Lock Strength - Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Cold Steel Hold Out II

Please test Al Mar Sere2000 vs Counter Point, and some of the Emerson knives.I continue to like other companies like Spyderco and Benchmade, but when I really use and abuse knife ,always turn to CS.:).Even old knives without triad lock are very tough,thats what I mostly use and never had a failure,lock or blade.
 
Like Cold Steel or hate them, their marketing, even the CRTK lawsuit, but Cold Steel always walks the walk and the Proof series and the lock strength comparisons prove this.
 
Great video. as i've predicted in another thread, compression lock is not really as strong as people thought...

Biased or not, it's hard to argue against the comparisons. CS Hold Out(2015 version) is lighter, has longer blade, uses similar high end XHP steel, is slightly cheaper(10-20 bucks). The only thing people can hit on is that it's harder to open/close and its place of origin.

hkyew said:
Hmm i guess we can only find out when they test it. My opinion is that it will not hold as well as Triad lock based on the follow reasons.

Compression lock has 2 potential failure modes(only consider the lock failure, not blade breakage or other non-lock related failure like what happened to Tatanka):

1. Liner slippage
- The area of the tang contacting the lock bar is a slope, not a flat straight line, this is to allow for self adjustment as the lock wears. Similar to liner/frame lock. However, it's sloped outward, i.e. has less resistance for the lock liner to travel outward than inward(even though the spring tension slightly negates that). Because of this, there is a chance that under impact/load the lock bar can slip out of the position. Also, because the liner is made of steel, it doesn't stick as well to the blade tang.

- In contrast, triad lock bar and blade tang is cut at an opposite angle, i.e. higher chance for the lock to "slip in" than to "slip out" under heavy impact, so the lock bar has a tendency to move in during impact as there are less resistance that way. This pretty much eliminates the chance of lock slipping out during impact. Remember, nature always follows the path of the least resistance. Just like how the water droplet is round.

2. Material failure
- Another way for the compression lock to fail is when the liner deformed/damaged to the point that it can no longer support the blade tang, either by breaking(unlikely due to soft-ish steel) or deforming(plastic probably). Alternatively, the stop-pin could fail or shear out of the steel liner & G-10, even though it's unlikely to happen IMO. In this case i think the weakest link is the single part of the ~1-1.5mm thick liner "sandwiched" between the blade tang and the stop-pin, and i believe the width of the liner sandwiched is about or less than 6mm IIRC. So you have a 6mm high/wide and 1-1.5mm thick material holding the blade open.

- On the other hand, triad has the same failure mode to, where the lock bar has to either break, or the stop pin has to break out of the G-10 handle. In terms of material, let's assume that the width and height of the lockbar contacting the blade tang and the stop-pin is the same as compression above, you have a lockbar *thickness* of ~0.5mm more than the blade thickness. Take American Lawman as example, that is 4mm, so that about ~2.5 - 4 times the material to break(assuming material is the same). Another interesting point is that for Triad lock, in order for the lockbar to break, the stop pin has to break out of the G-10. However in order for the stop pin to get shear off the G-10, the lockbar has to be deformed enough(i.e. break). So the lock bar and the handle holding the stop pin essentially have to fail together in order for the lock to break! This is because the lock bar itself, even without the stop pin is a full functional lockback on adrenalin.

Or course during real life scenario, there are many other variables that can cause failure. But based on the above analysis(with totally no scientific data :rolleyes:) my opinion that Triad lock is less prone to failure.
Click to expand...
 
Walking the walk...

I was also surprised at how many people expressed the opinion that the compression lock would be either stronger than a normal liner lock or turn out to be comparable in strength. I do not think steel-to-steel contact between tang and lock face in a liner or frame lock type lock is as secure in any case, unless the lockup is sufficiently late.

That said in this particular case I'd still take the PM2. For my light to moderate day to day tasks, I prefer the PM2s grind. The ergonomics on that knife are nearly unmatched both in Spyderco's own offerings and the offerings of many other companies. The PM2 is also not marketed or built as a hard-use knife, and is not excessively heavy or costly for the strength or qualities it offers, as were/are certain other knives CS has tested.

Emerson or Microtech next? I'm thinking CQC8, or Socom Delta.
 
Last edited:
asdf12345 said:
Emerson or Microtech next? I'm thinking CQC8, or Socom Delta.
Click to expand...

I'd actually like to see them test the adamas. I know they've already tested the axis lock but the adamas is benchmade's undisputed strongest folder. I still see folks claiming the adamas could take on any CS knife. Also really interested in how the hogue ex-01 would handle the testing.
 
Ok, so the triad is a stronger lock. So what? The lock is not the only reason why people buy knives. Design, ease of manipulation, steel used, warranty, country of origin all play a mayor factor in selecting knives.
I aplaud Mr Demko for designing such a strong lock, but it has little influence in my decision making proces. I look at the whole package. I have several Cold Steel knives and "gadgets"and i like them, but that doesn't mean i select my knives solely on lock strenght.
 
Interesting test. It seems Cold Steel has them beat again when it comes to what's most important to them. When it comes to what's most important to consumers, the PM2 is the winner by far and I imagine outsells by the Hold Out by a huge margin.
 
AF said:
When it comes to what's most important to consumers
Click to expand...

AF, agreed with everything you said except this. Even though 90%+ of consumers will never use a knife for hard use, that doesn't mean it can't be an important buying criteria when consumers are aware of a difference. Most pickup truck owners live in the suburbs and would never haul anything that would put their truck to the test and yet hauling capacity is what gets the emphasis. Or, why do we need Dewalt 'Get Tough' tools in our garages.. when for many they do nothing but gather dust?

This is excellent marketing and would bet we will see more of this in the future from Cold Steel and anyone who can make toughness claims - and you'll see most, even Spyderco moving more of their product line up into stronger locking mechanisms or risk losing market share.
 
Let's see how many companies Cold Steel can have a pissing match with at the same time.
 
That was pretty entertaining. I just ordered a Hold Out 3 yesterday so it was nice to see it's big brother compete.
 
I could have told you what would happen without watching the video. I'd bet money that triad lock would last longer than BM 275 or Hogue. I am a Huge fan of the BM 275, just being honest as to lock strength. Lots of people could care less about lock strength. Lots of people prefer ease of opening and closing which honestly takes a bit more effort with the Triad lock than Paras compression. I like a good strong lock as find myself reaming on my knives sometimes and or just plain being careless. I LOVE the Hold Out II. I'd take it over a Para anyday. Even a Aus 8 Hold Out. Prefer the scales shape better, blade shape(don't care for Para's upswept blade),grind, scale texture, lock, blade strength is better than the Para also. I like Spyderco alot also. But I'd take a Hold Out over most other Spyderco offerings. Are Para's great light EDC's? Yeah and they look amazing and feel molded to the users hand. If I'm trying to impress somebody/myself with looks and feel I'd get a Spyderco, if I want a knife to beat the hell out of and durablity, overall plan on using it for anything I can threw at it I'm getting a Cold Steel with Tri-ad lock. I have 5 HO II and one HO 1. I LOVE this design. One of my favorites for sure. So slicey and still so durable, light, stabby,cheap,feels great in hand. What's not to like. Will end up with a XHP model at some point.
 
Awesome test keep them up

I was think the spyderco would have done better

Please test the buck marksman it absolutely the strongest lock I've ever used

Thanks

ZTD
 
surprising and kinda disappointing at the same time. it is what it is though.....

i own a few of both and i love the hold out and the para2....regardless of lock strength. both are great for different tasks.
 
Hold Out 2 Cts-xhp is definitely better all around knife for real use.I have both Para 2 and Hold Out in aus8 and its superb knife.Would really like to see Hogue button lock tested against some of CS knives.These other companies that advertise their knives as Hard Use should have stronger locks.Some knives just fail too easily despite advertised for MBC and Heavy duty use.
 
Who cares. I use my knives as designed so I doubt I am going to ever have an issue with any of them.
 
Ulf Krogstad said:
Lots of people could care less about lock strength.
Click to expand...
True that. I'm not a hard user of my folding knives, so I definitely fit into that group. As long as a lock is sufficiently strong to keep me from doing something stupid with my folder and hurting myself as a result, I'm satisfied. But getting all worked up over the lock in my folder makes about as much sense to me as getting all worked up over the seatbelts in my car. Call me silly, but I don't buy folders for their locks any more than I buy cars for their seatbelts. I buy folders to cut stuff and I buy cars to go places. Features like locks and seatbelts that allow me to do those things safely are important, of course. But they're not what I think about most when I make my purchase decisions. YMMV
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top