Lock Strength - Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Cold Steel Hold Out II

[jbmonkey]

And cold steel move on and come up with something that much better than it use to.

Anybody still carry this

It was the best long time ago

Some guy in jersey was recently and got arrested.

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

And how do these two knives compare when used as knives for...you know...cutting things?

I'll wait for your answer, Cold Steel.

While I do like having a decent lock on my knives. the lock is not the reason I like that knife.

Well, They are both FFG knives so think they compare quite a bit. I think the Hold Out is thinner behind the edge so prehaps is would beat the Para in being slicey. Also Has more stabby factor.

Exactly. I'd own the Hold Out even if it didn't have the Triad lock. I'ts that good of a design. Are these lock tests ret$%^ed and more or less a waste a time and money putting them VS VS VS every company and model they can think of. Yes. I like cold steel but the more they put themselves out their seems like the more negative FB they get from people and even their own customers.

All this ever turns into is a pissing contest of peoples PREFERENCE to either knife and is just really a waste of time. Their both great knives. Try them both!

 

[Insipid Moniker]

True that. I'm not a hard user of my folding knives, so I definitely fit into that group. As long as a lock is sufficiently strong to keep me from doing something stupid with my folder and hurting myself as a result, I'm satisfied. But getting all worked up over the lock in my folder makes about as much sense to me as getting all worked up over the seatbelts in my car. Call me silly, but I don't buy folders for their locks any more than I buy cars for their seatbelts. I buy folders to cut stuff and I buy cars to go places. Features like locks and seatbelts that allow me to do those things safely are important, of course. But they're not what I think about most when I make my purchase decisions. YMMV

Heck, I do use my knives fairly hard and I'm still with you one this. Lock strength is somewhat important to me, but ease of opening/closing the knife is just as important and both fall significantly behind ergonomics and cutting ability in my selection preference.

In short, I might actually pick a Cold Steel over a Spyderco in many situations, but the Triad lock wouldn't be the main reason, it would just be a pleasant bonus.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

And how do these two knives compare when used as knives for...you know...cutting things?

I'll wait for your answer, Cold Steel.

Might be a bad contest if your goal is to show up Cold Steel on this one. Same stock thickness, same grind, but the Hold Out 2 has a broader blade which means a higher grind and a slightly better angle for slicing. Real world it would come down to which was thinner behind the edge and, realistically, that would probably go back and forth between the two based on the individual sample.

That's part of what cracks me up about Cold Steels marketing. Ignore that for a second and look at the knives they're actually making. They use thinner stock than many, many companies (Spyderco Military has 4mm blade stock, Recon 1? 3.5mm), the grinds and edges are generally much better suited to slicing than abuse and they've removed steel liners from almost every model they make.

Cold Steel licensed a tremendously strong locking mechanism so they market the hell out of it, but they clearly don't believe that strength is the most important aspect of a folding knife or their designs would be very different. I like Cold Steel because they make a broad range of simple, working knives that cut well are lightweight and are very reliable.

 

[Ankerson]

Might be a bad contest if your goal is to show up Cold Steel on this one. Same stock thickness, same grind, but the Hold Out 2 has a broader blade which means a higher grind and a slightly better angle for slicing. Real world it would come down to which was thinner behind the edge and, realistically, that would probably go back and forth between the two based on the individual sample.

That's part of what cracks me up about Cold Steels marketing. Ignore that for a second and look at the knives they're actually making. They use thinner stock than many, many companies (Spyderco Military has 4mm blade stock, Recon 1? 3.5mm), the grinds and edges are generally much better suited to slicing than abuse and they've removed steel liners from almost every model they make.

Cold Steel licensed a tremendously strong locking mechanism so they market the hell out of it, but they clearly don't believe that strength is the most aspect of a folding knife or their designs would be very different. I like Cold Steel because they make a broad range of simple, working knives that cut well are lightweight and are very reliable.

I was staying out of these threads, but you made some good points here.

Having owned and tested a lot of CS knives over the years they do focus on cutting performance as their blade grinds do lean towards slicing ability in general.

A lot of them are actually thinner behind the edge than average for comparable knives.

They do take cutting performance seriously because they actually want people to use their knives to cut stuff.

 

[bld522]

That test was surprising. I figured the Triad Lock would be stronger, but what I did not expect is the compression lock to be one of the weakest locks tested. Go figure.

I appreciate these tests. My fingers are precious. No amount of rhetoric will change that.

So is my brain when I use it properly and don't do things that cause the locks in my folders to fail. And just for the record, I'm pretty good at knowing when I'm doing things with my folders that I probably shouldn't be doing. YMMV

Lock strength is somewhat important to me, but ease of opening/closing the knife is just as important and both fall significantly behind ergonomics and cutting ability in my selection preference.

It's nice to know I'm not alone. If we ran a poll, I suspect the results would confirm that the order of your selection preferences is shared by most knife purchasers. It's just that some folks can't see the forest for the trees. Lock strength is nice, but it doesn't make or break a purchase decision for me. So while I don't yet own a Paramilitary 2, nothing in this test would persuade me not to buy one or to purchase a Cold Steel product instead.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Historically, how does it work at BF when one maker starts running threads presenting negative comparisons of the products of another maker who is a member here? I know it does not happen all that much.

 

[bld522]

I'm sure one maker could couch their comparisons as being completely objective and not meant to disparage the other maker's product. But then if one maker is drawing comparisons between, say, the strength of their seatbelts versus the strength of somebody else's seatbelts, how much weight should you give the outcome in deciding which car you're going to buy? (Sorry to keep drawing on the same metaphor, but if the shoe fits . . . )

Don't lose sight of the forest, my friend.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Tests? How about resistance of handles to impact, resistance of blade steel to corrosion, resistance of blade edge to abrasion, relative strength and toughness of blade?

Or we can pick testing of one aspect.

 

[bld522]

Or we can pick testing of one aspect.

Seems to me that's exactly what Cold Steel is doing here. And as you suggested, the aspect they're testing probably isn't the most important one to most knife buyers. But it sure seems as if Cold Steel would like you to believe it is.

FOREST . . . trees . . . FOREST . . . trees . . .

 

[lonestar1979]

I love Cold Steel grinds,they slice well and are thin behind edge,thinner than most Spydercos.My Para2 came with ffg but very thick behind the edge, I had to regrind it on belt sander .

 

[bld522]

Yep. Then again, grinds can be modified to suit your needs. And they're not nearly as sexy to talk about as lock strength . . .

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Yep. Then again, grinds can be modified to suit your needs. And they're not nearly as sexy to talk about as lock strength . . .

And the testing isn't nearly as dramatic. "As you can see, our knife cut through this sheet of cardboard using only 2.2lbs of force while the competition took 2.6lbs. A clear victory." More important, but a lot less compelling.

 

[bld522]

Precisely! :thumbup: Some folks may be persuaded by the attempt of a manufacturer to highlight some feature of its products that really isn't all that important. But sooner or later they'll come to their senses and start comparing features that matter most to them.

I could be mistaken, but I don't believe the Paramilitary 2's popularity was predicated primarily on its lock strength. So I suspect this test won't have any discernible effect on Paramilitary 2 sales moving forward. But I'll give Cold Steel an "E" for effort!

 

[mc556]

Arguments aside I believe that what most are trying to say is that the Para2 lock is plenty strong.
It is probably the best selling knife at the $100-125 mark. How many people are getting hurt because of lock failure?
I have nothing against cold steel and I understand they want to settle the argument on who's lock is stronger.
It's just like watching a kid claim his dad can beat up your dad... No real world relevance

 

[bld522]

No real world relevance.

Certainly none that I can discern. I'd say Cold Steel would gain about as much traction as they have here if they tested the lock strength of a Tri-Ad folder against a Buck 110. Cold Steel would win, of course. But who would care?

 

[Dr Heelhook]

Impressive.

Gotta love an open back construction though. So easy to clean...

 

[jbmonkey]

Arguments aside I believe that what most are trying to say is that the Para2 lock is plenty strong.
It is probably the best selling knife at the $100-125 mark. How many people are getting hurt because of lock failure?
I have nothing against cold steel and I understand they want to settle the argument on who's lock is stronger.
It's just like watching a kid claim his dad can beat up your dad... No real world relevance

in fairness though many here, myself included, have been asking for a compression lock test. just to see what it could do in that form of testing. i have more than a handful of para1 and para2's. not getting rid of any of them, but i did enjoy seeing how they fared in the demko series of trials on lock strength.

 

[bld522]

I hear you. I can't wait for the Demko lock strength test vs the Kershaw Leek.

 

[jbmonkey]

Certainly none that I can discern. I'd say Cold Steel would gain about as much traction as they have here if they tested the lock strength of a Tri-Ad folder against a Buck 110. Cold Steel would win, of course. But who would care?

bladehq did a test on a buck 110 and tri-ad and a gerber gator, against liner locks and frame locks. the buck did far better than i would have guessed. over 300+ lbs and they stopped adding weight before it failed.. while it wasn't a battle between a triad and buck 110, they both got tested. triad had no issues as everyone would expect, but the buck held up rather well. even the gerber held up rather well until the weight broke the plastic handle, but not the lock.

point being that over 300+ lbs is more than enough...so who would even care other than someone who was going to hang from their folding knife that weighed over 300 + lbs.