 
Is there anything in there to make bacon a clean eat ;-)? There are a bunch of excellent cooks in here (Joy of Cooking, someone? )
 
Turkey bacon is in there.... no its not the same buuuttt a lil real bacon once in a while never killed anyone right
 
Kettlebells came in!

Day 1 kettlebell (with DVD "Art of Strength: Providence" by Anthony DiLuglio), Day 17 of the paleo diet. Strength is still not 100%, I hope it ramps up soon.

20130318_192923_zps9509407c.jpg
 
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