Lock Strength Test Request - Extrema Ratio RAO vs the Cold Steel 4-MAX

stabman · Jul 16, 2015

Poleaxe said:
Kind of rubs me the wrong way that people, knowing that CS has the strongest lock on the market, are now trying to pin it against quasi-folders with 1/4" thick blade stock with locking pins.It just seems really reaching for something to defeat the Tri-ad lock with unfair rules.It's also no surprise that the ones most vocal in this thread for this match up to happen are the same snarky, thread derailers that have been active in other threads.Posters that should have already been banned from the subforum or at least given warnings IMO.

Perhaps you missed what this guy said:

DemkoKnives said:
I'm not sure the triad anything can beat a knife that is a "real fixed blade" as is the RAO. That would be a fun test win or loose, it would be interesting. I think it is on the list so time will tell.

It's already on the list, and the guy who designed the Tri-Ad lock thinks it will be fun.

bld522 · Jul 16, 2015

And he's not the only one. :thumbup:

Bring it, Andrew!

Poleaxe · Jul 16, 2015

stabman said:
Perhaps you missed what this guy said:

It's already on the list, and the guy who designed the Tri-Ad lock thinks it will be fun.

That's all well and good and I did miss the demko quote. Still, I do hold fast to the rest of my post though.

stabman · Jul 16, 2015

Poleaxe said:
That's all well and good and I did miss the demko quote. Still, I do hold fast to the rest of my post though.

Fair enough.
We all get to have opinions.

bld522 · Jul 16, 2015

Yep. Still, some mean more to me than others . . . especially those that contribute something thought-provoking to a conversation. Lord knows I've been spun around more than once since I've been here by some well-considered opinions. In fact, it was a well-considered opinion from a guy by the name of Cliff Stamp that brought me here in the first place.

Jonslaught · Jul 16, 2015

bld, what is that alien in your Avatar, whats it from?

crom · Jul 16, 2015

The pin does not pass through the blade. Google RAO disassembly or something similar and click on images. The pin blocks the tang and its held in place by the aluminum handle as far as I could tell.

crom · Jul 16, 2015

Poleaxe said:
Kind of rubs me the wrong way that people, knowing that CS has the strongest lock on the market, are now trying to pin it against quasi-folders with 1/4" thick blade stock with locking pins.It just seems really reaching for something to defeat the Tri-ad lock with unfair rules.It's also no surprise that the ones most vocal in this thread for this match up to happen are the same snarky, thread derailers that have been active in other threads.Posters that should have already been banned from the subforum or at least given warnings IMO.

Poleaxe, the RAO has been around for years. Before theTriad lock anyhow, not some upstart challenger.

bld522 · Jul 16, 2015

Thank you, crom. :thumbup:

Jonslaught said:
bld, what is that alien in your Avatar, whats it from?

It's David McCallum from an episode of Outer Limits called "The Sixth Finger". Here's the IMDB writeup on it:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667848/

Terrific episode, by the way.

Poleaxe · Jul 16, 2015

crom said:
Poleaxe, the RAO has been around for years. Before theTriad lock anyhow, not some upstart challenger.

Yeah, I understand I am familiar with the RAO and I even owned an Extrema Ratio fixed blade( Col Moschin). Still, I just feel like seeing the same people in this thread that I see derail and be overly negative in others suggesting the Tri-ad be put against something with a 1/4" stock blade with a locking pin rubs me the wrong way. It just seems like a way for CS naysayers to get the Tri-ad to lose. It's like.."Damn it! We know it won't lose to any other lock but how about a folder with a locking pin?!" For what it's worth though I'm still not sure it would even lose to the RAO pin or not.

bld522 · Jul 16, 2015

Neither am I. That's what I'm trying to find out. If you're interested in finding out too, stick around.

asdf12345 · Jul 16, 2015

Poleaxe said:
Yeah, I understand I am familiar with the RAO and I even owned an Extrema Ratio fixed blade( Col Moschin). Still, I just feel like seeing the same people in this thread that I see derail and be overly negative in others suggesting the Tri-ad be put against something with a 1/4" stock blade with a locking pin rubs me the wrong way. It just seems like a way for CS naysayers to get the Tri-ad to lose. It's like.."Damn it! We know it won't lose to any other lock but how about a folder with a locking pin?!" For what it's worth though I'm still not sure it would even lose to the RAO pin or not.

Even if it were to lose, it wouldn't disqualify the results of previous testing.

Honestly this is a great chance to show what some extremely strong knives are capable of withstanding. I predict Mr. Demko will hang weight far in excess of 1200 lbs and neither folder will break even as he runs out of weight to hang - a victory for both. I don't see either of them having any trouble with spinewhacks or overstrikes.

ohmyheckinslc · Jul 16, 2015

So by that logic, are the following knives (which have moving parts) fixed blades? Is a sheath a moving part?

(all images owned by their owners, not me)

Sorry,
(/devils advocate complex)

bld522 said:
No, it's not. Fixed-blade knives do not have moving parts . . . PERIOD! That's what the word "fixed" in fixed-blade means.

skwurll · Jul 16, 2015

I would like to know what defines fixed vs folded as well. The presence or lack of a pivot point, I would assume, would be the first and most important descriptive.

Jonslaught · Jul 16, 2015

If it folds, its not a fixed blade.

bld522 · Jul 16, 2015

Precisely. I couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbup: I'd take it one step further, however. I'd say that if a knife can EVER be folded, it's not a REAL fixed-blade. REAL fixed-blade knives can NEVER be folded, or they wouldn't be called "fixed-blades".

PS: For those who still don't understand the difference between a fixed-blade knife and a folder, welcome to Cutlery 101.

philwar · Jul 17, 2015

Jonslaught said:
Sounds to me they ain't have faith in they primary lock.

The primary lock is plenty strong for normal use. But the knife invites fixed blade-like handling, and the blade itself is very heavy. So the pin (which does not pass through the blade btw) does provide a lot of reassuring extra security, acting like an inverted stop pin.

The screw-in pin would provide the RAO with exactly the added strength it would need if it was pitted against the 4 MAX. It would absorb both spine whacks and overstrikes which would otherwise impact the locking pin, and weight hang tests similarly would stress the extra pin, which would transfer it to the frame, much like a conventional stop pin would.

I would love to see a match up. I'm buying the 4 MAX regardless, but it would just be an awesome titanic confrontation.

I'm predicting the RAO's primary lock will break, but the inverted stop pin will save it from failing catastrophically. Who will win the weight hang test? If I had to bet, I'd say the 4 MAX, because - as already noted - it's titanium vs aluminium. But they're going to have to bring more weights! :thumbup:

bld522 · Jul 17, 2015

philwar said:
The primary lock is plenty strong for normal use. But the knife invites fixed blade-like handling, and the blade itself is very heavy. So the pin (which does not pass through the blade btw) does provide a lot of reassuring extra security, acting like an inverted stop pin.

The screw-in pin would provide the RAO with exactly the added strength it would need if it was pitted against the 4 MAX. It would absorb both spine whacks and overstrikes which would otherwise impact the locking pin, and weight hang tests similarly would stress the extra pin, which would transfer it to the frame, much like a conventional stop pin would.

I would love to see a match up. I'm buying the 4 MAX regardless, but it would just be an awesome titanic confrontation. I'm predicting the RAO's primary lock will break, but the inverted stop pin will save it from failing catastrophically. Who will win the weight hang test? If I had to bet, I'd say the 4 MAX, because - as already noted - it's titanium vs aluminium. But they're going to have to bring more weights! :thumbup:

Yep. That's my read on it as well. And thanks for confirming that the RAO's supporting pin does NOT pass through the blade, thereby fastening it to the handle. I guess the RAO is a REAL folder after all.

Jonslaught · Jul 17, 2015

bld522 said:
Yep. That's my read on it as well. And thanks for confirming that the RAO's supporting pin does NOT pass through the blade, thereby fastening it to the handle. I guess the RAO is a REAL folder after all.

How this was ever in question is.. lost my traina thought.

I still view that pin as external from the knife: if that were to ever get lost, it would never be what it was, is my reasoning. That's why I have said "knife to knife" or "structure to structure", because the pin is external to the structure and knife. Most of the tests are mock scenarios for a blade, what if you had lost your RAO pin? It would never perform the same way again. That's my take.

That being said, the pin could prove to be the stick in Cold Steel's spokes.

BUT! (Lynn's "big but")

If and when the 4MAX wins : "People worshiped the Demko because he had given authority to the Tri-Ad Lock, and they also worshiped the Tri-Ad Lock and asked, "Who is like the Tri-Ad Lock? Who can wage war against it?" ... Evisceration (13:4)

Poleaxe · Jul 17, 2015

I'm gonna laugh pretty hard if the RAO loses even with pin. The amount of salt(tears) in the thread and video would be enough to preserve all of the cod in the sea.