Let's be friends :)

[munk]

No, Yvsa, in four years you'll have an opportunity to vote for Hillary.
It's not going to get better.


munk

 

[Dave Rishar]

The sad truth is I'll bet from talking to most of you guys that the Libertarian candidate represents our views on gun ownership, taxes, and individual liberties better than either Kerry OR Bush, and yet no one voted for him. We are all so busy trying to fend off the _worst_ of the two candidates that we don't have a chance to consider the guy who would probably be the best.

It's too bad. I'd like to give a third party a shot at it at least once. Certainly could not do worse at least as far as the deficit is concerned!

Regards,


Norm

You're absolutely right. However, as much as I'd have liked to have seen Badnarik as president, it wasn't meant to be. A vote Bush's way was a vote against Kerry, as far as I'm concerned, and I could not support Kerry as CinC for reasons that should suggest themselves. It's too bad the two mainstream choices weren't optimal. In my opinion, a mainstream election should be about picking the better of two good selections, not picking the one that's "not as bad." (Of course, a perfect election would be the Libertarian getting elected. ) Honestly, I don't know if America's ready for a Libertarian government. I know I am, you know you are, but for the average American? I don't know...

Here in WA state, the Libertarian candidates for state government scored a solid 2% across the board. That just supports my own beliefs that we're in the top 2% of the population.

That said, as CinC Bush has been very kind to me. My own quality of life, and the quality of the lives of my shipmates, certainly improved during his tenure. (There's a reason you see so many Bush bumper stickers on military posts. ) Many things broken during Clinton's reign have been fixed. Out of deferrance to the UCMJ, I'll keep my criticisms to myself.

 

[munk]

We can pine away for libertarian heaven, but here on earth their platform is open borders now, free trade all over the globe now, and legalize all drugs- including those like PCP which should not be.

As long as they want the unilateral trade and border changes, with America taking the hits, I can't vote them.
However- I do tip my hat.


munk

 

[Dave Rishar]

We can pine away for libertarian heaven, but here on earth their platform is open borders now, free trade all over the globe now, and legalize all drugs- including those like PCP which should not be.

As long as they want the unilateral trade and border changes, with America taking the hits, I can't vote them.
However- I do tip my hat.


munk

While I support both of those thoughts, discussing them is probably beyond the scope of this thread. Suffice it to say that it's wonderful to be able to sit here in my comfortable home (rented though it may be), cold drink in hand, new car in driveway, belly full of food, and discuss these ideas without fear of repercussions with someone else a good distance away from me...all on the very day that our leader was told that he'd get to work for another four years not because he wanted to, but because the people of his nation wanted him to.

Things are not perfect. I doubt that they ever will be. They can be better. They are, however, not too bad at all. This is something worth drinking to. I think this may be the ultimate point being made by the original poster.

 

[munk]

When Owner and Chief Moderator Bill was in better health, reaching just such a point he would often say; "I'll drink to that."



munk

 

[namaarie]

Amen, Satori!

 

[Dave Rishar]

When Owner and Chief Moderator Bill was in better health, reaching just such a point he would often say; "I'll drink to that."



munk

I'll drink to that as well.

 

[namaarie]

Munk, your views on the libertarians are very similar to mine. I like a lot they stand for, but they want some stuff that I just can't support. Too bad there are parties. If only we just had people with good ideas. That would be nice...

 

[munk]

The moribund party, the dead old party, is the one with ideas. School vouchers. Religious orgs doing good deeds and getting Fed monies, attempting to retain some market force in the medical professions so they stay competitive and cheaper. Tort reform. Accountability in schools, standard testing. Partial privitization of SS so it won't go broke, and so young people can get a heck of a lot more for their money. And how about recognizing the Second Amendment as an individual right and SAYING SO?

The party of change, the Democrats, our status quo for 30 years, is against change. They think if things get bad taxing the 'rich' will fix it.

If I live long enough, we'll probably see the two sides switch places again.

munk

 

[spiraltwista]

No No! not free trade all over the globe, & the abolishment of drug prohibition! What a nightmare!

Wow what else would the richest, most powerfull & outwouldly respectable drug dealers be able to do to get richer & more powerfull.



Spiral

 

[Yvsa]

Wow what else would the richest, most powerfull & outwouldly respectable drug dealers be able to do to get richer & more powerfull.

Spiral

If the drugs were legalized and taxed it would run the drug lords out of business. The war on drugs is another fallacy cooked up by our government and is just another bureaucracy that costs us taxpayers millions and millions of wasted dollars!
Our prisons are full of non-violent offenders who had a little marijuana for smokin, another waste of taxpayers dollar's.
I do agree with Munk that drugs like pcp should be dealt with somehow but then you get back too people choosing which drug is bad and which is worse than bad again and so are back in the same old dilemma.

 

[DannyinJapan]

Well, hey fellas, I will get my presidential campaign up and running again if yall want.

Danny For president in 2008!!!!

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I second Danny's nom. We need a leader who has the guts to lead this country (and isn't afraid to show them after dishonor). We need a leader that will not only great foreign diplomats with a firm handshake, but can dispatch them with the 5 point palm exploding heart technique. What this country needs now...is a ninja. **This ad was paid for by N.W.T.F.O.A.A.I.W.O.C. (ninjas who totally flip out and are in want of change)**

Jake

 

[Yvsa]

I second Danny's nom.

Jake

Sorry, Danny-I-J isn't old enough, yet. However I nominate Kis. Kis is old and wise enough and values his friends and family. We could all have soft cushy cabinet jobs as long as we did them right.
And just think, all of the State Dinners and other functions would have wild fish and game as the main courses and the talk would be of khukuris, other knives, guns, religion, and a whole lot of other stuff before we got down to the five minutes of politickin needed every day to run the country.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I think you're on to something there, Yvsa. Kis would probably make an excellent leader for our country. If nothing else, you'd walk away from his speeches feeling all warm and fuzzy as well as greatful for all the tangible and spiritual things we have. So many great fellas here to pick from

jake

 

[Ben Arown-Awile]

...School vouchers. Religious orgs doing good deeds and getting Fed monies, attempting to retain some market force in the medical professions so they stay competitive and cheaper. Tort reform. Accountability in schools, standard testing. Partial privatization of SS so it won't go broke, and so young people can get a heck of a lot more for their money. And how about recognizing the Second Amendment as an individual right and SAYING SO?...

Munk,
All of those issues could have positive benefits for some, but they all have negative aspects. School vouchers for example lead to Private Charter Schools which are out of the mainstream. Instead of teaching traditional history and the scientific method, they could, and do, teach the World According to Jesus. Religion is fine to practice at home, but the youth need an education that puts them on equal footing with the rest of the modern world.

Religion and religious organizations have no place in the government. Our history is replete with their "good deeds" using federal monies. Reservation mission schools to Christianize the heathen savages comes easily to mind, as does the concept and result of "Manifest Destiny" which was ordained by "God" and paid for by the taxpayers.

Retaining "market force" in the medical profession usually means preferential treatment to the HMOs and pharmaceutical corporations. This does not benefit anyone except those reaping the profits. The public suffers.

Tort reform usually means that some corporate entity becomes immune to court action and can be less accountable for it's products and actions.

Accountability in schools and standard testing is something I see close up every day. There is so much accountability and filling out of bureaucratic forms that the teachers have a lot less time for actually teaching. The implementation of systems of accountability has required the diversion of large expenditures for administrators and other non-teaching personnel. This is money that was formerly used in the actual education process to benefit the students.

Standard testing, has pretty much destroyed out local school district, as well as many others around the country. In an attempt to conform and reach the mandated standards, the curriculum has been reduced to just what is on "The Test". The grade schools only teach reading and math. No more history, science, music, art, or P.E. We are no longer producing well rounded, educated, citizens. We are producing robots who can pass a specific test.

Privatizing SS and allowing workers to invest their own money sounds great. But, who will pick up the tab when they lose their invested retirement savings because of market crashes, stock manipulations, or corporate bankruptcies?

I don't think The Second Amendment is really the issue. If we had a society that produced content, secure, confident citizens instead of insecure, paranoid, neurotics, we probably wouldn't feel such an overwhelming need to arm ourselves against our perceived threats.

 

[munk]

Those are all well articulated stances, but the vouchers and privatization of SS haven't really had a chance to work, so you or I could not possibly say whether they were successful, and certainly not unsuccesful. Vouchers will not lead to charter schools. The point is to get better education than currently provided, and stimulate a moridbund bureacacy. The fear of partial privatization of SS does not warrant stopping the idea.

There are some teachers in my extended family, and I am somewhat aware of the problems. If your schools in Sacramento have a problem now with the curiculum only being 'what's on the test' that is their own fault. Surey we can agree that fundemental standards have fallen. Requring a base test procedure is hardly earth shattering.

Think about this- if these bureacracies can't deal with some of these things, they shouldn't be allowed to continue their monopoly over the product.

Our conversation is an example of the way I wish differences of opinion were dealt with here in HI. And they mostly are.

The real direction I'm taking this is that the Republicans have ideas- I can't find the Democratic alternative, unless it is more of the same. I was a democrat at one time. And I may be again some day, when the cultural cycle flips around.

munk

 

[munk]

Oh, about picking up the tab- we don't have much to lose; the 'tab' is enormous and we aren't going to be able to pay our children unless we alter the program. Change or die.


munk

 

[namaarie]

Munk,
I almost always agree with you, but here I must differ. I have very close expierience with a high school, and I can say that "the test" is a detriment. I live in Iowa, which is supposed to have fantastic education. It largely does. In schools that are good, however, the threat of "the test" has caused teachers to narrow their curriculums. If a district is performing well, they shouldn't have to look over their shoulders.

Problem with standards is that, while they draw the bottom up, they can draw the top down.

I agree with you on this, though Munk: I love how we solve things here in the Cantina. We write well, talk calmly, and don't get upset. We should all be collective leaders of the nation.

As Ninjas, of course!

 

[Ad Astra]

I'm just sorry the "Mandatory Khukuri Carry" amendment didn't pass in my state.

AA