Lets talk GEC!

[HEMI 49]

@Travman brings up a great point, HEMI 49 . If you open and close your pen blade 50 times today....the proof will be in the pudding. No rub....that might suggest you not only don't have a problem, but have and extremely well engineered/assembled knife! I think we'd all want them as close to that liner as possible without touching, so that when you open it, it won't rub against the clip point with that pressure from your nail. Conversely, if after 50 openings, you don't like what you see, then at least you know where you stand.

I think you have me mixed up with @ENG Sorenson...

 

[Quiet]

I don't disagree with any of your points really.

And yes, it is really difficult to imagine a scenario where one might be stuck with only one knife. If that were ever to be the case, something that simply cuts is going to be your absolute best friend.

The gist of my prior point is this: If a cutler makes a knife that is meant to be big, robust, and stout, then I would expect such a knife to be big, robust, and stout - a knife that is suitable for whatever chorin' that comes up. The 97 is big (for a slipjoint), robust (in materials and appearance), and stout (again in materials and appearance). The weak action ruins it for me - if it didn't have a half stop, I would think it was an Opinel without its collar. I guess, in short, the size and appearance of such a knife is wasted on this one where the action is just a hair away from needing to be push closed.

All that to say, I have no doubts that it makes for a mighty fine dinner knife.

To your comments about the 23LL - I, too, had some difficulties with using the thumb of my main hand to depress the lockbar - it felt very precarious. I mentioned this in the 23 thread and a technique was mentioned that I adopted pretty quickly. I use two hands now - use my left to depress the lockbar and use my right to ease the blade into the half stop position and then use my right thumb or leg to snap it closed the rest of the way. Works like a charm - 'tis a different beast than modern liner locks, for sure.

I totally understand your viewpoint. I just have a different view on the #97, because to me....it's uhhh...well, it's not exactly robust. Heavy? Sure! However to me, it's just a fairly large gentlemen's knife. Slender handle, slender blade, beautiful materials....that's just how it reads to me. All the knives that I consider to be big, robust, and stout are....well, they're not greenlit topics for conversation on the Porch. LOL

So, in that role of gentleman's knife, I find my #97s entirely adequate, yet can see how someone who sees them differently might be less than pleased with certain elements. As for the #23, I find that it's just at odds with my usual knife-carrying pattern (as you've seen in the EDC threads in GKD). I work in an office environment and a large pocket brick sitting in the bottom of my slacks pocket with a non-confidence-inspiring mechanical action is going to be a pass. I DO like the ones I have, because they are beautiful knives. But I'm content with them sitting in my collection chest, while others are pressed into service instead! Almost forgot, for the record, I did see the same technique that was shared in that thread and it's just candidly not for me.

 

[rpstrimple]

I've read some commentary on older threads that the 97 spring isn't as snappy because it is longer. Is it really that much longer than the 23? My quick research shows the 23 at 4.5 and the 97 at 4.6. So not much of a difference. Also the overall lengths appear to be identical. Can anyone confirm?

I do find it interesting that the 97 has two nicks which would suggest that you need the extra leverage to open it up.

 

[AZCoyote]

I remember my 97 being weaker than my 29 is. That said, my perception could be biased with regards to how easy the 97 is to open relative to its size.

I am going to scoop up another 97 as well - a Tidioute without that saber grind. This discussion warrants me giving it a second chance.

Yeah I can also confirm that the pull on my 97 is much weaker than on my 29, but I also found that the pull on my M&G 29 feels a little stronger than the pull on my tidioute 29.

 

[kamagong]

Here is a bit of a thought exercise for you fellas - well... maybe not an exercise but just a different perspective.

Let's remove other knives from the equation (i.e. modern folders, fixed blades, etc.) and the 97 is the one knife available to you that is suitable for large and/or working tasks. Would you still be comfortable in its ability to meet your needs without fear of the blade closing on you? The reason behind a stiffer spring is that it keeps the blade from closing when you do not want it to. Sure, it makes it more difficult to open but it goes both ways - it makes it harder to close as well.

The example that I got was the Northfield with the saber grind and double pulls. Saber grinds on these knives result in a very sturdy blade and the double pulls elicit an assumption that the knife is going to have a stiff action - hence the extra leverage that the forward nail nick would provide. Instead, I had a knife where the action gave me no confidence in its safety as a working knife. It's a long, sturdy blade - one that could get caught up in all sorts of stuff that you might be working on and it would take almost nothing for it to fold on itself. In my mind, that is a significant design flaw.

I hold to my opinion that the weak action on the 97s was a very poor choice on GEC's part. Sure, they are beautiful knives and look great in any collection but, to echo Forrest's sentiments, it is not a knife that I would ever rely on for my heavier tasks - I have more suitable blades for such things and am happy that my choices are not limited to just the 97 pattern.

(Now, I am still inclined to try one of the Tidioutes - a long blade with a full flat grind has lots of merits)

IMO a 4.75” slipjoint is no longer a pocketknife. I have little to no interest in slipjoints of that size. At that point it is time to grab a fixed blade.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Well looks like JSR sports won the drawing... odd that it’s a distributor and not a person, huh?

 

[Peter Cho]

Well I’m holding the #33 I’ve been waiting for. I want you guys to chime in here.

1. Looks like the blades are right against their respective liners. You can see the oil pool up on the master blade where the tip rests against it.
2. The pen blade has a nearly obscured nail nick, and you’ll notice that the tip is just short of proud. I will not be filing the kick on this one: looks like the pen blade will have to become a Spey and then a sheepsfoot.

I like the bone, the color, the jigging, the shield, and even the size. I understand not wanting collisions of the blades, but there’s a country mile in there. What do you guys think? Pics to illustrate.

I think it’s got potential, I’m just wondering if the execution just isn’t there?

having the pen tip nearly proud but the nail nick nearly obscured would irk me; I would probably end up just filing the point of the pen blade down until it was good and safe (no longer bothering me)

 

[Will Power]

IMO a 4.75” slipjoint is no longer a pocketknife. I have little to no interest in slipjoints of that size. At that point it is time to grab a fixed blade.

Absolutely. For me, a pocket-knife is a knife I can carry with ease in the trouser or jean's pocket. Not one that needs a sheath, weighs down your pocket like a brick or has to be carried in a bag or winter-coat pocket. If so, it defeats all the advantages of a folding knife and gives none of a fixed one We all have different tastes though, weird though they can be

 

[kamagong]

If so, it defeats all the advantages of a folding knife and gives none of a fixed one...

You are obviously a man of intellect Will.

 

[Cooter Brown]

I went and looked for this old post from Gary, I presented some bad information, he doesn't mention anything about the pull, just the physical replication of the pattern. I apologize for that misinformation and hopefully we can get a confirmation on the pull from someone who has handled a few of these old knives.

For what it's worth I have the same recollection as you--in a previous discussion of the 97 someone said that the GEC version of the pattern had pulls similar to the original knives--even in excellent condition--of this type he'd handled. I don't remember who it was, but it was someone with credibility around here who would know that sort of thing.

Hopefully that person will see this discussion and chime in.

 

[NLB5000]

Yeah I can also confirm that the pull on my 97 is much weaker than on my 29, but I also found that the pull on my M&G 29 feels a little stronger than the pull on my tidioute 29.

I have been lurking here for a while, but never posted before, but with all this discussion around the 97 I wanted to chime in.

I have a maroon micarta 97, and as far as reference to other GEC patterns I have owned it has a similar pull to me as my 54, but is lighter than my 71. I find it to be totally adequate, and easily pinchable thanks to the tall peak on the clip point. It definately has a good amount of snap open and to half stop. Maybe the pulls on some of the later variants were weaker?

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Hi folks, sorry to butt in again, can anyone help me? I’m curious to know if/what single blade sheepsfoot slipjoints have come out of the GEC factory. The model name or number would be super helpful.
Thank you all in advance.

 

[EngrSorenson]

having the pen tip nearly proud but the nail nick nearly obscured would irk me; I would probably end up just filing the point of the pen blade down until it was good and safe (no longer bothering me)

So I decided to keep the knife, and now after sharpening this sucker I’m left with regrets. I should have known something was up and left well enough alone and shipped the thing back.

1. The amount of sharpening required to undo the uneven, wandering bevel GEC put on this knife immediately brought the pen blade proud. I’ve filed the tip into a weird spey blade.
   
2. The main clip had damage at the tip which resembled what I’ve seen on my SAK main; closing the knife by letting it shut causes the blade to crash into the catch bit. It’s near proud right now, and I can’t bury it without putting the edge at risk.

i know what I’m going to hear: “well don’t let the main snap shut on it’s own!”. I don’t believe a knife should require babying when closing or opening.

im very disappointed. I feel like I’ve wasted my time trying to correct defects, and now there’s no way I’m returning this thing. It was clearly made to look at, not to use.

 

[Pàdruig]

Hi folks, sorry to butt in again, can anyone help me? I’m curious to know if/what single blade sheepsfoot slipjoints have come out of the GEC factory. The model name or number would be super helpful.
Thank you all in advance.

I don't have any sort of list in front of me in order to answer your question but a number of patterns that come to mind are:

• #15
  
• #47 Hay'n Helper (single blade version)
  
• #77 (Pretty sure there are some Barlows that came with a single blade Sheepfoot)
  
• #25
• #93 (still a sheepfoot despite the Ramfoot designation)
  
• #86 2019 Forum Knife

Those are the ones I can think of at the moment.

 

[JohnDF]

I think most would agree that a pull weight of #5 or #6 is about perfect.
The problems and complaints come when the pulls go up or down a couple of points.
I, for one, am just fine with the pull going up to a #7 or a #8 and I actually enjoy it.
But a pull of #3 or #4 is an absolute no-go and the knife will go on down the road quickly.
This seems to be the opposite for some people and they will keep the lighter and sell the stronger.
I've had to sell three Calf Roper Stockmen because of light pulls. Even though I loved the knives I couldn't live with the pulls.

 

[MCar]

I think you have me mixed up with @ENG Sorenson...

Ah! My apologies. That's an unfortunate mistake on my part.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

I don't have any sort of list in front of me in order to answer your question but a number of patterns that come to mind are:

• #15
  
• #47 Hay'n Helper (single blade version)
  
• #77 (Pretty sure there are some Barlows that came with a single blade Sheepfoot)
  
• #25
• #93 (still a sheepfoot despite the Ramfoot designation)
  
• #86 2019 Forum Knife

Those are the ones I can think of at the moment.

Thank you for the reply. Which now leads me to a second question...is the term sheepsfoot and ramsfoot interchangeable? Are they the same blade?
I was under the assumption that a sheepsfoot was something between a lambsfoot and a ramsfoot.

 

[Pàdruig]

Thank you for the reply. Which now leads me to a second question...is the term sheepsfoot and ramsfoot interchangeable? Are they the same blade?
I was under the assumption that a sheepsfoot was something between a lambsfoot and a ramsfoot.

I had never heard of a Ramfoot blade until the #93s were announced. Someone more knowledgeable than I might chime in but I'm pretty certain it's a term that was used to market this particular GEC pattern.

It's still just a sheepfoot blade, broad as it may be.

 

[AZCoyote]

Thank you for the reply. Which now leads me to a second question...is the term sheepsfoot and ramsfoot interchangeable? Are they the same blade?
I was under the assumption that a sheepsfoot was something between a lambsfoot and a ramsfoot.

Difference between the ramsfoot, sheepsfoot, and lambsfoot has to do with how the height of the blade changes along the length of the blade. A sheeps foot blade cutting edge and spine of the blade remains parallel down the length of the blade. On a lambsfoot as you get closer to the tip of the blade the lambsfoot blade will have a slight taper. The ramsfoot blade is the opposite of the lambsfoot, the height from the cutting edge to the spine will increase as you get closer to the tip of the blade.

 

[akaMatt]

So I decided to keep the knife, and now after sharpening this sucker I’m left with regrets. I should have known something was up and left well enough alone and shipped the thing back.

1. The amount of sharpening required to undo the uneven, wandering bevel GEC put on this knife immediately brought the pen blade proud. I’ve filed the tip into a weird spey blade.
   
2. The main clip had damage at the tip which resembled what I’ve seen on my SAK main; closing the knife by letting it shut causes the blade to crash into the catch bit. It’s near proud right now, and I can’t bury it without putting the edge at risk.

i know what I’m going to hear: “well don’t let the main snap shut on it’s own!”. I don’t believe a knife should require babying when closing or opening.

im very disappointed. I feel like I’ve wasted my time trying to correct defects, and now there’s no way I’m returning this thing. It was clearly made to look at, not to use.

That's too bad you're not happy with how that is turning out... but, I have to say... I love the shape you put on that pen blade! Great job on that one!