Lock Strength - Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Cold Steel Hold Out II

bld522 said:
True that. I'm not a hard user of my folding knives, so I definitely fit into that group. As long as a lock is sufficiently strong to keep me from doing something stupid with my folder and hurting myself as a result, I'm satisfied. But getting all worked up over the lock in my folder makes about as much sense to me as getting all worked up over the seatbelts in my car. Call me silly, but I don't buy folders for their locks any more than I buy cars for their seatbelts. I buy folders to cut stuff and I buy cars to go places. Features like locks and seatbelts that allow me to do those things safely are important, of course. But they're not what I think about most when I make my purchase decisions. YMMV
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*******1 Totally agree.
 
bld522 said:
True that. I'm not a hard user of my folding knives, so I definitely fit into that group. As long as a lock is sufficiently strong to keep me from doing something stupid with my folder and hurting myself as a result, I'm satisfied. But getting all worked up over the lock in my folder makes about as much sense to me as getting all worked up over the seatbelts in my car. Call me silly, but I don't buy folders for their locks any more than I buy cars for their seatbelts. I buy folders to cut stuff and I buy cars to go places. Features like locks and seatbelts that allow me to do those things safely are important, of course. But they're not what I think about most when I make my purchase decisions. YMMV
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Perfectly said.
 
Some people buy expensive headphone so that they can wear on their neck instead of using it.... I don't think that wrong, but there are much better choices
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One of the reasons that para 2 exist is because endura 4 is made in Japan
 
That test was surprising. I figured the Triad Lock would be stronger, but what I did not expect is the compression lock to be one of the weakest locks tested. Go figure.

I appreciate these tests. My fingers are precious. No amount of rhetoric will change that.
 
DocT said:
That test was surprising. I figured the Triad Lock would be stronger, but what I did not expect is the compression lock to be one of the weakest locks tested. Go figure.

I appreciate these tests. My fingers are precious. No amount of rhetoric will change that.
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Know why people who use slipjoints aren't all missing fingers? Because they use a knife how it's supposed to be used...
 
nick21 said:
Know why people who use slipjoints aren't all missing fingers? Because they use a knife how it's supposed to be used...
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Yep, folders without TriAd = slipjoints.

To most owners of the paramilitary 2 the reliability of the lock will not be an issue - they just use their paramilitary 2 for their pictures and videos that they going to post it here or YouTube... That's how it's supposed to be used I guess.
 
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nicktheman said:
To most owners of the paramilitary 2 the reliability of the lock will not be an issue - they just use their paramilitary 2 for their pictures and videos that they going to post it here or YouTube... That's how it's supposed to be used I guess.
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Just like most people with their Cold Steels. ;)
Or Benchmades, Chris Reeves, Medfords...heck, most budget Shrades don't see much use.


And non-Tri-Ad equals slip-joint?
Come on.

Here's Lynn:

"Back in the 1980's, I released a range of folders that I named the Shinobu series. With high-performance Japanese San Mai III steel blades, deeply checkered space-age polymer handles, and a pioneering lock-back design that could hold an unprecedented 90lb of weight, the large Shinobu was (in my opinion) one of, if not the first real modern tactical folding knives. "

http://www.coldsteel.com/Riposte-Putting-It-To-The-Test.aspx

So, some of the knives you are disparaging are as "super-duper tough and hard-core" as the Cold Steels of the past...and many are far stronger than those vintage Cold Steel offerings.
 
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nicktheman said:
Yep, folders without TriAd = slipjoints.

To most owners of the paramilitary 2 the reliability of the lock will not be an issue - they just use their paramilitary 2 for their pictures and videos that they going to post it here or YouTube... That's how it's supposed to be used I guess.
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While I own Spyderco knives, I don't own a Paramilitary 2.

I use my knives, amazingly enough, to cut things. As to which, the super spine-wack test is of little interest.

I have never had a Spyderco folder, or one of my Cold Steel folders for that matter, close on me. Perhaps if I was engaged in feats of daring do, deanimating this and that . . . .

(I did have a S&W folder close on me, but it was my fault for buying junk.)
 
stabman said:
Just like most people with their Cold Steels. ;)
Or Benchmades, Chris Reeves, Medfords...heck, most budget Shrades don't see much use.


And non-Tri-Ad equals slip-joint?
Come on.

Here's Lynn:

"Back in the 1980's, I released a range of folders that I named the Shinobu series. With high-performance Japanese San Mai III steel blades, deeply checkered space-age polymer handles, and a pioneering lock-back design that could hold an unprecedented 90lb of weight, the large Shinobu was (in my opinion) one of, if not the first real modern tactical folding knives. "

http://www.coldsteel.com/Riposte-Putting-It-To-The-Test.aspx

So, some of the knives you are disparaging are as "super-duper tough and hard-core" as the Cold Steels of the past...and many are far stronger than those vintage Cold Steel offerings.
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And cold steel move on and come up with something that much better than it use to.

Anybody still carry this
Pistolet_officier_Fillon_IMG_3201.jpg


It was the best long time ago
 
And how do these two knives compare when used as knives for...you know...cutting things?

I'll wait for your answer, Cold Steel.
 
nicktheman said:
And cold steel move on and come up with something that much better than it use to.
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The lock is stronger on the newer Cold Steels (and arguably better by one measure)...the rest of the knife? Not so much.

You should really try out some of the older, "inferior" (according to you) Cold Steel offerings.

The lock is one part of the knife, much like strength is only one part of being able to fight.

Don't miss the forest by zeroing in on one tree.
 
Eh... My holdout 3 has became my most carried pocketknife.

While I do like having a decent lock on my knives. the lock is not the reason I like that knife.
 
I'd be more interested to see the same test with the blades turned to the edge side.
That would make it maybe 1/2 stupid vs the full amount since at least that would stress the proper side.
The spine whack test is pretty much useless in the real world I just don't see the relavance.
Hell test them laterally
 
stabman said:
The lock is stronger on the newer Cold Steels (and arguably better by one measure)...the rest of the knife? Not so much.

You should really try out some of the older, "inferior" (according to you) Cold Steel offerings.

The lock is one part of the knife, much like strength is only one part of being able to fight.

Don't miss the forest by zeroing in on one tree.
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What's the rest of the knife... The attention that comes with when you posted here.

If lock strength, durability and reliability is not important all folding knives will still be slipjoints.

One of the best way to improve your skill is to consistently work on your weaknesses - not by ignoring it.

Some companies will try to tell you that you hard use their folders wrong and you should learn how to hard use it properly. Some even tried to tell you folders not supposed to be tough and there is not reason to make folders stronger.

Like you said, coldsteel still have a lot of room to improve
But as far as the locking mechanism of folders go, other need to catch up.
 
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nicktheman said:
What's the rest of the knife... The attention that comes with when you posted here.

The triad lock and new steel are evidence that coldsteel is not one of those and this is the reason I choose to use my voyager instead of my endura.
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What are you even trying to say in the bolded part? :confused:

I choose my Endura or Voyager depending on what size of knife I need.
The Endura fits in my pocket nice, and works for everything a knife with about a 4 inch blade will do.
The XL Voyager is bigger...so I chose it when I want a bigger folder (or I just grab the Tatanka, which I like even more. :)).

As for lock strength...
I got the large Shinobu when I was a teenager, so I used it for really stupid crap.
I pried with it, I used it as a throwing knife, I stabbed it through a few desks.
I let my friends use it, and much stabbing and prying of wood was done...because we were stupid teenagers.

I even tied it to a stick and used it as a spear (yes, I really did go to that level of stupid with it).

It never failed...and oddly enough, even the cheaper folders my friends had didn't fail, even though according to Lynn's testing, they would have been weaker (I'm sure they actually were).

90 pounds of lock strength will keep your fingers safe from real world, real stupid use. :thumbup:
 
I think some forget the point of these tests; they're conspicuously not tests of how well the knife cuts. Emphasis is on price, weight, and dumb strength. Not to say which knife is "better". These tests are likely not going to influence the opinions of knife users who have the disposable income for higher end blades and who have no need for a super strong lock. And they are probably not intended to.

With that in mind, I want to see more thorough over strike testing and edge side strikes as that's the kind of impact even hard users will experience more often than spine side strikes.
 
I'm confused with all the arguments. let's ignore the lock strength for now and enlighten me the following:

does the holdout use worse steel?
does it really have worse blade grind and *cutting* ability?
does it have worse daily usability vs the knife being compared to?
is the holdout less ergonomic in every grip? is it much more uncomfortable to handle when cutting stuff?
is the holdout harder to carry, heavier and chunkier?
does it provide less value in terms of usability & material for the price?

I'm all for objective arguments, but having pissing contests over personal preferences/opinions bring us nowhere.
23 more pages in this thread and we still gonna see identical arguments about why the F* should we care/not care about lock strength...
Certain data about lock strength has been established here. it doesn't matter if it's important or not, it's just data, take it if u care, leave it if you don't. The best knife is the one you have with you at this moment.

That "forest and one tree" thing as somebody mentioned...
 
Suprising.

Please test the 830 Buck Marksman. It is really strong from my experience, when it fails I will probably buy from cold steel.

Thank you all.
 
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