Liu Kang (Dan Huang) - when is enough...well, enough?

[noeesp]

I am surprised at how many longterm members in good standing, even moderators too, have voiced their concern about LK and nothing's happend.
I am also surprised how anyone can believe that this does not affect or concern Busse Knives. "No, he's not our responsibility, we just sell him most of our knives so he can make a profit." Regarding that, the question "Who is protecting LK?" sure is interesting.
Last but not least, I am sure LK does not see how his actions were wrong - after all, there is no specific rule [yet] about exploiting wounded veterans.

Suggesting that Busse is protecting LK is ridiculous and crosses the line. If you don’t like LK for whatever reason don’t support him, don’t read his stuff, but what your saying is slanderous and I would be careful if I were you!

 

[dericdesmond]

Present us with facts that prove intentional wrong doing. . . and we will drop the hammer on LK.

Thanks, :thumbup:

Jerry .

In case any one missed it.

 

[richardallen]

Suggesting that Busse is protecting LK is ridiculous and crosses the line. If you don’t like LK for whatever reason don’t support him, don’t read his stuff, but what your saying is slanderous and I would be careful if I were you!

I am sorry if I went over the line. I'll keep my mouth shut now.

 

[Liu Kang]

Well Alex, it's nice of you to post speculation but did you actually talk to Anthony? I know I did and just called him up on the phone so he can address this issue. I was only able to leave a message. But if I remember correctly, didn't you buy a Fusion Steel Heart from him?
I don't see that he has left any positive feedback for you but I see he was happy with the transaction he did with me. You can look at my feedback on 07-21-2010 where his feedback for me on the transaction you are referring to was:
Great buyer, highly recommend, AAA++++++++++
And that wasn't the only transaction we have had, he also left me positive feedback 06-12-2010 which was:
Great buyer .....recommend.....A+
And on 12-03-2009:
Great man Dan. A++++++++ All the way .........

So it was not the first time we had a transaction. So before you go posting information about other people, please check with them prior to posting and check your facts first.
I even tried asking around to see if I could help him find buyers for his guns.

 

[UDDwaine]

I even tried asking around to see if I could help him find buyers for his guns.

Did you find anyone, or could you not find someone willing to pay you a finder's fee???

 

[bravodelta]

In my humble opinion, you guys are going about this all wrong. I have no beef with Jerry or Busse or BF. I am an avid Busse collector even though I don't post often and my collection numbers in the teens, not the hundreds, but I also collect from a handful of makers, not just one. I have received GREAT service from Busse and OUTSTANDING SERVICE from many member of this sub-forum. Usually, the feedback process would naturally ferret out and resolve problems like this in fairly short order. However, when the rules change or are modified, you artificially manipulate the process and the outcome. What does it mean there are over 250+ replies in this thread and still counting, is it piling on, or does it represent a real problem, or both?

If you guys want change, you are gonna have to vote with your feet and your wallet, not your mouth. I have personally avoided LK sales threads because I didn't like his prices, now it appears that he has poor business practices as well. If you want him to go away, STOP PURCHASING HIS STUFF!! LK would instantly turn from a dealer to a collector if he has no avenue to move his vast inventory. Since we are dealing with rare-ish and limited quantity blades, people will always "cross the picket line" to get something they have been trying to obtain for a long time. If he has something your want and you understand his business model, buy it and enjoy your Busse knife. However, Busse is a relatively small community and this subforum is the virtual heart. Keep up the pressure and it should eventually "box" LK out. It may take a month, it may take another year, but it will happen.

I can virtually promise if there was a moderate decrease in forum traffic TPTB would take quick action. As it stands now, all of this chatter is driving more attention and more traffic which is the lifeblood of an operation like this. I love BF as a community and I feel that it is moderated fairly well and has a wondeful community-like feel. However, you must remember that at the end of the day, this is a for-profit operation and these vendors generate the lions share of the revenue and traffic. However, don't forget, the average member is a patron as well, paying for your gold and platinum memberships.

I run a company that provides training for 5 Star / 5 Diamond hotels all over the world (actually all of them in the world). The average room at one of these properties goes for $2K-$4k and night with some of the rooms at $50k a night. When a 5 Star hotels loses a star due to a service issue(s) (and this does happen) it is an absolute death blow. My company helps them to get their 5th star back (we also help to prevent them from losing it in the first place)!!

I think our Busse subforum is in danger of losing a star, purely due to bad PR and perception problems (reality is far less important in the virtual world). The Busse products and service are as good as ever, but unfortunately, their non-traditional sales and marketing approach assists in the creation of situations like this by forcing the non-hogs or mini-hogs to seek their purchases on the secondary market. The rest you can pin on unabashed capitalism and natural greed and hoarding behaviors.

Just my .02...

Ben

 

[HuntBomb]

LK, I can't even interpret your BS jibberish anymore.
Looking forward to your next appology in another year or so...if you're still here.
You were given numerous opportunities to wipe the slate clean, but you chose to screw the entire knife community.
Your transgressions will be dumped in your lap at any shows you attend in the future and I wouldn't hesitate to spit in your face.

Solution for spamming, etc : Expell the (theiving) smelly kid.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Well Alex, it's nice of you to post speculation but did you actually talk to Anthony? I know I did and just called him up on the phone so he can address this issue. I was only able to leave a message. But if I remember correctly, didn't you buy a Fusion Steel Heart from him?
I don't see that he has left any positive feedback for you but I see he was happy with the transaction he did with me. You can look at my feedback on 07-21-2010 where his feedback for me on the transaction you are referring to was:
Great buyer, highly recommend, AAA++++++++++
And that wasn't the only transaction we have had, he also left me positive feedback 06-12-2010 which was:
Great buyer .....recommend.....A+
And on 12-03-2009:
Great man Dan. A++++++++ All the way .........

So it was not the first time we had a transaction. So before you go posting information about other people, please check with them prior to posting and check your facts first.
I even tried asking around to see if I could help him find buyers for his guns.

since you didn't actually read his entire post...

I have one name on my list...
An honorable man, who after losing his mates and taking an unexploded RPG shell to the ribcage in combat during an ambush, came home to find himself in dire financial straites...
A kindhearted HOG who was forced to put his entire knife collection up for sale in an attempt to save his home and pay his bills.
A proud man in such severe physical pain so bad that he was on heavy pain medication (read: morphine) while trying to deal with his losses and raise cash from his knives...



A good man whose desperate situation you took advantage of by severely lowballing him on Busse knives you knew you could flip for maximum profit all the while knowing that he needed as much money as he could get from them. You read that thread in the X, because you posted to it...



...before taking advantage of his bad situation. THIS is an example of that two-faced, predatory buying/selling BS that everybody is fed up with here, and what you did to Anthony still gets me pissed off every time I think about it.

Although this happened almost a year ago and I have kept this to myself, I cannot forget how Anthony expressed the way he felt...how he was insulted by your offer on the group of knives chosen, yet so desperate that he felt he had really no choice but to accept, all the while so under the effects of the morphine and the physical pain that he was nearly incoherent... I know all about it from Anthony personally in a very long phone conversation from that night. :grumpy: I have kept quiet long enough...too long, actually. Shame on you.

I have PM'd Claehill to ask him to contact Jerry with the details of your 'deal' barf with him, and I sincerely hope that he decides to.

Enough is enough...

no one cares about your feedback.

you have been caught lying twice (that i know of) and have not addressed either.

your attempts at misdirection and obfuscation are readily transparant.

 

[TEFL0N_D0N_81]

I stumbled on this thread after a few clicks here and there and searching for a rat daddy. I guess I'm a non-hog, but what an interesting read.

And while many emotions have some merit, this is so far a witch hunt. One person riding emotions off another. Possible spamming issues are probably all that's substantiated. As for actual bad transactions, skimming the threads make it seem like a few hundred, when in actuality only 1 or 2 has surfaced. There could certainly be a lot more, but a lot of people think they can see the whole forest from just a few trees.

+1 to bravodelta's comment, "If you guys want change, you are gonna have to vote with your feet and your wallet, not your mouth."

I've never dealt with LK, I've admired some Busse and Bussekin designs, and simply providing an objective viewpoint to this thread.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Excuse me...but I don't understand this, who is protecting LK? He seems to be untouchable...



Regards,

Still a Busse fan.

i don't think "protecting" accurately describes the situation.

i have little doubt lk has been discussed at great lengths by the mod staff, but it would seem spark will be making any final decision.

 

[roenman]

Oh, ok huang, now to protect your own ass, your going to call Alex a liar or dont know what he is talking about. Yea right, your feedback now, means absolutely nothing.
You, huang are a piece of work to say the least.
Cant you see on your own, your not wanted here.
You should go back under where ever you came from.
This just gets worse as time goes on. C'mon guys.......

 

[Planterz]

I stumbled on this thread after a few clicks here and there and searching for a rat daddy. I guess I'm a non-hog, but what an interesting read.

And while many emotions have some merit, this is so far a witch hunt. One person riding emotions off another. Possible spamming issues are probably all that's substantiated. As for actual bad transactions, skimming the threads make it seem like a few hundred, when in actuality only 1 or 2 has surfaced. There could certainly be a lot more, but a lot of people think they can see the whole forest from just a few trees.

[youtube]r0nTTrJED1o[/youtube]

There's much more to the story of LK than you can gather just from this one thread.

And I object to this being called a "which hunt". A witch hunt happens when people look for someone to blame for unexplainable happenings. Here we know who's responsible. I'd say it's more of a lynch mob. And yes, I'm one of those looking for a suitable tree (LK is providing the rope).

 

[Infi-del]

Well Alex, it's nice of you to post speculation but did you actually talk to Anthony? I know I did and just called him up on the phone so he can address this issue. I was only able to leave a message. But if I remember correctly, didn't you buy a Fusion Steel Heart from him?
I don't see that he has left any positive feedback for you but I see he was happy with the transaction he did with me. You can look at my feedback on 07-21-2010 where his feedback for me on the transaction you are referring to was:
Great buyer, highly recommend, AAA++++++++++
And that wasn't the only transaction we have had, he also left me positive feedback 06-12-2010 which was:
Great buyer .....recommend.....A+
And on 12-03-2009:
Great man Dan. A++++++++ All the way .........

So it was not the first time we had a transaction. So before you go posting information about other people, please check with them prior to posting and check your facts first.
I even tried asking around to see if I could help him find buyers for his guns.

Leave Bladeforums. You are not wanted here.

 

[steelnut]

I see he was happy with the transaction he did with me. You can look at my feedback on 07-21-2010 where his feedback for me on the transaction you are referring to was:
Great buyer, highly recommend, AAA++++++++++

The question is did you lowball a wounded Vet desperate for $$$?
I am sure JAXX did not haggle and lowball for any knife He bought to help

You on the other hand profited from his bad fortune?
Can't wait for the rest of this story...

 

[trestle]

As for actual bad transactions, skimming the threads make it seem like a few hundred, when in actuality only 1 or 2 has surfaced. There could certainly be a lot more, but a lot of people think they can see the whole forest from just a few trees.

I think most people are too embarrassed to admit openly or publicly that they were taken in by LK's obviously deceitful business tactics. Or they don't care to air dirty laundry for all to see and are taking care of their business through back channels.

If you stick around bladeforums for even a little while, you should quickly recognize the character and high integrity of the majority of members and how hard they work to keep this place special. You should also feel some revulsion at someone who so blatantly disregards any sense of community by willfully disregarding the agreed-upon rules.

Let me simplify it a bit; disregard the community, throw away all the rules, remove any sense of civilized organization and what are we left with? Our word and actions only. From what has been provided, Dan Huang has proven that neither of his count for much nor does it seem to matter to him.

 

[richstag]

I have a feral dog. When someone comes at him and makes him feel threatened he will instinctively go into the defensive. The only two options that he knows include running away with his tail tucked or snapping into a vicious frenzy and attacking anyone who comes near.

Alex is a good guy, and he will offer the shirt off his own back to someone in need, as long as he still has a shirt on his back to give.

The Busse forum is a favorite spot of mine on BF's. The only reason...the people. It has been sad to see it torn apart.

Now that's my dime shop psychobabble for the day.

I hope this one all works out. It is sad to see a company like Busse torn apart. They do a lot good and I will not believe they are anything but good people. Its worse to see the Busse community torn apart.

To anyone that really thinks the Busse marketing scheme is terrible, I offer a small bit of feedback. I have never sold a knife and don't plan to. The fact that Busse knives hold there value makes it a lot easier for me to put my money out on them. I would rather buy a great knife that I could get my money out of if I experienced hard times then a great knife that halves in value as soon as I click Pay Now.

That's speaking of collecting. For using I don't care if my knives are worth a dime. Let's face it though, you can only use so many knives.

I hope this one turns around in all aspects.

 

[BlackNinja]

I, unfortunately, found out the hard way that LK isn’t straight forward with his sales! :thumbdn:A couple years (give-or-take) ago I purchased a supposedly new, unused Smooth-bolt, satin, saber-ground SJTAC from him for $500. When it arrived, it had scratches (half-moon – near the ricasso), was visibly handled (handle discoloration) and it had clearly been re-sharpened. I didn’t put up a fuss (looking back:foot: I regret not doing so :foot because I don’t like the hassle. Because of this transaction, I didn’t buy from another person on the forums for a period of about a year or more.
Moreover, the first few pages on the Busse exchange are constantly swamped with his listings (which are ridiculously priced – but that’s his prerogative) which are basically the same knives on different pages under a different thread-title, so he gets WAY too much space on the first pages. I would much rather buy from a dealer who has normal prices and is straight forward (like dericdesmond, for example, readily comes to mind). I understand the search function, but I am a paying member and I don’t think I should have to go through pages of overpriced, say, SAR’s that LK has (which I will never buy) to find a normal priced one from somebody else who winds up on page ten. And I am obviously not the only one who feels this way. IMO, he should have his own website or a sub-forum here on BF (ain’t gonna happen)! I hope the moderators are considering a BAN! A lot of people have been taken advantage by him, especially Busse N00bs!
Sorry for the rant, but I don’t like getting screwed unless it’s by my wife!

 

[Jaxx]

Well Alex, it's nice of you to post speculation but did you actually talk to Anthony? I know I did and just called him up on the phone so he can address this issue. I was only able to leave a message. But if I remember correctly, didn't you buy a Fusion Steel Heart from him?
I don't see that he has left any positive feedback for you but I see he was happy with the transaction he did with me. You can look at my feedback on 07-21-2010 where his feedback for me on the transaction you are referring to was:
Great buyer, highly recommend, AAA++++++++++
And that wasn't the only transaction we have had, he also left me positive feedback 06-12-2010 which was:
Great buyer .....recommend.....A+
And on 12-03-2009:
Great man Dan. A++++++++ All the way .........

So it was not the first time we had a transaction. So before you go posting information about other people, please check with them prior to posting and check your facts first.
I even tried asking around to see if I could help him find buyers for his guns.

Yeah, Dan. I talked to him. On the phone. For hours... Go back and reread my post. I stand by what I said.
I most certainly would not risk my reputation here nor my moderator privileges over speculation. Maybe you should call him and see if he's happy with that deal. :grumpy:

And who cares if he left me no feedback? The man was in severe pain with a lot s*** going on...all of it bad. I KNOW he was happy with our deal, and that's all I need. iTrader Feedback means little to me as long as any deal I'm a part of was completely satisfactory to both parties.

ETA: By the way, Dan... I noticed that those 3 feedbacks left do not match the date on the deal I was referring to... They all pre-date it. Claehill put his entire collection up in October, 2010.

 

[Jaxx]

For the record, I can offer no tangible proof, just my word to what I heard when I talked to Claehill. Hopefully Anthony talks to Jerry, and I think Jerry will want to hear what he has to say.

The reason I finally lost my temper last night and posted what I knew was because it has been eating at me these last few weeks, especially with posts by Dan telling folks to show evidence, i.e. "prove it"... Like any person good at covering their tracks, I believe Dan's aware that none or very little exists and he's playing on that.

I know my post has a lot of you mad... Hell, I'M still mad...but Jerry doesn't deserve your anger. I know Jerry, and a lot of what I've read recently is speculation about him concerning Liu Kang. I don't believe it. Jerry is a great guy and has earned his reputation as such. Please refrain from lashing out at him for the actions of another. Stick to facts, please.

Thank you.

 

[Spark]

There's a lot of noise vs signal in this thread. I'm already not pleased with LK due to the keyword spamming, and other stunts he's pulled over the years. The self insurance thing, while scummy, isn't an automatic ban by itself. Neither is lowballing a member on a deal, despite the nature of the deal. Lying about the condition of a knife would be another negative but these instances seem to be past as well.

I need you guys to stop with the bandwagon antics here. I want specific instances where he's violated the rules, not commentary on things where he's shown poor character. Reposting violations by themselves would get his account yanked at this point.