Liu Kang (Dan Huang) - when is enough...well, enough?

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on_the_edge

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For the record, I can offer no tangible proof, just my word to what I heard when I talked to Claehill. Hopefully Anthony talks to Jerry, and I think Jerry will want to hear what he has to say.

The reason I finally lost my temper last night and posted what I knew was because it has been eating at me these last few weeks, especially with posts by Dan telling folks to show evidence, i.e. "prove it"... Like any person good at covering their tracks, I believe Dan's aware that none or very little exists and he's playing on that.

I know my post has a lot of you mad... Hell, I'M still mad...but Jerry doesn't deserve your anger. I know Jerry, and a lot of what I've read recently is speculation about him concerning Liu Kang. I don't believe it. Jerry is a great guy and has earned his reputation as such. Please refrain from lashing out at him for the actions of another. Stick to facts, please.

Thank you.

Alex,
I am sure many people here can understand your extreme frustration at keeping something like that inside, especially for so long. I know that I could never keep it under wraps that long. My point is that you are human, and as a human being, that something like that would "eat you up inside" is certainly foreseeable. The issue here is that we are dealing with someone who is narcissistic and probably somewhat of a sociopath. He does not feel empathy for anyone and so it's just another day for him. He is also a liar. Again, that is not normal, especially as among the folks who frequent BFC and the Busse sub-forum.

For the record, I will say that I certainly do not doubt one shred of your story. And I am sure I speak for many others here when I say that. Obviously Jerry and Kevin have a very significant amount of trust in you. I see absolutely no reason to let Dan Huang ruffle your feathers at all. HE is the LIAR, HE is the one who TAKES ADVANTAGE OF OTHERS, and HE is the one who SPAMS FS THEADS! Keep the faith, even if it is hard!
 

Mr. Clean

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Sounds like he hasn't violated anything, so he stays. If the rules are black and white and none are broken then what is one to do...

There's a lot of noise vs signal in this thread. I'm already not pleased with LK due to the keyword spamming, and other stunts he's pulled over the years. The self insurance thing, while scummy, isn't an automatic ban by itself. Neither is lowballing a member on a deal, despite the nature of the deal. Lying about the condition of a knife would be another negative but these instances seem to be past as well.

I need you guys to stop with the bandwagon antics here. I want specific instances where he's violated the rules, not commentary on things where he's shown poor character. Reposting violations by themselves would get his account yanked at this point.
 
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My only take on this is that it's quite obvious that nobody likes this guy on here, it seems like the owner of the site doesn't even care much for him so the only thing I can assume is that the money from his dealer membership is necessary to keep the site running.

I don't even donate here, but if that's the issue, I've got some extra cash in my paypal, I'll chip in 5 bucks if he gets banned from the site to help make up for his fees. I think if we all get 40 people together willing to contribute just 5 bucks for a liu kang free website then maybe we'll be able to get past the monetary setbacks. Because I see no other possible reason why this guy is being kept around.

Will you chip in to cover his membership fees?
 

Planterz

Rent free.
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Douchebaggery aside, LK doesn't belong on Bladeforums. He has been abusing the Exchange from the first day he set up shop here. First he lied about being a dealer. Shoulda been banned right then and there, in my opinion and in many others'. Many dealers/website owners/knifemakers/etc have been banned over the years for trying to hawk their wares without the proper subscription. Presumably LK wasn't banned right then and there and was allowed to stay because he finally agreed to pony up for the Dealer membership. But it still doesn't change the fact that he flat-out lied and took advantage of Bladeforums, Spark, and all the members who paid for the privilege to sell here.

The problem with LK is that he has outgrown BFC (perhaps he never fit in the first place), and BFC has become his personal storefront. LK is in a different league than any of the Dealers here on BFC. The actual dealers have their own websites--and an actual physical store where you can walk in and browse. When you look at their posts in the Dealer's section, they're almost all basically notifications of new arrivals of anticipated knives, or notifications of restock. They're not a list of every motherloving knife they have in inventory.

Then there's the few dealers who meet the BFC definition of "dealer" because they're flippers. Most deal almost exclusively in Bussekin. They're not dealers for Busse (as previously explained), but since they buy and resell at profit, they fit BFC's definition. It's because of this fuzzy definition that Dealers are allowed to sell Bussekin in the Individual section of the Bussekin forum (but not allowed to sell non-Bussekin outside the Dealer forum).

The problem with this, and LK, is that the Exchange was never meant for someone who sells as many knives through BFC as LK does. We were forced to enact and follow new rules/regulations just to try and keep things on an even keel, and LK abused those, and then more rules were made (keyword spamming, for example). Even then, LK doesn't fit at BFC. The problem is knowing where to draw the line on how much stuff a dealer should be allowed to have listed for sale at any given time. And the vague general consensus seems to be that "too much" is however much LK has listed at any given time. And if a new rule limiting number of sale listings, however many that may be, it's yet one more rule to try to fit in a Dealer who never fit here in the first place. He needs to set up his own website and stop abusing BFC and Spark's good graces.

And speaking of keyword spamming, how does this look to the mods?

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...enchmade-Gold-Series-BM940-Extrema-Ratio-ESEE

LK's Dealer thread made 2 days ago advertising Benchmade Gold Series and BM940, neither of which he actually has listed in that thread.

3.1.5. DO NOT SPAM KEYWORDS. Items listed in the ad must actually be for sale in that ad and that ad ONLY. This isn't ebay or craigslist - If you spam keywords trying to increase the visibility of your ad(s), your ad will be deleted and your account will be locked.
 
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on_the_edge

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If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... :)

I'm going to go WAY OUT ;) on a limb here and say that is keyword spamming! Do I win?
 

Infi-del

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Craziness, you can get banned here for having a meltdown and cursing out the mods... yet years of lies, dirty business practices, taking advantage of veterans, abuse of the rules, and being a cancer on the community in general is ok as long as you're polite about it. I love this place... but I hate that it tolerates the likes of Liu Kang.
 

Planterz

Rent free.
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Instead of posting it here, take the time to report it so it can be looked into.

I did.

And actually it looks like it was a relisting from a month or so before, which did have a BM Gold Class knife still for sale. However, you have to go back to January to find the BM940 listed (where, interestingly, it's listed as "Sold" without an edit or prior listing). Granted, this was prior to the Keyword Spamming rule was added in May, but there have been 3 relistings since then.

Oversight? Honest mistake? Perhaps. Deliberate? At this point I wouldn't be surprised either way.
 

Liu Kang

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Let me start by saying that I am sorry for handling some things the way that I have handled them. We all make mistakes. And yes I've made some. There are things I could have handled better, but most of that was in the past and I believe that I have learned from my mistakes. I have come to understand the sense of community here at Bladeforums and know that a lot of people are worked up because they feel that I've treated their friends poorly. It was never my intention to do so.

I have made a lot of friends along the way but seem to have also made some enemies. To those who feel that I should have handled things differently, please contact me and I will do my best to make it right with you.

If I have any existing transactions going on with anyone here, I will of course honor them and anyone can still feel free to email for anything.

I am leaving Bladeforums. I will not be posting on any of the forums. I hope to be welcomed back someday.


Sincerely,

Dan Huang
 
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Let me start by saying that I am sorry for handling some things the way that I have handled them. We all make mistakes. And yes I've made some. There are things I could have handled better, but most of that was in the past and I believe that I have learned from my mistakes. I have come to understand the sense of community here at Bladeforums and know that a lot of people are worked up because they feel that I've treated their friends poorly. It was never my intention to do so.

I have made a lot of friends along the way but seem to have also made some enemies. To those who feel that I should have handled things differently, please contact me and I will do my best to make it right with you.

If I have any existing transactions going on with anyone here, I will of course honor them and anyone can still feel free to email for anything.

I am leaving Bladeforums. I will not be posting on any of the forums. I hope to be welcomed back someday.


Sincerely,

Dan Huang

Wish I could say I'm sad to see you go.
 

Kiah

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Good riddance.
 
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I'm a bit lost here as well. . . . :confused:

LK is not a sanctioned Busse dealer. He is a customer. Period. He pays the same for his knives as everyone else does. If he buys at the Blade Show, or any other show, he gets the same deal or show special discount as everyone else gets at that show.

However, if he is harming our reputation by association, and this harm is based on factual information, not an ocean of speculation and piling on, we will put an end to it.

My several years of grad school taught me two things. . . First and foremost, “Drink a lot”. . . Second, make sure your facts are solid and not based on hearsay or unsubstantiated opinions.

So, if you have been personally wronged by LK on a Busse Knife Group deal, or you know of someone who claims this, please contact them to send me an email at [email protected]

I do not want hearsay, speculation, links to threads that are endless, personal feelings, or any unfounded accusations. . . . just facts.

I do not know enough about the secondary market resale rules and regulations on BF to comment on that aspect. That info should be sent to Spark.

I only want to hear from those who have been personally involved in a Busse Knife Group deal gone wrong and have actual proof of wrong doing.

With all of the accusations flying around, I have yet to be contacted by anyone.

Present us with facts that prove intentional wrong doing. . . and we will drop the hammer on LK.

Thanks, :thumbup:

Jerry
:D.

Some facts, I purchased an un-used .22" Game Warden for $215 from a member here a couple of years ago. Upon receiving the knife I realized it wasn't what I was looking for. A year or so later I needed to fund another project so I listed it for sale here, on The Busse Exchange. I listed it in this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/764601-Game-Wardens... for what I felt was a fair price at the time. Liu Kang posted in my thread that he would take it. After posting his "I'll Take it" he started the behind the scenes low balling, asking me if I would lower the price by allowing him to send the money via Paypal as a gift. He then asked me to remove my prices from my ad, both requests were ignored and he sent the money anyways. The knife was received, I was mildly annoyed but positive feedback was exchanged because he followed through on his end. What really disturbed me was seeing my knife listed for $315 shortly there after, plus 5% :)rolleyes:) for Paypal and whatever shipping and handling fees he charges his buyers. I dug up the old ad but of course the prices have been removed.

So the long and the short of it is he lowballed me on a knife knowing full well he was going to turn around and immediately mark it up to make a 50%+ profit. No bueno.
 

wolfmann601

Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
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7,385
Close this dowwn, lock it up.......If Dan is a man of his word we will not hear from him again
 

TUF

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Dec 2, 2007
Messages
449
Let me start by saying that I am sorry for handling some things the way that I have handled them. We all make mistakes. And yes I've made some. There are things I could have handled better, but most of that was in the past and I believe that I have learned from my mistakes. I have come to understand the sense of community here at Bladeforums and know that a lot of people are worked up because they feel that I've treated their friends poorly. It was never my intention to do so.

I have made a lot of friends along the way but seem to have also made some enemies. To those who feel that I should have handled things differently, please contact me and I will do my best to make it right with you.

If I have any existing transactions going on with anyone here, I will of course honor them and anyone can still feel free to email for anything.

I am leaving Bladeforums. I will not be posting on any of the forums. I hope to be welcomed back someday.


Sincerely,

Dan Huang

How do you make it right when a price is agreed upon and then you decide that you actually need $300 more than the advertised price?

Seriously what would make that right?
 
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Also, who wrote that letter for you? Your handler? It did not exactly sound like you...
 
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