Lets talk GEC!

[analog001]

Thanks for all of the Rotten Banana Bone info. It sounds like there may be hope for a future run.

 

[JTB_5]

Anyone else finding it funny that the concurrent conversation going on recently involves complaints/defenses of GEC and rotten bananas? I suppose it would be funnier if there were such a thing as sour grapes bone, huh?

 

[johnny twoshoes]

Why aren’t rotten banana knives cheaper than ripe banana bones?!?!

 

[Will Power]

They take more time to produce....

Why isn't vintage wine cheaper than new?

 

[Norcaldude]

I have a Rotten Banana Bone Northfield Jack from the first run of 66s this pre-dates all other RB. Nothing wrong with this one...

Of course Bill Howard makes mistakes How about the extinction of stainless? Then there was that weird, formerly people might've said queer.... knife that had a saw and was about as big as a trowel If you don't make mistakes, you're not human

They sell all the knives they make, pretty much. To the point of people complaining about not being able to buy them for the prices that others complain are too high.

So, from a business stand point, not using stainless steel doesn't seem like much of a mistake.

And those big trowel knives, I'm guessing you mean the Lumberjack, sell for small fortunes when you can find one for sale, so I'm not sure those were exactly mistakes either.

 

[Will Power]

Anyone else finding it funny that the concurrent conversation going on recently involves complaints/defenses of GEC and rotten bananas? I suppose it would be funnier if there were such a thing as sour grapes bone, huh?

Sour Grapes Jig? Cool...they got near with Raisin Bone on a 62 Courthouse (or was it Outhouse?) Whittler.

How about Bitter Pill for the next SFO?

 

[JTB_5]

Sour Grapes Jig? Cool...they got near with Raisin Bone on a 62 Courthouse (or was it Outhouse?) Whittler.

How about Bitter Pill for the next SFO?

That's the spirit!

I bet they'll even let you put a suppository down on that outhouse whittler--you know, in case you have some cash-flow problems.

 

[Will Power]

They sell all the knives they make, pretty much. To the point of people complaining about not being able to buy them for the prices that others complain are too high.

So, from a business stand point, not using stainless steel doesn't seem like much of a mistake.

And those big trowel knives, I'm guessing you mean the Lumberjack, sell for small fortunes when you can find one for sale, so I'm not sure those were exactly mistakes either.

Only they don't collect royalties from Flippers for every Lumberjack sold so it makes no difference to GEC's business well being. When released, they stayed on the shelves a good long time, maybe because the saw doesn't actually work too well apparently That I regard as a mistake.

Turning their back on stainless is a mistake, a lot of users and collectors prefer it and are not sucked into the cult idea that carbon is the only real acceptable steel for a 'traditional' pocket-knife. Long term, this could be a costly error.

Regards, Will

 

[Norcaldude]

Only they don't collect royalties from Flippers for every Lumberjack sold so it makes no difference to GEC's business well being. When released, they stayed on the shelves a good long time, maybe because the saw doesn't actually work too well apparently That I regard as a mistake.

Turning their back on stainless is a mistake, a lot of users and collectors prefer it and are not sucked into the cult idea that carbon is the only real acceptable steel for a 'traditional' pocket-knife. Long term, this could be a costly error.

There was a time when most GEC knives sat on shelves. That time is no longer though and all of those Lumberjacks are sold now.

As for your comment about carbon steel being a 'cult idea', I'm not sure what drives you to insult people that disagree with you.

It sure looks like a mistake, how those carbon steel 15s are selling out in minutes. Users and collectors are obviously snubbing these carbon steel GEC knives.

You keep tilting at that windmill, Don.

.

 

[joeradza]

Will Power Will, I can only guess that your insistence on a desire for GEC to make stainless knives has to be tongue in cheek at this point. You know that it is common knowledge that stainless would bring an early demise to the machines that are currently in use by GEC.

 

[Planterz]

As much as I want more stainless from GEC, I wouldn't call it a mistake by them to not offer it more (or ever again). They sell what they produce already, and production is maxed out. Making more stainless isn't necessary for them to stay in the market at this present time.

 

[gaj999]

Turning their back on stainless is a mistake...

I don't see how.

a) 1095 is easy to machine and heat treat. Stainless steels that are as easy to work with are utter crap. Actually, I wonder if there are ANY stainless steels that are as easy to work with - chromium carbide is hard. So tinfoil equivalents like 420J2 might just cause rapid wear to their machinery.

b) Sales are production limited. Actually, this is 90% of the argument. Maybe more.

You wanting stainless doesn't make it a bad business decision by GEC to only offer carbon.

 

[Ramrodmb]

That was the most recent run. The older run of rotten banana was an SFO from old100collectibles if I recall correctly... few years back.

The 'accidental' one was before that one. The very first one. They were 66's. Will Power

Old 100 collectibles, Bob, had a run of 14's done right before he passed. RIP

Edit: oops you guys have it all sorted out. Note to self - Read entire thread before posting.

 

[Shurke]

You wanting stainless doesn't make it a bad business decision by GEC to only offer carbon.

I guess it all depends on what the ultimate business plan is. They could expand their market and generate a larger base of loyal buyers if they offered more stainless. Generally for me it's very easy to pass on carbon steel. There have only been two GEC patterns that I couldn't say no to. If they offered more stainless, I know I for one would own many, many more of their knives, and I'm sure I'm far from the only one out there who feels that way.

 

[black mamba]

I feel that with GEC thankfully intent on keeping their quality high, the real limiting agent to increased production is qualified cutlers. The lack of skilled cutlers is what ultimately brought Queen down, as their QC was below what they had to charge to stay afloat.

 

[JTB_5]

Time for another chuckle, methinks:

 

[LastRodeo]

LastRodeo,
could you elaborate on the Rotten Banana Bone being a mistake? I have seen pictures and really liked them, and was looking forward to a release with those covers.

I will preface this with “my memory is good, except when it is not”.....

The original RBB knives were #66 pattern. They were the results of something getting dripped onto some smooth yellow bone. The subsequent RBB knives were the result of attempting to recreate the originals, but accidents are hard to recreate exactly.

http://greateasterncutlery.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/661210-rotten-bananabone23.png

 

[WoodManGM]

The reason is that I can buy knives that are comparable to GEC for cheaper prices.

From whom? Please let me know.

 

[B.F.U]

GEC seems to be on a road of steady increases in their prices. I understand rising cost of materials, labor, etc. but it won't be long before I stop buying GEC knives. GEC could fail tomorrow and I wouldn't miss them.

That just sounds like a silly statement to me. I agree that the chain adds more to the price than I expected, and certainly more than would make me want to buy it (I'm not really interested in the chain at any price), but GEC knives have not increased in price out of pace with inflation or the cost of living. A single blade #15 from this run is between $60 and $70. That's squarely within Case pricing range, for what many (most) would consider to be better fit and finish and more intrinsic value (although this is certainly personal).

Oh Boo Hoo !! There's nothing mean about saying I wouldn't miss a company that went out of business because of artificially inflated prices. I did say I would stop buying them in the future if their prices keep going up. The reason is that I can buy knives that are comparable to GEC for cheaper prices. That said, if something from GEC comes along that catches my eye at a decent price I'll most likely buy it.

That chain and fastener isn't worth twenty-bucks - my 2¢

All prices keep going up. That's not unique to or due to GEC or its business strategy, that's due to the movement of the economy and the workings of the government backed agencies that control trade and finance.

I'm not challenging you here, I'm just interested in what you are referring to when you say you can buy knives that are comparable to GEC but cheaper. I agree that you can find good deals, but it mostly depends on what you consider quality and what you value in a knife.

It has been interesting following the discussion here and elsewhere over the past few months in regards to Great Eastern Cutlery.

I'll admit, some of the tone that has been struck has been a bit surprising. But one has to remember: Every brand has its fan boys/girls and detractors. You see this time after time with just about any notable knife brand out there and it even extends beyond the realm of cutlery firms as well.

Despite me being a fan of GEC, I do my best not to deem them infallible. It is a small firm, with work being done on old machinery and by hand, there are bound to be mistakes. Despite that though, they make a fine knife and one that I am proud to own and have in pocket and hand. I look forward to each production run and try to scoop up 1 or 2 from each accordingly. I've only been doing this for about a year and a half and as a result, I've built up a nice tidy collection, augmented here and there by my good fortune in securing some older releases.

One of the things that I have seen be the cause of much of the criticism GEC faces is in regards to their pricing. It is off-putting to many, whether that be because they cannot afford it, cannot justify it, or simply do not think it worth it, they deem GEC to be too pricey. Being someone who came from the realm of modern folders (where people EDC knives that cost in the hundreds, even thousands, of dollars), I do not think GEC is too expensive at all. Retail prices range anywhere from $50-$150, depending on the pattern, of course. I cannot justify spending thousands on getting every single variation from a single run like some here can, but I can certainly afford to spend a couple hundred if the covers appeal to me. They make a fine factory knife where the quality sometimes can rival that of a very expensive custom. (I say that having read in many cases where a custom develops blade play, has weak W&T, etc)

That all being said, the small runs do create a cause and effect sort of situation where high demand and limited supply inflate prices on the secondary market. The only way to solve this is by creating much larger factory runs where I expect the quality will diminish exponentially. I would prefer to enjoy the way GEC is operating now. I may miss out on some knives, but for the most part, I am happy with what I am able to acquire. A recent run of knives that I was very interested in but could not land is going for 3-4 times the retail price in some cases and people are actually buying them. I simply refuse to engage in that sort of buying practice but it comes with the territory.

Will I miss GEC if they were to fail? Absolutely. There isn't anyone out there producing a slipjoint of similar quality at their price point (retail). At that point, I am limited to customs and Case, or new old stock from failed companies.

I will continue to support GEC's success until such a time they either go under or change the way they do things in a manner I do not agree with.

Just my couple of copper pennies worth...

Very good post. I appreciate evenheadedness.

I am also a big fan of GEC, but also don't consider them infallible. I have had issues with GEC knives. I have 3 knives at GEC right now to have issues fixed. But I still really enjoy them and think that, in general, they are priced fairly.

Will Power Will, I can only guess that your insistence on a desire for GEC to make stainless knives has to be tongue in cheek at this point. You know that it is common knowledge that stainless would bring an early demise to the machines that are currently in use by GEC.

Maybe the stainless would "bring an early demise" to the equipment at GEC, but if they're using only carbon simply to prolong the demise of their equipment that's not a very sustainable business plan is it? It certainly wouldn't make sense for GEC to plan to work themselves into extinction by wearing out their machines, only adding some extra time by using only carbon. I doubt Bill Howard doesn't look forward to passing on GEC's direction to his son. Also, unless I remember incorrectly, he has said that the disuse of stainless is as much because it doesn't sell any better than carbon. So, as is usually the case in business decisions, the cost simply outweighs the payoff.

I really appreciate the old machinery, but a sustainable system of production is necessary to keep the quality and business going (which I certainly hope happens). I have confidence they'll find a good way forward.

Also, the standard/Tidioute #15s from the recent run were really well made and quite fairly priced.

 

[JTB_5]

I don't know how the machining process works, so I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to purchase a dedicated set of machines for smaller stainless runs. I can't imagine that GEC wouldn't eventually make their money back on that investment and also be able to gain a bigger market share than they would by only using 1095. But maybe that's just one more idea for folks to chuckle about.