Lock Strength Test Request - Extrema Ratio RAO vs the Cold Steel 4-MAX

Jonslaught said:
If the blade breaks first, its still a win for Cold Steel. Because that's what it means to have a safe lock. I've seen it happen twice on AUS8 models, both times the Tri-Ad still functions. Though I've never seen CPM 20cv snap...

This is a great thread, and I'm glad to be a part of it. I had fun in the other one, but it feels better to lend to serious talk.

I'm rooting for 4MAX to hold up. Not because I'm gungho for CS, but I love the simplicity of the Tri-Ad lock. That little stop pin is such a hero. The RAO you actually have to screw in a 2ndary safety. This points to the reason for the sheath on the RAO allowing for it to be carried in open blade position. Guaranteed folks in market for a larger folder will not even consider the RAO over the 4MAX. Why would they? The RAO is a fixed blade...

As for the RAO... its a menace, its an abomination, it must be destroyed. If not, its gonna destroy the city! Things a monster! I guess I'm not ready for serious talk.
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Wait, so the screw isn't actuated along with the operation of moving the blade from the closed to the open position? You have to screw in a safety manually?

So it's effectively a folder that actually requires two hands to both lock and unlock?

And before some smartass says that the Tri-Ad requires two hands..

Even so I think it would be a great test. If the 4Max happened to win, then the 4Max not only has better blade steel, better cutting geometry, is lighter weight and less expensive, but is also a one-handed folder rather than one that literally requires two hands to "fully" lock and unlock.
 
Yes to both.

The Tri-Ad can require one. On my Recon 1 I just leave my finger up on the handle choil and the ricasso hits my finger when I press in the rocker bar, then I rotate my hand up and finish the closure with my thumb. On the XL voyager tanto I just angle the blade down when I press the bar for risk of partially severed finger then finish the closure in the same way.

I would be interested to see how the sideways AXIS lock holds up on its own, without the screw. I would want to know if its stronger than the vertical AXIS lock.
 
I think the 4 Maxx would be just as strong as the RAO. In both cases, something would break before the lock, most likely the blade.
 
1/4'' stock on the RAO of n690 steel, that someone here said was tough as all hell. I don't think the blades breakin. Maybe the screw will shear off, if this happens the AXIS lock will just melt apart at the high weight they would no doubt be holding at the time. That or the aluminum will warp and keep warping till breakage. As for the 4MAX I don't see the stop pin failing in its charge, the blade will snap long before that happens. I love that little bugger, referring to the stop pin.

Torsion caused the Voyager to snap at 451, but that was a 3mm thick AUS8A blade with a handle of FRN lined with aluminum. The 4MAX's has a 4.5mm thick cpm 20cv blade with a handle that is G-10 lined with titanium. Anyone think torsion can occur with these materials?
 
Stays Sharp said:
Whoa, really gonna go the "It's a fixed blade" route on this one eh?

I'd rather see the big bad Cold Steel 100% of the time than this cherry picking on CRKt, Spyderco etc. and turn soft when a real threat to lock strength comes around.

RAO's a fixed blade.... Puahahaha! Awe man that is good.
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I read the comment as a tongue in cheek nod to ER's marketing of the knife. He also said he believed the RAO was on the list. Not sure what you are worked up about.
 
Jonslaught said:
1/4'' stock on the RAO of n690 steel, that someone here said was tough as all hell. I don't think the blades breakin. Maybe the screw will shear off, if this happens the AXIS lock will just melt apart at the high weight they would no doubt be holding at the time. That or the aluminum will warp and keep warping till breakage. As for the 4MAX I don't see the stop pin failing in its charge, the blade will snap long before that happens. I love that little bugger, referring to the stop pin.

Torsion caused the Voyager to snap at 451, but that was a 3mm thick AUS8A blade with a handle of FRN lined with aluminum. The 4MAX's has a 4.5mm thick cpm 20cv blade with a handle that is G-10 lined with titanium. Anyone think torsion can occur with these materials?
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The AD10 held over 800 lbs and still was functional. Not sure how the 4 Max will measure against that. TBT, one of Demko's customs, would be a better match for the triad, since the blade would be thicker.
 
The triad lock has already proven that the blade will break before the lock does. I'd imagine this will be the case with the RAO, as well. The RAO has the disadvantage of requiring two lock mechanisms compared to one, however. I'm not sure what you are all getting worked up about.
 
ursamajor said:
I read the comment as a tongue in cheek nod to ER's marketing of the knife. He also said he believed the RAO was on the list. Not sure what you are worked up about.
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Right along with Andrew's post at the time, it was an actual discussion here whether the RAO was a folder or not. Whether it was toungue in cheek or whatever, it's ridiculous. I did read him say that the RAO was on the list, if you are not sure what I am workedup about though then you should read my other posts if you care so much to really know. Does CS' youtube have any losing testing videos against competitor's knives? No? I just feel like like if the test was to happen and the 4MAX won, it would be heralded on a thread here but if it were to lose I am certain that they will not publish it. Its their tests... Their results... and it's aimed at CS fans' entertainment.

Go ahead, mince my words and throw it back at me :p
 
Stays Sharp said:
Right along with Andrew's post at the time, it was an actual discussion here whether the RAO was a folder or not. Whether it was toungue in cheek or whatever, it's ridiculous. I did read him say that the RAO was on the list, if you are not sure what I am workedup about though then you should read my other posts if you care so much to really know. Does CS' youtube have any losing testing videos against competitor's knives? No? I just feel like like if the test was to happen and the 4MAX won, it would be heralded on a thread here but if it were to lose I am certain that they will not publish it. Its their tests... Their results... and it's aimed at CS fans' entertainment.

Go ahead, mince my words and throw it back at me :p
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This much is certain. If CS doesn't test the RAO, there won't be anything to report. So rather than tick them off by throwing it in their face, I say we just lay low for awhile and see what happens.

It's easier to attract bees with honey than with a baseball bat!
 
Very hard to discern a joke in a DISCUSSION on a message board. I mean, I can say I eat babies one day and the next say I have never done so.

Sooooooooooooo we are back to the RAO being a folder. Everyone in agreement?
 
bld522 said:
This much is certain. If CS doesn't test the RAO, there won't be anything to report. So rather than tick them off by throwing it in their face, I say we just lay low for awhile and see what happens.
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Sorry, I felt compelled to reply. I was pretty much done.
 
Absolutely! Now is it a folder than can EMULATE a real fixed blade? That's Extrema Ratio's claim. Hopefully CS will put that claim to the test and we'll find out for sure one way or the other.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Very hard to discern a joke in a DISCUSSION on a message board. I mean, I can say I eat babies one day and the next say I have never done so.

Sooooooooooooo we are back to the RAO being a folder. Everyone in agreement?
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Good reading comprehension helps with that. Yes, the RAO is a folder. Yes, we all want to see CS test it.
 
True that. I read Jon's post late last night just before I went to bed and admittedly missed his meaning. My bad!
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Good reading comprehension helps with that. Yes, the RAO is a folder. Yes, we all want to see CS test it.
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I call BS.

Question my reading comprehension all you want. That was NOT their position yesterday.

We all want to see CS test it... I want to see ONE just ONE test on their YT page where their knife loses. Comprehend that. Not gonna happen because either their knife never loses at anything or it doesnt make business sense to do so.
 
Yes, Andrew did say it was a real fixed blade. And yes, we all know that's not true. Whether it's as STRONG as a real fixed blade is what needs to be determined. And somebody needs to put that to the test. If you're not going to do it, I'd suggest you calm down and give CS a chance. They have the most to gain or lose from the outcome. And if they don't test it . . . well that's a topic for another conversation.
 
Stays Sharp said:
I call BS.

Question my reading comprehension all you want. That was NOT their position yesterday.
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The context of the statement and the quotes used around the Extrema Ratio ad copy make it painfully obvious that Mr. Demko is having a bit of fun. I recommend you do the same. Read up on the principle of charity, it helps a tremendous amount when dealing with conversation on the internet.
 
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