Lets talk GEC!

knifeswapper said:
If it worked like that - it would be alright. But they have been working for years to make more knives in each run so setup doesn't cost them so much time. My guess is production totals would be the same - just less variations. I am concerned that Bill is trying to solve the "scramble" issues by making no sfo's and large production runs of less variations. That would gain loyalty from those not nimble enough to score the short runs and lose loyalty from those that like the chase and also like to have several variations. Many folks just need one - others want a full collection for the grandkids. Please some; aggravate others.




Which one of Charlies #77's ?
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So, to be nimble is to score an SFO? And, Howard intentionally aggravates collectors and alienates current customers after spending many years emptying their bank accounts and filling his bank accounts? WOW! :cool:
 
Half/Stop said:
41653531002_837e987247_o_d.jpg
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That knife is GOLD in my book. :cool::thumbsup:

mrknife said:
now make it a single blade
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Nooooooooooo....
 
@knifeswapper

Mike, your comments hint at something I have long wondered about. Giving it your best guess, what percentage of GEC knives do you believe are bought by hard core collectors like those of us on Blade Forums? These changes make me think that we must be a fairly small minority.
 
I would think in the end it removes a lot more aggravation than it creates and if I am lucky we might see more stainless variations added in to the mix.
 
I'm imagining a #76 Gunstock, with a Cap Lifter, in Stainless, and Saw Cut Bone...
The collectors are saying, "Yes please... And produce them in very limited numbers."
The buyers/users are saying, "Yes please... In enough numbers that I can actually get one."
I guess it all depends if you want a good knife or you want exclusivity and secondary pricing.

 
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rdave said:
So, to be nimble is to score an SFO? And, Howard intentionally aggravates collectors and alienates current customers after spending many years emptying their bank accounts and filling his bank accounts? WOW! :cool:
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I believe GEC makes less money on SFOs than on their standard issue knives. Each SFO pulls in a partner who takes on some of the financial responsibility including costs for tooling. GEC has less financial outlay for the release but the partner is in turn entitled to some of the profit. The re-setting of the "production line" for each release is time not spent making knives. This decision sure seems to be a simple streamlining effort, boosting their output and see a resulting increase in their profitability.
 
JohnDF said:
I'm imagining a #76 Gunstock, with a Cap Lifter, in Stainless, and Saw Cut Bone...
The collectors are saying, "Yes please... And produce them in very limited numbers."
The buyers/users are saying, "Yes please... In enough numbers that I can actually get one."
I guess it all depends if you want a good knife or you want exclusivity.

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Does that knife have new covers?
 
JohnDF said:
I'm imagining a #76 Gunstock, with a Cap Lifter, in Stainless, and Saw Cut Bone...
The collectors are saying, "Yes please... And produce them in very limited numbers."
The buyers/users are saying, "Yes please... In enough numbers that I can actually get one."
I guess it all depends if you want a good knife or you want exclusivity.

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I would say that you're probably unintentionally blurring the lines here. I haven't seen any collectors here who have expressed happiness that there was a very limited number of something and they got one and others didn't (my opinion of those folks would drop pretty drastically if I saw that). I like to think I'm in the majority when I say that as a GEC collector I'd LOVE for SFOs to have been produced in greater numbers so that more collectors could get their hands on one.
 
Markeologist said:
I believe GEC makes less money on SFOs than on their standard issue knives. Each SFO pulls in a partner who takes on some of the financial responsibility including costs for tooling. GEC has less financial outlay for the release but the partner is in turn entitled to some of the profit. The re-setting of the "production line" for each release is time not spent making knives. This decision sure seems to be a simple streamlining effort, boosting their output and see a resulting increase in their profitability.
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Perhaps. My guess is Howard takes his profit first be it an SFO or regular run - builds a knife, marks it up, sells it to the dealer. Why would Howard take less money for building a best selling knife or SFO?
 
I think collectors enjoyed have the multitude of variations and having exclusives from select vendors but I don't think this change will stop collectors if anything it will give their wallets some relief as they won't have to buy as many.
 
Quiet said:
I would say that you're probably unintentionally blurring the lines here.
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It wasn't unintentional. It was showing extremes :D
There are lots of people out there who enjoy the exclusivity of a knife.
There are others out there that feed in the financial waters of exclusivity.
Do people want SFOs because they are better knives, or because they are exclusive or perceived as better???
I get that there are collectors that just want all the different finishes, but what about the person who just wants one? Why is it that they fight tooth-and-nail to buy a Northwoods rather than a Tidioute? You can't tell me they are a better tool. More likely because they are exclusive.
 
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JohnDF said:
It wasn't unintentional. :D
There are lots of people out there who enjoy the exclusivity of a knife.
There are others out there that feed in the financial waters of exclusivity.
Do people want SFOs because they are better knives, or because they are exclusive???
I get that there are collectors that just want all the different finishes, but what about the person who just wants one?
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Well, I for one have mostly enjoyed the SFO versions of some of the knives more than the standard runs of them. It's also a tad frustrating when you try to find a certain pattern after the fact, for example, the #29 that was done for a vendor who (since I'm not sure is a supporting vendor here) won't be named. You look around, and even head to Ebay, and all you see are the normal runs (which I have zero interest in) and none of the SFOs. That tells me which of the two types were more desirable. I have absolutely no shame in admitting that for every model I've seen or bought that GEC produces, I've enjoyed the SFO variants more than the run of the mill regular run. If GEC doesn't switch to using those sorts of materials and design choices that (now previously) went to SFO runs in their own lineup, I'm going to buying a lot fewer GEC knives. Which hey, is good for the folks who like their regular production run knives!
 
knifeswapper said:
If it worked like that - it would be alright. But they have been working for years to make more knives in each run so setup doesn't cost them so much time. My guess is production totals would be the same - just less variations. I am concerned that Bill is trying to solve the "scramble" issues by making no sfo's and large production runs of less variations. That would gain loyalty from those not nimble enough to score the short runs and lose loyalty from those that like the chase and also like to have several variations. Many folks just need one - others want a full collection for the grandkids. Please some; aggravate others.




Which one of Charlies #77's ?
Click to expand...

As a customer of CK and GEC just wanted to post, as usual you hit the nail right on the head, and count me in the not happy with the changes catagory.
 
My thoughts trend towards this Non-SFO decision as being a temporary solution to get all their ducks in a row. Get the train back on track, get production flowing in the direction they want (financially), and then figure how they want to work the SFOs back in under their new direction.

They are also probably tired of the flippers making more (easy) profit than the producer and the retailer.
I know it burns me up when I see a dozen Forum Knives (just the one's I've seen) being flipped for hundreds of dollars in profit when Mike didn't make a dime from all his hard work.
 
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rdave said:
Perhaps. My guess is Howard takes his profit first be it an SFO or regular run - builds a knife, marks it up, sells it to the dealer. Why would Howard take less money for building a best selling knife or SFO?
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Don't think he would take less money for a best selling knife, in particular if it was all GEC but the profit from the SFO is something that is shared. Need those retailers/folks who have worked with GEC on a SFO to weigh in here but I know they have a minimum order number and have to pony up funds for the run. I would assume they get that order of knives at some wholesale rate that leaves them a margin to make some profit. I doubt anybody, except perhaps the flippers, makes a great amount of money on the release of a SFO.
 
bbk357 said:
Makes me wonder if GEC will ever make another caplifter again.... :(:mad:
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Few of the cap lifters were SFOs...the BF 85, Charlie's Diamond Radio Jacks, and the Soda and Gun Scouts that tagged along with the standard Beer Scouts. Seems to me we can expect a run of something with a cap lifter in future...still holding out for a "Beer Hunter" …. throw a cap lifter on a 23 in place of the spey!!!
 
H
cbr1000 said:
As a customer of CK and GEC just wanted to post, as usual you hit the nail right on the head, and count me in the not happy with the changes catagory.
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Hilarious. So Howard changes GEC business plan out of concern for his scrambling customers? Would you think Howard's primary concern is to produce profitable knives that sell in quantities. And Howard must be crying about the non-nimble slobs (of which I am one) who can't pound on their keyboards fast enough or are not fortunate enough to get on a preferred buyers list or find a dealer to sell them all four flavors at a time or have slow wi-fi which prevents them from spending their money on their grandkids - really?

Would you think Howard would be equal opportunity, all inclusive, when it comes to selling knives GEC builds, supporting his organization and 30 some employees and paying his mortgage and having a few bucks left over to leave for his grand kids?
 
Quiet said:
Well, I for one have mostly enjoyed the SFO versions of some of the knives more than the standard runs of them. It's also a tad frustrating when you try to find a certain pattern after the fact, for example, the #29 that was done for a vendor who (since I'm not sure is a supporting vendor here) won't be named. You look around, and even head to Ebay, and all you see are the normal runs (which I have zero interest in) and none of the SFOs. That tells me which of the two types were more desirable. I have absolutely no shame in admitting that for every model I've seen or bought that GEC produces, I've enjoyed the SFO variants more than the run of the mill regular run. If GEC doesn't switch to using those sorts of materials and design choices that (now previously) went to SFO runs in their own lineup, I'm going to buying a lot fewer GEC knives. Which hey, is good for the folks who like their regular production run knives!
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An exception here in my opinion is the Beer Scout Knife. I have regular run versions as well as a SFO Soda Scout (well and a Rendezvous parts knife too), if I had to own only one, I would go with the Beer Scout (excluding that parts knife version of course).
 
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