Lets talk GEC!

[2Dead]

Is that an SFO GEC 92 or an amazingly similar knife from another manufacturer?

That knife is a GEC made SFO. It is the second knife made for JBF Champlin and was made along with the first run of bareheaded #92 Eureka Jacks.

"I imagine they want to expand on normal runs and it will limit the availability to do SFO's.
They'll make more of each run since everyone complains about the knives selling out so fast so they need to up their numbers.
Which will take away from the number of SFO's."

"They need to feed the distributor/dealer network. With the surging popularity and several more dealers opening up the demand has increased significantly.
I suspect dealers, particularly the larger ones, are getting less knives as a result. SFO's cut into that even more. Limit them for a couple years and play catch up."

"It sounds like all the SFO's are hurting the retailers who don't have any new GECs to sell (several dealers still have unsold knives from 08) because GEC is busy making SFO's instead of regular runs."


Purely speculation though but makes sense in my mind. We've seen how many runs of 15's in the past 2-3 years, 77's etc.
While I love both Charlie and Mike's SFO's a case could be made that many of use would like to see new runs of old patterns (92's have yet to make a re-appearance)

Actually Tim, there has been more than 1 run of #92s so far... The JBFs and 2 blade ones without end caps were the first run. The second run came as two blade models with end caps. The third run were single blade spear and wharncliffe models. I don't believe there's been a fourth run yet. The first two were in 2013 and the single blades were 2014.

 

[Shaggy]

Is that an SFO GEC 92 or an amazingly similar knife from another manufacturer?

"Eureka Jack" SFO commissioned by JBF Champlin, made by GEC which later released their own version as the 92 frame.

EDIT: just saw Trand's post. He owns the most amazing version of this knife!

 

[2Dead]

Thanks Shaggy Not sure its the most amazing but it's the most popcorn stag I have.






And here's a pic of the bareheaded first run.

 

[jrawk]

My guess is (and this is purely a guess) that retailers previously not engaged in SFOs have noticed how quickly the exclusive SFO batches sell out, and now they want to get in on that seemingly guaranteed profit. Then there are also the guys like Rob on the ApostleP youtube channel that keep hinting of their own SFO (heh, you can do it, rob!). So, GEC is probably seeing the most requests for information on the SFO process and simply trying to tame the herd a bit. Also without CSC in operation, there's one less provider out there to choose from.

 

[Halfneck]

Trand that stag is nice, but that other one is my favorite version. To me the #92 Eureka Jack just looks best bareheaded - love my Ebony #92. I also think the long matchstrike pull goes great with it. Nice collection of #92s.

 

[JSCHENK]

As much as I like the SFO's and the thrill of the hunt. I think more standard run knives would be nice more of a fair chance to see them made first, and all to start the buying clamor at the same time

 

[Ramrodmb]

I don't understand this thought process. Everyone has the same opportunity to get in on the SFO's as well. You just might have to plan ahead a little bit.
Less SFO's just mean less choices and I dont see how that bodes well for anyone..?

 

[cbr1000]

If they change the process I hope they grandfather some SFO's so the people that collect that series can continue to do so. I think the SFO's sell out quickly because people want to add to their collection of that series. For example, Washington Jacks, or the ancient run from Charlie's inspiration. You would think that if they stop making these, and primarily focus on their regular run, people are going to move on to something else. Am I wrong in thinking the SFO's from Bob, Mike, Derrick, and Charlie have helped create demand for GEC's regular line versus taking away volume from their regular runs?

 

[zolthar]

WOW That's some stunning stag!

 

[GaiusJulius]

I think the issue is likely one of growing pains. At the beginning GEC was more than happy to do SFOs for anyone who asked, because business is better than no business, and if you have excess production capacity, you would be more than happy to use it and sell more knives when a fellow wants to place a big order. Now, however, they seem to be running at capacity all the time. Every knife they make, they sell, to one dealer or another, and most of them fly off the virtual shelves quickly. For people who don't salivate over knives daily and plan their acquisitions months in advance with early reserves, being quick on the button to reserve or purchase desirable patterns, it's rather difficult to get a nice knife -which means in the long run, that it's hard to expand the customer base. Anyone can buy a plain pruning knife, or a bird hook knife, because those are rather niche knives, but a guy who wants a Barlow, viper, coyote, bullet end jack, etc. is pretty much SOL without a serious investment of time. Ergo, an obvious way to fix this is to diversify the dealer base -but those dealers need knives. If the SFOs are taking up a third of the factory's yearly capacity, that makes it harder to produce enough "normal" knives that can be distributed more evenly.

My fear with this is that I think a big reason the SFOs are as popular as they are is because most of the standard GEC trim is, well, boring. I like ornate knives with pinched and fluted bolsters, attractive shields, and interesting materials, and I think, for better or worse, most of the SFOs are more interesting than the regular production. They are available in more variations, and often seem a little better thought-out. So, if this rumor is true, and I think there have been rumblings about it for some time, then I hope GEC's own design department steps up to the plate to fill the void.

Of course, optimally GEC would just increase their production capacity..... But that is much easier said than done, obviously.

 

[Cory Hess]

I don't understand this thought process. Everyone has the same opportunity to get in on the SFO's as well. You just might have to plan ahead a little bit.
Less SFO's just mean less choices and I dont see how that bodes well for anyone..?

Less SFOs means less choices in handle options for a particular pattern, but probably also means that there are more options between patterns. Most of the SFOs being run seem to be an "exclusive" handle option for a pattern that they're running already. For example, the coyote has 3 SFOs which are the exact same knife with a different handle option. If getting rid of all these add-on SFOs means that they can produce a couple extra patterns every year I'd be all for it. They'll still be making the same number of knives, possibly even more as they don't have to keep switching between cover materials thus allowing them to streamline their process that much more. For somebody that wants to buy 10 coyotes all in different cover materials it's a bad thing, but for those of us that will pick out their favorite coyote and just buy the one it's a good thing as there will be more of each cover material, and there will be more patterns produced which might pique my interest.

I think the SFO's sell out quickly because people want to add to their collection of that series.

Now, however, they seem to be running at capacity all the time...which means in the long run, that it's hard to expand the customer base.

If you combine these two quotes I think you get a picture of how less SFOs make perfect sense to GEC. Any business is well served to expand their customer base. The more customers you have the more stable your business is. Also, if you want to grow your business you need a larger customer base to support that expansion. Their current model promotes an environment in which a small number of collectors each buy a large number of each pattern that they produce. People want to complete their set, so when GEC makes vipers in 10 different handle options you end up with a number of people that buy 10 vipers each. If you only make it in 5 handle options those collectors will only buy 5 each, which will leave more inventory for new customers to buy. The dealers are clamoring to get as many knives as they can either way, so GEC is selling out as fast as they can make them whether they're making more handle options or not. There's currently very little incentive, that I can see, for GEC to continue to take these add-on SFOs. I would guess that these are the ones that GEC is talking about cutting down on, not the TC or NF barlows.

I openly admit that I have no information about this issue at all. This is just my guess as to what makes the most sense from what little I know about GEC.

 

[knifeswapper]

My 2cents.
It is a cycle that happens in most industries. With expendable income available these days there is a lot of demand, especially for the more popular patterns. This demand has gotten the attention of many dealers that had no interest previously, and are now wanting to pull their market share from the dealers that have been with GEC for a long time. This is a positive for most customers as their buying choices will increase at the cost of inventory depth of more established dealers. I expect GEC is interested in increasing capacity but they have to be careful. These trends can reverse very easily when the economy does the same. When expendable income goes away, dealers will either start cancelling orders or disappear altogether. GEC started with several well established, but not huge, slipjoint dealers. During the economy downturn of 2008/9 they lost a large portion of them. So growth has to be managed somehow, such that a market hiccup does not require layoffs of employees that become like family.

A lot of the SFO's are what I call "add on" and really just a way for a specific dealer to get the variation they want. Most production runs are based on the orders of the dealers; thus there is no real limit when the factory takes pre-orders from dealers. But, when the schedule requires certain knives to be done for a milestone (for example the Oregon knife show), the numbers have to be limited to those that can be completed in the timeframe. So if the factory knows they can only make 1000 knives in the time allotted, they can't really allow "add on" sfo's without shorting everyone else. I haven't heard anything that makes me believe those patterns that have been wholly sfo's previously (example: 77 barlows), would be eliminated as such.

Also, if the factory keeps growing their dealer base and the market continues to grow - they can't make enough knives to satisfy all dealer pre-orders. If they did, they might be making a beer scout for 3 months straight. And we hear enough about the current lack of output variation, that there would surely be an uprising if they only put out 3-4 production runs a year. Thus, there are some complex issues at hand; but I have every faith that they can figure this out and keep all us knife nuts satisfied going forward.

 

[knifeswapper]

I was typing my response and didn't see Cory's; but as you can see there is a bit of overlap in thoughts.

 

[MerryMadMonk]

[...] My fear with this is that I think a big reason the SFOs are as popular as they are is because most of the standard GEC trim is, well, boring. I like ornate knives with pinched and fluted bolsters, attractive shields, and interesting materials, and I think, for better or worse, most of the SFOs are more interesting than the regular production. They are available in more variations, and often seem a little better thought-out. [...]

Here's a mix of SFO and Regular Production. IMHO, an experienced knife collector, new to Great Eastern Cutlery, would be very hard-pressed to know the difference...

BTW, you look good in Gold, GaiusJulius! :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[draggat]

Here's a mix of SFO and Regular Production. IMHO, an experienced knife collector, new to Great Eastern Cutlery, would be very hard-pressed to know the difference...

BTW, you look good in Gold, GaiusJulius! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Al, that's a nice group there, loaded down with SFO's!

I look at the bright side. The SFO's will be that much more collectible now.

 

[GaiusJulius]

Here's a mix of SFO and Regular Production. IMHO, an experienced knife collector, new to Great Eastern Cutlery, would be very hard-pressed to know the difference...

Yes, I don't think there's any difference in "intrinsic quality," but at the same time, who can deny that the little details that separate, say, a Yellow Rose, from a standard Northfield or Tidioute, make the hobby more interesting (whether a Yellow Rose is to everyone's particular taste or not.)

That said, IF there is a scaling-back of SFOs, it might just affect the tack-on orders and not the more unique or "innovative" ones. Only GEC knows how best to handle the thorny question of expanding their dealer network, satisfying their customers (both new and long term) and producing plenty of interesting, unique, and high quality knives.

BTW, you look good in Gold, GaiusJulius! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thanks!

 

[cbr1000]

Here's a mix of SFO and Regular Production. IMHO, an experienced knife collector, new to Great Eastern Cutlery, would be very hard-pressed to know the difference...

BTW, you look good in Gold, GaiusJulius! :thumbup: :thumbup:

If they were new to GEC they would not be able to tell the difference. With that in mind, if you told them you will give them 10 knives in this picture, I bet they would pick out 10 SFO's.

 

[tdkfm]

If they were new to GEC they would not be able to tell the difference. With that in mind, if you told them you will give them 10 knives in this picture, I bet they would pick out 10 SFO's.

And now who else besides me is sitting here trying to decide which ten they want?

 

[heefageLA]

Here's a mix of SFO and Regular Production. IMHO, an experienced knife collector, new to Great Eastern Cutlery, would be very hard-pressed to know the difference...

BTW, you look good in Gold, GaiusJulius! :thumbup: :thumbup:

So, I just have to ask... (jokingly) Did you place each knife there or dump them out on those bricks like a bag of candy?

No way any sane minded knife guy would dump all those beauties on the ground!

 

[cbr1000]

And now who else besides me is sitting here trying to decide which ten they want?

lol, I did.. I'd take all the 85's, all the NF barlows, the ancient, the 77 oily creek bone (not an SFO - but doesn't count because they only made 9), and the tortoise shell 21 (I think that's what it is?) , and the red washington jack!