Liner Lock Strength

Haze, laws are a funny thing. In some countries the ASP baton is considered to be on a par with a 12 gauge semi-auto shottie in terms of lethality whereas its perfectly legal to carry a knife. But cop friends of mine consider the ASP to be very much the secondary weapon and the knife a mere tool. I guess for us the knife usually comes first because we are primarily knife junkies.

I think we are saying the same thing, which is adapt to the situation at hand and carry what is most appropriate to the situation.

And have a back-up!
 
It all depends on where you are in the world. Knives are seen as ok to have in a wide variety of areas. Also, this is a knife forum and many of us carry guns but we are talking about knives for use in SD.
 
The force continuum (pyramid). verbal, oc, ppct (aikido, defensive tactics),asp, gun. Even though they teach defensive knife tactics, the knife is a tool (thankfully so). For many departments this is a gray area.
 
This thread is not about the laws, ethics, or views regarding knives for SD. Obviously we have guns, tasers, oc spray, baseball bats, brass knuckles, and a myriad of weapons to choose from improvised or not. Having said that, I have concluded that some liner locks are capable of being tested in the worst of ways. However, I would not want to trust them compared to a framelock or an axis/ball bearing style of lock. I know that some of you are thinking that a fixed blade is stronger then any of the folding knives on the market. Somehow, I think that is a safe speculation. Remember, we are talking about liner lock folding knives. Besides, a framelock is pretty much a liner lock, just better in every way imho.
 
The problem with Emerson is that the framelock knives are much scarcer and more expensive than the liner locks.

Personally I don't cleave to the tantos so that just leaves the CQC-12.

Its a magnificent blade and IMO a far better buy than a Sebenza say, but unfortunately, for reasons best known to themselves, Emerson have not produced any of these for a long time.

That said you can find one if you look hard enough and are prepared to pay a premium. In fact, I think there is one available here right now.

I would say do it, you won't be disappointed in the knife I assure you. But I would still look into a fixed blade. ;)
 
Yup, the 12 is a heck of a knife and a very tough knife to beat in any role.
I have a big thing for the 12 along with the 8 and of course P-Tacs. :):thumbup:
 
The 12 seems to be a really good knife. I hope they make more of them or somthing along the lines of the 12.
 
Of the plethora of liner locks I own, I have had two fail on me while on duty. Both were from reputable manufacturers. I sent them back and they repaired/replaced them. I sent in a LL to the one and they replaced it with an axis lock.

I've never had a lock fail during an SD encounter. I have had a few during my career. I've never had a failure on a back lock, axis, ball, or a frame lock.
 
Buffalohump said:
Carrying any weapon every day is a PITA. But the truth is the bigger the better. Jim Cirillo, who was a cop in the NYPD for 20-odd years in the stake-out squad, wrote a great book called Guns, Bullets and Gunfights (Paladin Press).

He toted a S&W .44 Magnum every day to work and when his colleagues he would rib him and ask him why he needed a hand cannon he said that because when he was in a gunfight, he wanted the biggest caliber possible so that when he hit the guy, the dude stayed down.

Of course he also didn't want to carry a brick all down so he experimented with hybrid frames that would give him a lighter weight gun that could still handle the pressures of the .44 Magnum round. He also designed his own cartridges to reduce the tendency of the .44 to travel right through the perp and take out whoever was standing behind him. He wanted all that energy to be dumped into the bad guy, not some innocent bystander.

Needless to say Jim had his own ideas and not everyone agreed with him, but he had personal experience on the street that led him to believe that was the best way forward (some 252 shootouts during his career). And he wanted to survive until he was old enough to retire. Pro hunters have a similar mindset which they boil down to a simple phrase: "carry enough gun".

The same thing applies to knives. If you're gonna carry one for self-defence, don't waste time with folders - get a fixed blade of 9,5 inches (at least) and learn to carry it every day. Otherwise you're just whistling dixie!
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i'll have to check that book out, i had heard he carried a S&W or colt .38 revolver, this is the 1st i have heard of .44 mags and handloaded ammo on duty w/the NYPD, but like i say i havent read it.

if i was a LEO i might think the same way, especially if i was on the stakeout squad, if it was me i would go w/a 1911 though, or a 12 gauge pump gun, but i am not in that situation, and yes i beleive that bigger is better when it comes to knife fighting, but like i said a knife sint my primary & i'm fine w/a good quality folder, most days anyway, key word being "good quality".
 
One thing I will say about Emerson liner locks is that when they are in the lock positon the liner lock really sticks. It takes more effort to disengage an emerson liner lock than any other liner lock knife i have ever owned. I have miles of confidence in their liner locks more so than any other manufacture.
 
I have done the "tree test" on one of my CQC7 karambits, and the lock held up just fine.

I deployed it from both pockets using the wave in a forward and reverse grip, and repeatedly stabbed into a semi-hard wood tree. No apparent play and felt rock solid.

If you are forced to draw a blade for SD, you are more likely to have your hand drift down onto the blade after a stab than have the lock fail.

Another issue is that there can be user error in not fully locking the blade open so that it closes on you after thrusting. This is not a lock failure.
 
Check it out its a great read if you are interested in ballistics and what really happens when a person is shot. Cirillo has been there and done that and its amazing what a human body can take and still keep functioning. He's had some hairy scrapes that's for sure!

SIFU1A said:
i'll have to check that book out, i had heard he carried a S&W or colt .38 revolver, this is the 1st i have heard of .44 mags and handloaded ammo on duty w/the NYPD, but like i say i havent read it.

if i was a LEO i might think the same way, especially if i was on the stakeout squad, if it was me i would go w/a 1911 though, or a 12 gauge pump gun, but i am not in that situation, and yes i beleive that bigger is better when it comes to knife fighting, but like i said a knife sint my primary & i'm fine w/a good quality folder, most days anyway, key word being "good quality".
Click to expand...
 
Buffalohump said:
Check it out its a great read if you are interested in ballistics and what really happens when a person is shot. Cirillo has been there and done that and its amazing what a human body can take and still keep functioning. He's had some hairy scrapes that's for sure!
Click to expand...


Where is the article?
 
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