LETS SEE THOSE MAGNIFICENT HARNESS JACKS

[Campbellclanman]

View attachment 3190468

Travman my friend, that HJ9 Rocks!! I am super pleased Charlie helped us into one of the more elusive versions of Harness Jacks, and that HJ with the Blade on one end and the Punch on the other- and how good was that!!
I remember one day quite vividly, screaming as I was mucking around with the HJ9 and the punch drove under my finer nail big time- now check out that wicked punch on these things, it could not have happened with the worse punch in this case - as the pain instantly severed all functions of my body like 11.000 volts ripping through me I instinctively shook my hand - AND THE PUNCH STAYED IN SWAYING ABOUT!!! It must have only been 3 or four side to side movements of the swaying punch, but each time the knife reached it's limit in the sway- it seemed like it was in slow motion and the pain quadrupled in intensity and I would love to have recorded the high pitched screams I thought never possible leaving my body lol
I have experienced a lot of pain before but clearly understood why that was a form of torture, weeks after the pain level was up there I can tell you, yet somehow I still love that knife

Thanks for sharing the info and the photos, Duncan!

Dave matey, Thank you!
I have a lot of trouble with my own thoughts, when I put a post like that, I am imagining us all sitting around a table and having a Beer and talking knives- I'm merely putting my thoughts and observations down on paper- I'm actually quite terrified that someone takes it the wrong way, I just put it out there so others can join in and share their thoughts and rectify where I am going off the trail, because that trail is bloody hard to see at times

You are right, about Camillus likely being responsible for this knife, Duncan! Nice example of the breed!!
The "straight-lines" were made between 1933 and 1940 according to Levine. Some by Camillus and some by G.Schrade!!!

Charlie thank you! Would love to see the Schrade version of the Remington straight line as well and have the both of them side by side!

Campbellclanman
View attachment 3190767View attachment 3190768View attachment 3190769View attachment 3190770the punch is identical to the one on my Camillus camp knife

Hey there Oldy
That looks to be a nice Camillus Camp Knife- man I love those things.

Again, as I have said just above in this post, these are my thoughts and observations my friend, and I can imagine you sliding that gorgeous Camp knife over to me and me getting to handle that knife, I would then take out that Remington straight line and show you my thoughts, like this.......

If you look at your Camillus Punch (which is the non-spiral punch by Camillus), that came out the same time as the Camillus Spiral punch in around 1938- these two punches ( see below in the comparison photo's) are exact in build except for the attractive Spirals on one of them and the other does not have this feature.

The Camillus punch tangs and the face-side's concave machining are identical to each other and if you look at the pile side of your Camillus punch you will see there is absolutely no shoulder formation (raised tang shape if you will) and the pile-side is completely flat.

The punch you have there in your Camillus Camp Knife is Camillus's non-spiral punch, check out the Remington's pile-side, it is very is much convex in shape as well check out the Remington's "Shoulder" (sorry that is my weird way of describing the raised shape) its quite raised and that raised portion goes right across the pile-side - now check out your Camillus pile-side again- is all very flat.
The Camillus Tang itself is shaped differently as well, check out these photos and please my friend let me know what you think
Note the different cut-offs on the Tangs kick- I have noticed this in different frames- of which these knives were in the comparison photo's.

Camillus Non-Spiral ( L) and Spiral Punch's face-side.



Camillus Non-Spiral ( L) and Spiral Punch's pile-side.



Now the straight line Remington......
Pile-side - note the strong convex shape, as well as the raised Shoulder going across the tang.



Face side of the Straight Line Remington, deeper concaved face. Wider and thicker than the Camillus punch. Often with bigger frames ( Imagine a GEC 54 compared to a GEC 14) the same punch can vary in widths, and as well the slight differences in the kick shape. I haven't seen a beefed up Spiral or non-spiral Camillus version (yet).



This is what I mean about I am hoping that this is taken as knife mates chatting away about knives, and their quirks and questions that they come with, and our observations.

 

[r8shell]

Travman my friend, that HJ9 Rocks!! I am super pleased Charlie helped us into one of the more elusive versions of Harness Jacks, and that HJ with the Blade on one end and the Punch on the other- and how good was that!!
I remember one day quite vividly, screaming as I was mucking around with the HJ9 and the punch drove under my finer nail big time- now check out that wicked punch on these things, it could not have happened with the worse punch in this case - as the pain instantly severed all functions of my body like 11.000 volts ripping through me I instinctively shook my hand - AND THE PUNCH STAYED IN SWAYING ABOUT!!! It must have only been 3 or four side to side movements of the swaying punch, but each time the knife reached it's limit in the sway- it seemed like it was in slow motion and the pain quadrupled in intensity and I would love to have recorded the high pitched screams I thought never possible leaving my body lol
I have experienced a lot of pain before but clearly understood why that was a form of torture, weeks after the pain level was up there I can tell you, yet somehow I still love that knife

It is a wicked sharp punch, for sure.

 

[Oldy]

Campbellclanman ok I followed the instructions of one of my earlier grade teachers and reread your answer 15 times,why she mentioned that to me and not the other kids I can only surmise she like me lol,my tang is definitely different than the Camillus spiral punch and exact to your top picture of the Camillus left of the Camillus spiral punch (which is on my to get list)my non pile does has a very noticeable shoulder and the non pile side is completely concave without any flat surface,I bought my camp knife from waynorth charlie about 3 years ago and I think in my research it was made in 1942 after the rationing of steel being used for munitions and such,but my research should never under any circumstances be used unless you are ready to be proven wrong or willing to look foolish.im not sure if I answered your question correctly.

 

[waynorth]

Charlie thank you! Would love to see the Schrade version of the Remington straight line as well and have the both of them side by side!

You and me both!!!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Campbellclanman ok I followed the instructions of one of my earlier grade teachers and reread your answer 15 times,why she mentioned that to me and not the other kids I can only surmise she like me lol,my tang is definitely different than the Camillus spiral punch and exact to your top picture of the Camillus left of the Camillus spiral punch (which is on my to get list)my non pile does has a very noticeable shoulder and the non pile side is completely concave without any flat surface,I bought my camp knife from waynorth charlie about 3 years ago and I think in my research it was made in 1942 after the rationing of steel being used for munitions and such,but my research should never under any circumstances be used unless you are ready to be proven wrong or willing to look foolish.im not sure if I answered your question correctly.

Hi Oldy

Your Punch pile side Tang is flat and doesn't have a shoulder in a sharp form, and the pile side shank is definitely convex in shape.

Face - side definitely has a narrow nicely concaved face, not as deep and wide as the Remington.

The Tang area, pile-side is what I was trying to explain as being flat with no shoulders - see photos where I marked the actual areas, I apologise for not explaining myself well.
The Camillus punches, both Spiral and non-spiral all have flat tangs and have no actual patterned sharp raised shoulders, there is always slight differences in machining but no purposely shaped shoulders.



The sharp raised line going across the pile-side tang is what I call the shoulder- shoulders vary in patterns. I have circled the raised shoulder on the Remington Punch pile-side tang below




This area here on your Camillus and other Camillus punch Tangs are flat with no purposely raised shoulder patterns.




Here is another example of shoulders on the pile-side, this time it's Empire's Alvord punches..

 

[Campbellclanman]

A recent arrival was this Schrade Cut Co. Holyoke Belt Co. Harness Jack.

I took a gamble on this knife as it was in a group lot of knives- where the other knives were nothing at all to look at, but I saw this at the back of them and bought the group- the price for the group was far less cheaper than the HJ alone, full blade, beautiful Bone.

Everything is great with this knife, but shame of shames the walk and talk is very soft on the main, a Bear trap on the punch.

The main when opening there is a soft snap when opened, upon closing when it reaches half stop there is no snap at all, and from half stop to closing the blade needs assistance to close.
The Blade is far from loose- quite tight in fact, no blade play when opened, but there is no tension in the spring to make it want to snap home. It is not as though the Blade wants to fall open or anything like that as it is quite tight, the spring is still moving during the walk and talk of the main blade - but it protrudes minimally.
As a user it would be awesome, but it just leaves you wishing it performed 100%

 

[waynorth]

A recent arrival was this Schrade Cut Co. Holyoke Belt Co. Harness Jack.

I took a gamble on this knife as it was in a group lot of knives- where the other knives were nothing at all to look at, but I saw this at the back of them and bought the group- the price for the group was far less cheaper than the HJ alone, full blade, beautiful Bone.

Everything is great with this knife, but shame of shames the walk and talk is very soft on the main, a Bear trap on the punch.

The main when opening there is a soft snap when opened, upon closing when it reaches half stop there is no snap at all, and from half stop to closing the blade needs assistance to close.
The Blade is far from loose- quite tight in fact, no blade play when opened, but there is no tension in the spring to make it want to snap home. It is not as though the Blade wants to fall open or anything like that as it is quite tight, the spring is still moving during the walk and talk of the main blade - but it protrudes minimally.
As a user it would be awesome, but it just leaves you wishing it performed 100%

View attachment 3192895View attachment 3192896View attachment 3192899View attachment 3192901

I wish it had more spring, Duncan, but it's a great looking "Holyoke"!!! Looks barely used!! Their punches are so great!!!!

 

[Campbellclanman]

Thank you Charlie! Your right! It doesn't look to have done a lot of work, and I agree, those punches are so so awesome!

 

[lambertiana]

A recent arrival was this Schrade Cut Co. Holyoke Belt Co. Harness Jack.

I took a gamble on this knife as it was in a group lot of knives- where the other knives were nothing at all to look at, but I saw this at the back of them and bought the group- the price for the group was far less cheaper than the HJ alone, full blade, beautiful Bone.

Everything is great with this knife, but shame of shames the walk and talk is very soft on the main, a Bear trap on the punch.

The main when opening there is a soft snap when opened, upon closing when it reaches half stop there is no snap at all, and from half stop to closing the blade needs assistance to close.
The Blade is far from loose- quite tight in fact, no blade play when opened, but there is no tension in the spring to make it want to snap home. It is not as though the Blade wants to fall open or anything like that as it is quite tight, the spring is still moving during the walk and talk of the main blade - but it protrudes minimally.
As a user it would be awesome, but it just leaves you wishing it performed 100%

View attachment 3192895View attachment 3192896View attachment 3192899View attachment 3192901

I wonder if the poor walk and talk is due to a weak spring or due to being peened together so tightly that the spring can't overcome the friction. Do you feel spring tension when you manually close it?

 

[DaveHS]

 

[Campbellclanman]

I wonder if the poor walk and talk is due to a weak spring or due to being peened together so tightly that the spring can't overcome the friction. Do you feel spring tension when you manually close it?

Hey there my friend, I will try to explain what I am seeing and feeling with the knife.

The blade feels tight- it doesn't flop down like a totally destroyed spring- if you turn the knife upside down the blade sits tight and wont flop down, so it does have tension there, from open to half stop -you have to push the blade all the way to half stop- at no point does the spring tension help take that from you-which it should of course.
From half stop to closed you have to push the blade to closed position, absolutely zero help from the spring to bring the blade home, yet it is fairly tight.

You can see the spring protrude during the walk and talk brilliantly with the punch's walk and talk- in other words a normal spring / blade movement working like it should, with the main blade only a small amount of spring shows itself- it does show itself while pushing the blade closed home from half stop- but minimally.

View attachment 3194630

Dave, wasn't this release a superb monster of a Harness Jack!

 

[afishhunter]

You can see the spring protrude during the walk and talk brilliantly with the punch's walk and talk- in other words a normal spring / blade movement working like it should, with the main blade only a small amount of spring shows itself- it does show itself while pushing the blade closed home from half stop- but minimally.

Sounds like the spring is worn at the tang contact area, to me.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Sounds like the spring is worn at the tang contact area, to me.

I agree, its weird though, as the knife has not done a lot of work, it simply could be that bit of metal on that Spring!

 

[Travman]

Travman my friend, that HJ9 Rocks!! I am super pleased Charlie helped us into one of the more elusive versions of Harness Jacks, and that HJ with the Blade on one end and the Punch on the other- and how good was that!!
I remember one day quite vividly, screaming as I was mucking around with the HJ9 and the punch drove under my finer nail big time- now check out that wicked punch on these things, it could not have happened with the worse punch in this case - as the pain instantly severed all functions of my body like 11.000 volts ripping through me I instinctively shook my hand - AND THE PUNCH STAYED IN SWAYING ABOUT!!! It must have only been 3 or four side to side movements of the swaying punch, but each time the knife reached it's limit in the sway- it seemed like it was in slow motion and the pain quadrupled in intensity and I would love to have recorded the high pitched screams I thought never possible leaving my body lol
I have experienced a lot of pain before but clearly understood why that was a form of torture, weeks after the pain level was up there I can tell you, yet somehow I still love that knife

Yes, that knife is from the “good ol’ days”. That was from back when Charlie had a hand in the design of all the great Blade Forums knives. I’m sorry you stabbed yourself behind the fingernail, but at least you have a good memory from it. I think all owners of that one have been hurt at least once with that super fine and sharp punch. Maybe not as bad as your experience though . I use that super fine punch specifically for getting out really deep splinters. It is the best tool for that job I’ve ever found.