Lock Strength Test Request - Extrema Ratio RAO vs the Cold Steel 4-MAX

Even if the RAO wins, The Tri-Ad would still be the strongest folder lock on the market. We're talking conventional folders here. The RAO uses that pin to aid the blade in its fixed position... Without it, it is a mere AXIS lock.

In terms of what a folder is, compact, fast opening and closure... the Tri-Ad has all that. The RAO, in order for it to reach full strength you gotta perform another manual action. Its kinda like one of those Dragon Ball Z villains powering up -- slow. As opposed to Mario getting a mushroom -- instant. The moment the Tri-Ad opens, its at its full strength. Cold Steel can stake their claim, regardless, in my opinion.

This time around the Tri-Ad's stop pin is being flanked by titanium. Like the AD-10, I do not think it will budge.
 
bld522 said:
True that. The claim being tested here is whether a folder could be developed that has lock strength equal to the breaking point of a fixed blade with a similar geometry. But even if such a folder could be developed or currently exists, would it be correct to call it a "real fixed-blade"? Of course not.
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Agreed. It recently occurred to me that CS has been developing the Triad knives to approximate (as closely as possible) the strength of a FB so, wait for it, they can claim they are virtual fixed blades! Alas, CRKT beat them to the punch on their next marketing term, thus the suit?
 
Jonslaught said:
Even if the RAO wins, The Tri-Ad would still be the strongest folder lock on the market. We're talking conventional folders here. The RAO uses that pin to convert the folder into a "fixed blade"... Without it, it is a mere AXIS lock.

In terms of what a folder is, compact, fast opening and closure... the Tri-Ad has all that. The RAO, in order for it to reach full strength you gotta perform another manual action. Its kinda like one of those Dragon Ball Z villains powering up -- slow. As opposed to Mario getting a mushroom -- instant. The moment the Tri-Ad opens, its at its full strength. Cold Steel can stake their claim, regardless, in my opinion.

This time around the Tri-Ad's stop pin is being flanked by titanium. Like the AD-10, I do not think it will budge.
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Yup, and if one loses the additional pin, then what? I wouldn't want to have to fiddle with a pin even if it was on a lanyard. Given the weights and sheer size of the RAO, it really is one of those moments where the, "why don't you just get a fixed blade?" sentiment truly applies.
 
Jonslaught said:
We're talking conventional folders here.
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You may be, but Cold Steel isn't. Once again, read the ad copy for the 4-MAX:

"This over-built beast is without a doubt the strongest knife we have ever produced and we're willing to bet that right now, it's the strongest 4" folding knife in the world!"

Source: http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/62RM/4-Max.aspx

There are no qualifiers in that statement as far as I can tell.
 
bld522 said:
You may be, but Cold Steel isn't. Once again, read the ad copy for the 4-MAX:

"This over-built beast is without a doubt the strongest knife we have ever produced and we're willing to bet that right now, it's the strongest 4" folding knife in the world!"

Source: http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/62RM/4-Max.aspx

There are no qualifiers in that statement as far as I can tell.
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Yup. Part of my confusion at the outrage this testing seems to generate is that Cold Steel has been talking that talk for years. Now they're stepping up and, to mix my metaphors, showing us the proof in the pudding.

I'm much more irritated when claims are made with no attempt to back them up.

However, they made the claim and the RAO looks like a serious speed bump, regardless of how much more difficult it might be to set the lock. Personally, I want to see the test no matter what the result.
 
I was alluding to conventional folders in terms of ease of use, lock-up, what not, what a regular folder does.

Those words taken as they are yeah, you got a point, but realistically, these knives aren't comparable in the market. In weight, strength and price, yes. Thats why we want to see the test, but I'm saying from a consumer standpoint. I do not think the result of the test will hamper any sales. When you're in market for the strongest folder, get the 4MAX, when you're in the market for a RAO, get a RAO.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Yup. Part of my confusion at the outrage this testing seems to generate is that Cold Steel has been talking that talk for years. Now they're stepping up and, to mix my metaphors, showing us the proof in the pudding.

I'm much more irritated when claims are made with no attempt to back them up.

However, they made the claim and the RAO looks like a serious speed bump, regardless of how much more difficult it might be to set the lock. Personally, I want to see the test no matter what the result.
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Yep. CS either needs to accept the challenge or skulk away with its tail between its legs. And marketability has absolutely nothing to do with it. Either the 4-MAX is the strongest 4" folding knife in the world or it isn't.
 
You focus too much on claims, where as I choose to focus on the knives themselves. I brought up a fact regarding the outcome of the test. How I believe it will have no impact on sales. It was just an observation.

My focus on both knives pertains to ease of use, etc., those looking to buy a folding knife would no doubt be after. There are some who stick with Benchmade because they prefer its lock over the Tri-Ad, I am one of them, but I have the old tanky CS Ultra Lock models, to satisfy my AXIS needs AND my rare discontinued needs.

I'm not saying it would be the strongest folder, literally, if it falls to the RAO. I'm saying that it would be the strongest folder that can open and lock up on its own, conventionally, without a secondary screw in. And as someone said, if that screw gets lost, which is possible, being the rigorous conditions the RAO was designed for. If that elasto cord snaps, so goes its strength. To the point, the knife itself, depending on that outside screw, is a weakness in itself. At least the LAWKS is permanently fixed to the blade. This is me focusing on the knife. And I favor the one that can do what it does best, on its own -- I think we all can agree on that.
 
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Your dialect is beyond me... I think I might get it...

It might seem like that If I were that "Cold Steelhead" I was labeled in the other thread, though , not going to lie, I purposely embraced it at times. But truthfully as a knife guy, knife to knife, better the one that can hold up on its own. I would want to see 2 tests, one with and one without the screw. The screw 1st, against the 4MAX, because that's what it is meant to be and the true test. And the 2nd one without the screw, against a normal CS Tri-Ad lock knife, because I am curious to see if the horizontal AXIS is stronger than the vertical AXIS. Am I the only one who wants to see this AXIS lock comparison?
 
I'd like CS to run as many tests as they want to. But at the end of the day, there's only one thing I want to know. Is the 4-MAX the strongest 4" folding knife in the world or isn't it?

Insipid Moniker said:
Whether Cold Steel realizes it or not, I use these tests almost entirely to reach conclusions about the competitors knife, not the Cold Steel knife, because they don't give enough access to data on their own blades since they won't keep going to the point of failure.
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If they take on the RAO, they may have to this time.
 
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Jonslaught said:
You focus too much on claims, where as I choose to focus on the knives themselves. I brought up a fact regarding the outcome of the test. How I believe it will have no impact on sales. It was just an observation.

My focus on both knives pertains to ease of use, etc., those looking to buy a folding knife would no doubt be after. There are some who stick with Benchmade because they prefer its lock over the Tri-Ad, I am one of them, but I have the old tanky CS Ultra Lock models, to satisfy my AXIS needs AND my rare discontinued needs.

I'm not saying it would be the strongest folder, literally, if it falls to the RAO. I'm saying that it would be the strongest folder that can open and lock up on its own, conventionally, without a secondary screw in. And as someone said, if that screw gets lost, which is possible, being the rigorous conditions the RAO was designed for. If that elasto cord snaps, so goes its strength. To the point, the knife itself, depending on that outside screw, is a weakness in itself. At least the LAWKS is permanently fixed to the blade. This is me focusing on the knife. And I favor the one that can do what it does best, on its own -- I think we all can agree on that.
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Minutiae don't matter. Both companies' claims say what they say without any reference to ease of use.

It should be tested with the screw in.
 
Well, whatever happens, I believe it will be answered.

General question: How do you think a sideways axis lock (in any knife) would do in the spinewhacks and overstrike tests, seeing as the impact is horizontal?
 
asdf12345 said:
Minutiae don't matter. Both companies' claims say what they say without any reference to ease of use.

It should be tested with the screw in.
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Testing with the screw out would only satisfy my curiosity on the difference in strength between the vertical and horizontal AXIS lock. Thats why I would pit the unscrewed RAO against a non 4MAX. I'd nominate the Voyager, that one seemed to hold its own pretty well, and I think it would be fair considering the stock of the RAO, to set the bar that high.

If only Benchmade made a knife that thick, we can test the two directly. That was the only point of my comment, not anything to the effect that its unfair to test the 4MAX against a screwed RAO. Hell, I nominated the 4MAX in my original post.
 
Well I'd suggest we not confuse the issue. Let's just stick with the RAO against the 4-MAX which, not to put too fine a point on it, is the topic of this thread. ;)
 
I'll play ball. I would hate to be the possible cause of the video released being: "Extrema Ratio RAO (Unscrewed) vs the Cold Steel Voyager in CTS BD1."
 
bld522 said:
I'd like CS to run as many tests as they want to. But at the end of the day, there's only one thing I want to know. Is the 4-MAX the strongest 4" folding knife in the world or isn't it?



If they take on the RAO, they may have to this time.
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Here's to hoping. Not because I have anything against Cold Steel, but I'd rather own a 4-Max than an RAO so I'm more interested in seeing the full extent of what it can do. Though some may consider it perverse that I'm hoping the knife I prefer loses. ;)
 
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