Lets talk GEC!

Good spirited debate!

But what happens when Tesla starts selling jigged bone handle rechargeable pocket knives? Then we will be discussing volts versus amps.

I can see lots of resistance to that. Get it,,,resistance,,,?? Oh never mind. Yes coming dear!

,,,Mike in Canada
 
I had not heard that 440C was any harder on the machinery than 1095. But I do know that when they made several SS patterns yearly, they sit on shelves. Possibly the factory decided to use customers actions as a guide.
 
knifeswapper said:
I had not heard that 440C was any harder on the machinery than 1095. But I do know that when they made several SS patterns yearly, they sit on shelves. Possibly the factory decided to use customers actions as a guide.
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The stainless Navy Knife that @traumkommode modified for me is the best GEC I own in terms of fit and finish and action. I don't really like the Navy Knife blade shape, but it is a great knife in all other respects. I'm sure a lot of folks love the shape of the blade, but obviously not enough to make them sell out.
 
I wonder how much of the GEC stainless sitting on shelves had to do with other (now defunct) manufacturers offering good options in everything from 420 to CPM-154? Now that people can no longer turn to companies like CSC and Queen for their carbide fix, it seems to me there's a good chance GEC stainless products would move a lot quicker. Provided they pick patterns with more appeal than that navy knife.
 
When those stainless Navy knives finally sell out, just watch the demand skyrocket! ;)

The GEC canoe used to be pretty east to find on dealers sites...
 
*sigh* although I own a couple of the GEC versions, I also think those Navy knives were a missed opportunity - there are several historic Navy/rope knife patterns that are nicer and more functional than the Navy knife pattern that was chosen by GEC. I own a couple of older ones and they are among my favourites.
 
Stainless 15s sold out very quickly indeed, I suspect a 440c 73 single blade (the original was a 2 blade 250 knife run one of their first and thus a unknown company...) would also be keenly appreciated. Another run of stainless Conductor 33 or White Owl 68 would today go more than fast.

Same would apply to most patterns I'm sure.

The Cyclop's stamp was purged, the Squirrel & Acorns etch was abolished, the tubes that had stainless knives with the Squirrel stamp stopped... no Acorn shield anymore and no stainless knives offered for two years. It just seems like there's an apathy about stainless at GEC and provided they sell all their carbon knives then why bother? Knives cannot live by carbon alone...but they certainly can rust ;):D

Of course, if a dealer were to offer an SFO in stainless in ANY of 15, 33, 38, 44, 68,82 ( I'd buy them all :eek::D) 92 I don't think he would find himself looking at knives gathering dust on his shelves..;)
 
knifeswapper said:
I had not heard that 440C was any harder on the machinery than 1095. But I do know that when they made several SS patterns yearly, they sit on shelves. Possibly the factory decided to use customers actions as a guide.
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It depends on the knife. The Navy knife might be sitting on shelves, but it's not very mainstream knife. The stainless 15 clips blades (elk, chestnut, bone, tortoise) are rather scarce and command a high price on the secondary market. Same for the 48s. People want those.

EDIT: I suppose you probably know more than I do what sells and doesn't, being a dealer and all. But from my point of view (a consumer), I'm not looking for a pocket knife to sail the 7 seas with and cut ropes and get scurvy. I'd just like a jack or stockman or the like with GEC quality that won't get all red and black spotted when monsoon season hits in July-September.
 
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I think that post from knifeswapper about SS knives not selling is not representative - and I am not sure it was intended seriously
 
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L.H.S said:
Maybe the stainless would "bring an early demise" to the equipment at GEC, but if they're using only carbon simply to prolong the demise of their equipment that's not a very sustainable business plan is it? It certainly wouldn't make sense for GEC to plan to work themselves into extinction by wearing out their machines, only adding some extra time by using only carbon. I doubt Bill Howard doesn't look forward to passing on GEC's direction to his son. Also, unless I remember incorrectly, he has said that the disuse of stainless is as much because it doesn't sell any better than carbon. So, as is usually the case in business decisions, the cost simply outweighs the payoff.

I really appreciate the old machinery, but a sustainable system of production is necessary to keep the quality and business going (which I certainly hope happens). I have confidence they'll find a good way forward.
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If as you say the lack of stainless is as much because of sales as well as destruction of their machines they are truly between a rock and a hard place. Also, I find it hard to believe that stainless wouldn't sell well. But then it's not my business and I'm not privy to all that goes into their decisions. It also means they see the end unless they have a plan on board to replace the machinery.
As you say I hope "they'll find a good way forward."
 
When GEC was still a possibility as the knife company to make the 2018 Blade Forum's knife. And correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure I remember someone saying if we went that route and wanted our knife done in stainless steel Bill was fine with that. So I guess he's not totally against it.
 
There are probably better choices than 440C or the semi-stainless D2. Both contain really large carbides and don't take a fine edge as easily as PM steels with similar compositions. I expect that makes them a bit harder to machine. CPM154 comes to mind as a stainless at the lower end of "good" that might be both reasonable to machine and pretty good at taking a fine edge. A win for both maker and user. It actually became popular with knifemakers because it was much easier to finish than CPM30V. CPM154 or better stainless would be enough to push me into the stainless camp, but for now I prefer the fine edge that I can put on 1095 with almost no effort.
 
t.willy said:
When GEC was still a possibility as the knife company to make the 2018 Blade Forum's knife. And correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure I remember someone saying if we went that route and wanted our knife done in stainless steel Bill was fine with that. So I guess he's not totally against it.
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He has said when I asked during the tours that he is not against stainless. I think he was carrying a stainless #89 on one of the tours as his example knife.
 
I’d like a Stainless #9 or a #14 stainless clip point with caplifter. I’ve only got one stainless GEC, my DogPaw #33 and I really like it. I think those ones sat on the shelf so long because no one knew about them. It took some digging for me to find that they still had some from 2011 sitting there until the retirement sale! The other more recent stainless GEC’s came in blade shapes the didn’t appeal to me.
I’m thinking if we keep asking nicely, and giving our suggestions for what we’d like to see from GEC, rather than jumping on them for not making exactly what we want , when we want it, they’ll eventually get around to the models we’re hoping for. In the meantime they clearly are selling just about everything they can put together so I doubt they’re going to change the way they do things.
 
Camillus said:
I think that post from knifeswapper about SS knives not selling is not representative - and I am not sure it was intended seriously
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It may not be representative these days, as the largest GEC dealers now were not carrying the brand 6+ years ago. But those that have been with GEC since day one do remember how slow SS models moved. I am actually thinking of a time well before the Navy knife. There was a time when SS wasn't relegated to niche knives (Navy knives, Bird Hook Trapper, etc.); and they would sit on shelves for months.

Things may be different today, maybe not. You only find out by making a few thousand SS knives and hoping they find a market. But, that is a game of chance, which some don't have a stomach for. Sure, there is a lot of posts about wanting stainless; but that is not a new phenomenon - and it doesn't historically correlate into volume purchases. Then, as is already being mentioned in passing, there will be the conversation about "why not use a good stainless"; which has been well discussed. Or, "I don't want that pattern, but if they make this pattern in SS - I 'd buy several".

I too would like some SS models; but since the recent history is still within the bounds of my memory - I don't push it with GEC. Just like I don't request more of my favorite pattern - the canoe. Another knife that was well chattered about on the forums right up until release; then crickets chirping. And the Lady Leg, the GEC let a large blue reseller talk them into - then crickets. I don't think everyone realizes the implications of small companies having tens of thousands of dollars worth of product sitting for months on the shelf.

In 2014 I had accumulated some cash in the business account and contacted GEC about buying some of their inventory. When the box arrived, it had a large percentage of 3-4 year old varying SS models. So they were carrying a lot of them on their books for several years. Thus, you can somewhat see justification for pause from them in a time where their runs need to be 2-3k knives for economy of scale.

2018 is a new day in traditionals and the SS market may be gang-busters now. And my actual experience may not be representative of others expected experience - but in my mind history still needs to participate in the thought process.
 
Thanks for the history, knifeswapper. I wonder if some of the problem is perceived quality - I certainly have a bias toward carbon given how much crappy stainless was used in the past. Carbon has always been a good bet.
 
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