Lets talk GEC!

Well said John. And, what if you're not first in line. Will the dealer then just say "you're getting the best", after all he'd be telling the truth. If you feel that GEC is failing in their QC then it's time to move on.

Alan
 
In my opinion, over the last half decade the majority of customers have become far more demanding when it comes to traditionals than in the past. I can think of several dealers who have been driven to distraction by customers repeatedly returning knives that had what would previously been considered individualities but are now unacceptable flaws. I think it's safe to say that none of our GEC dealers are making Trumpesque sums of money, so unless I get a total lemon (in which case I would return it - but I've never yet had to do so thank goodness) I'm prepared to cut them some slack.


- Paul
 
Actually, there's a lot of talk about GEC and that's very good. I welcome all experiences though, good and bad as we need perspective.

Paul I tend to agree, I suspect there are some tiresome perfectionistas who have been giving dealers the run-around over marginal issues, or buyer's remorse... Largely people with scant experience of Traditionals, depend on it.

If GEC didn't exist, we'd have to invent it! :D :eek: :D
 
pmew said:
In my opinion, over the last half decade the majority of customers have become far more demanding when it comes to traditionals than in the past. I can think of several dealers who have been driven to distraction by customers repeatedly returning knives that had what would previously been considered individualities but are now unacceptable flaws. I think it's safe to say that none of our GEC dealers are making Trumpesque sums of money, so unless I get a total lemon (in which case I would return it - but I've never yet had to do so thank goodness) I'm prepared to cut them some slack.


- Paul
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Agreed. Some of the stories dealers have posted on their blogs are completely ridiculous.

That being said there's definitely a line somewhere. I mean, QC is a need somewhere along the line, and if it slips through at the factory, the dealer should catch the problem before it gets sent to the customer. I know dealers are busy themselves but when they are selling knives that generally cost above $75, sometimes well north of $100 -the customer has a right to expect good quality at that price. Blades that don't wobble, half stops that are solid, blades that aren't so off-center that they rub the liner, backsprings that are flush when open and flush when closed, etc. I think most of us would agree that these are reasonable and not excessive expectations. So shouldn't we expect the dealer, who knows the factory a lot better than we do, and wants to keep our business, would weed out any that don't meet basic mechanical fit-and-finish, and send them back for repair before they see the inside of a customer's mailbox?

I don't blame dealers at all who don't want to take customer cosmetic requests, i.e., "pick me out some cocobolo with really straight grain and bright color" because so much of that is a pain, subjective, and perhaps unfair to later customers. But I do think if the customer says "please make sure my knife doesn't have any blade rub" that's reasonable, unless it's a pattern or design where blade rub is probably just going to be part of the equation, like single-spring penknives or split-back whittlers.
 
gunstockjack said:
C'mon John. Be realistic. Dealers cannot be expected to inspect every knife with a 10X loup, nor can they be expected to check each and every knife that is shipped.

If you receive a knife from a GEC distributor that you don't feel qualifies as a first-rate factory run example, I would expect that the dealer would make it right, as GEC will stand behind their product.

I am simply saying that overseas shipping is labor intensive and expensive, and that those knives shipping overseas should be given a general inspection. If I come across a knife that I feel isn't up to snuff, or was somehow missed by factory QC, that knife is sent back to the factory for repair or credit.
Click to expand...

Barry, I wasn't busting on you and sorry if it came across that way. I understand that all good dealers want to make sure their customers are satisfied and to avoid returns, especially those that would unduly burden the customer because of distance.

I just think it's a slippery slope, and can result in extra work for the vendor and a two-tiered clientele - those who know to ask for the "good ones" and those who just get whatever is shipped.

If the policy is to open a knife and do a quick visual to make sure it doesn't have any flaws that are worthy of return to factory, that's the dealer's prerogative (assuming the customer doesn't want undisturbed packaging). My concern would be if it went beyond "within factory spec but maybe not perfect" to "cherry picking only the best".

I am not a very picky customer. I have never returned a knife to a dealer or a private seller. There is one Case dealer who sent me a couple of knives that had clearly been returned to them by some other customer and were then resold to me with no indication of them being "open box/returns". Both knives had issues and I could tell exactly why they were returned. I fixed both of them with a little effort and they are among my most frequently carried knives. That doesn't excuse the vendor, but I have learned to deal with the little variations in quality.

I had a GEC #15 knife I bought NIT from a dealer here that was a nightmare to open. It was almost the first one I ever sent back. It was actually un-usable in that state. But following steps I had learned on this forum, I was able to get it resolved without dealer or factory involvement and now it's a fine knife. Just needed a really thorough joint flushing and manipulation to clean out some grit stuck in the pivot. Took several tries and a bit of work but finally resolved it when whatever it was dislodged.

And I know that particular knife had been inspected (or at least handled) by the dealer because it was the exact one he used as the photo on the web site for that entire run of knives.

Not sure if I have a point, other than I don't want to get someone else's discards just because I am not a demanding customer. And that customers can increase their happiness by learning to accept a few flaws as being normal.
 
GaiusJulius said:
Agreed. Some of the stories dealers have posted on their blogs are completely ridiculous.

That being said there's definitely a line somewhere. I mean, QC is a need somewhere along the line, and if it slips through at the factory, the dealer should catch the problem before it gets sent to the customer. I know dealers are busy themselves but when they are selling knives that generally cost above $75, sometimes well north of $100 -the customer has a right to expect good quality at that price. Blades that don't wobble, half stops that are solid, blades that aren't so off-center that they rub the liner, backsprings that are flush when open and flush when closed, etc. I think most of us would agree that these are reasonable and not excessive expectations. So shouldn't we expect the dealer, who knows the factory a lot better than we do, and wants to keep our business, would weed out any that don't meet basic mechanical fit-and-finish, and send them back for repair before they see the inside of a customer's mailbox?

I don't blame dealers at all who don't want to take customer cosmetic requests, i.e., "pick me out some cocobolo with really straight grain and bright color" because so much of that is a pain, subjective, and perhaps unfair to later customers. But I do think if the customer says "please make sure my knife doesn't have any blade rub" that's reasonable, unless it's a pattern or design where blade rub is probably just going to be part of the equation, like single-spring penknives or split-back whittlers.
Click to expand...

So you're saying, a dealer that sells 10,000 knives a year should check each knife for the above issues? What, say, 5 minutes per knife? !0,000 X 5 / 60 equals more than two weeks full time work. Just how much profit do you think is involved for all that extra labor? Not nearly enough, I can tell you.

In the end, it's up to the customer to look at all these issues, if he is that paticular. If you don't like it, send it back. Production knives are NOT CUSTOM knives and will not have the same build.

Give an honest dealer a chance to make enough money to at least pay his expenses, and make a small profit for cryin' out loud.

I am done with this conversation.

Edited to add: $100 gets me one hour of labor at my auto mechanic, so let's keep things in perspective please.
 
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jc57 said:
Barry, I wasn't busting on you and sorry if it came across that way. I understand that all good dealers want to make sure their customers are satisfied and to avoid returns, especially those that would unduly burden the customer because of distance.

I just think it's a slippery slope, and can result in extra work for the vendor and a two-tiered clientele - those who know to ask for the "good ones" and those who just get whatever is shipped.

If the policy is to open a knife and do a quick visual to make sure it doesn't have any flaws that are worthy of return to factory, that's the dealer's prerogative (assuming the customer doesn't want undisturbed packaging). My concern would be if it went beyond "within factory spec but maybe not perfect" to "cherry picking only the best".

I am not a very picky customer. I have never returned a knife to a dealer or a private seller. There is one Case dealer who sent me a couple of knives that had clearly been returned to them by some other customer and were then resold to me with no indication of them being "open box/returns". Both knives had issues and I could tell exactly why they were returned. I fixed both of them with a little effort and they are among my most frequently carried knives. That doesn't excuse the vendor, but I have learned to deal with the little variations in quality.

I had a GEC #15 knife I bought NIT from a dealer here that was a nightmare to open. It was almost the first one I ever sent back. It was actually un-usable in that state. But following steps I had learned on this forum, I was able to get it resolved without dealer or factory involvement and now it's a fine knife. Just needed a really thorough joint flushing and manipulation to clean out some grit stuck in the pivot. Took several tries and a bit of work but finally resolved it when whatever it was dislodged.

And I know that particular knife had been inspected (or at least handled) by the dealer because it was the exact one he used as the photo on the web site for that entire run of knives.

Not sure if I have a point, other than I don't want to get someone else's discards just because I am not a demanding customer. And that customers can increase their happiness by learning to accept a few flaws as being normal.
Click to expand...

I don't think any reputable dealer would knowingly sell a knife that had an obvious defect for full list price. Knives in this condition are returned to the factory where all is made well and whole again. :)
 
Ok, maybe I'm out of line. I thought you were just saying it was reasonable for the dealer to check for really big fit and finish issues before the knife left his premises? If I pay my auto mechanic $100 in parts, I hope he makes sure they work before he gives the car back to me?

I'm a watchmaker. I always check the watches I know are being taken overseas extra carefully since returning them for a warranty issue is going to be a big deal. But I give new sales a once-over too. I get that it's a hassle to pop a tube and make sure the blades open and close, but I just assumed it was probably routine. My mistake.

Edited to add: if a dealer charges a $2.00 handling fee or raises his price by a couple bucks, the resulting $20,000 per year on his 10,000 knives should cover the extra minute per knife, to prevent a customer getting a bad one. I think most people would happily pay a fraction more for the better service. But I hesitate to even say this because by and large the dealer service I have received has been superb, and it is not my place to tell anyone how to run his business. I've never ordered from you, Barry, but I have nothing but the highest respect for you and your fellow dealers who bend over backward to sell us knives.

Anyway, I think I'm done here too. I never intended to piss anyone off but I seem to be rubbing everyone's feathers the wrong way so I'm out for now.
 
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Quality Control and Inspection happens where it should, at the factory. Dealers inspect at their discretion or by specific request.

At the auto repair shop, $100 does not get you parts, only labor for an hour (including their labor cost plus overhead, which can be substantial). Parts that fail prematurely may be covered by replacement, but the labor to install same is not. Electrical parts are never covered in my experience.
 
It appears that GEC business is so good SOME dealers - not directed toward you Jack - are unable to provide good customer service. It seems customers have just become a pain in the ass. A coupe of dealers have made up rules on returns and quality that are not in-line with GEC policies. Worse yet, a couple of dealers berate their own customers actions on their website blogs in attempt to garner sympathy or support from other customers. One dealer is in the habit of telling some customers to go find another dealer.

Its rare to hear, "thank you" from a dealer these days. There is little or no loyalty among dealers with customers these days.

And conversely, MY dealer sent along a new GEC knife as a gift with my most current order.

If a dealer is selling many knives and doesn't have enough time to provide good service maybe a there should be a discussion with GEC on mark up and profit the dealer earns.



gunstockjack said:
C'mon John. Be realistic. Dealers cannot be expected to inspect every knife with a 10X loup, nor can they be expected to check each and every knife that is shipped.

If you receive a knife from a GEC distributor that you don't feel qualifies as a first-rate factory run example, I would expect that the dealer would make it right, as GEC will stand behind their product.

I am simply saying that overseas shipping is labor intensive and expensive, and that those knives shipping overseas should be given a general inspection. If I come across a knife that I feel isn't up to snuff, or was somehow missed by factory QC, that knife is sent back to the factory for repair or credit.
Click to expand...
 
My .02 cents. (Literally)

A dealer I frequent always tapes a penny inside the tube for superstitions sake. Not anything spectacular, but that's just one more thing that takes time to do...
 
I've never bought a knife that I didn't get multiple thanks from the dealers. When I placed order, when I received email confirmation, when shipped and a note on receipt of the knife. I don't expect more than a simple thank you for your business. I buy they sell, what more is there to a business transaction. If by chance it gets more personal, great but not needed.

Alan
 
Good for you, but there is a spectrum of customer expectations out there.

Why not a feedback system like YELP, so at least the customers and GEC knows who they are dealing with.


joeradza said:
I've never bought a knife that I didn't get multiple thanks from the dealers. When I placed order, when I received email confirmation, when shipped and a note on receipt of the knife. I don't expect more than a simple thank you for your business. I buy they sell, what more is there to a business transaction. If by chance it gets more personal, great but not needed.

Alan
Click to expand...
 
Anyone want to take a guess at what blade configurations GEC will throw on the new #35 whenever it makes its appearance this year?
 
StoneBeard said:
Anyone want to take a guess at what blade configurations GEC will throw on the new #35 whenever it makes its appearance this year?
Click to expand...

What the heck is the 35??? I just checked GECs site and saw nothing.

ETA: I need to read more before I post, I found a helpful thread with some info.
 
StoneBeard said:
Anyone want to take a guess at what blade configurations GEC will throw on the new #35 whenever it makes its appearance this year?
Click to expand...

I hope this question means we might see a stockman configuration with a main blade and some secondaries!
 
I agree with the posts above on QC and I don't think it should be a dealer responsibility - it's a GEC responsibility. As for QC, I will give an example of a SS boys knife I recently bought. It is a great knife and I am happy with it, but the shield isn't well placed. Some people will think this is a big deal, others won't even notice it. But it's definitely not great workmanship. This is not a knife I would return, nor is it a collectors copy with no flaws.

I have bought a few knives with flaws that are worse than this, and a couple with minor flaws that are even less visible. I would like to think this is about the worst I can expect to buy, and if a knife is any worse, it's either not released from the factory, or picked up by the dealer and not shipped.



Rightly or wrongly, I wonder if some of the recent demand for these SS knives out has created some production pressure?
 
I'm hoping for a 35 cattle knife with spear main , Sheepsfoot and small clip secondary . Double bomb , fleur dis lis , federal , oval or bar shield. Something other than the cloud or typical UnXLd shield.
 
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