Lock Strength Test Request - Extrema Ratio RAO vs the Cold Steel 4-MAX

Insipid Moniker said:
The context of the statement and the quotes used around the Extrema Ratio ad copy make it painfully obvious that Mr. Demko is having a bit of fun. I recommend you do the same. Read up on the principle of charity, it helps a tremendous amount when dealing with conversation on the internet.
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Like I said... At the time, things were "a little" different... It's a fixed blade this, excuses coming out the woodwork before any test can happen... AT THE TIME.

So at that time...MY comments get questioned but theirs are JUST JOKES...ok

Oh that's right I'm in THEIR subforum, what did I expect.
 
Is there ANYTHING I can say to calm you down? Or are you dead set on poisoning the test before it even happens?
 
So your actions are at the mercy of others' actions? Be a big man and walk away for all our sakes.
 
bld522 said:
So your actions are at the mercy of others' actions? Be a big man and walk away for all our sakes.
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You're into William Henry's and 3 inch folders for Christ's sake, why are you so interested in this test anyway?

Something to debate about? Something to take your time? Maybe that is why I am here also.

Never seen you so interested in COLD STEEL bld. Not even in your Beavis days.
 
What's it to either of you? Are you just spoiling for a fight? Drop it for crissake.
 
For the enjoyment of discussing cutlery with like-minded individuals. Do I need to have any more reason that that?
 
bld522 said:
What's it to either of you? Are you just spoiling for a fight? Drop it for crissake.
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I am willing to and agree that I should.....................................

bld522 said:
For the enjoyment of discussing cutlery with like-minded individuals. Do I need to have any more reason that that?
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Fair answer. :cool:

Just wondering what happened these past two weeks with you.
 
Stays Sharp said:
I'm a paying Cold Steel customer. That is enough for me.

Why are you here talking to me?
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Educating others it its own reward.

More seriously, I'm honestly curious why these tests upset you so much. I've made no bones about the fact that I like 'em. Heck, I want someone to build a better lock than the Triad and do their own tests. Maybe that will, in turn, inspire CS to step up and make a lock that's better still.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Educating others it its own reward.

More seriously, I'm honestly curious why these tests upset you so much. I've made no bones about the fact that I like 'em. Heck, I want someone to build a better lock than the Triad and do their own tests. Maybe that will, in turn, inspire CS to step up and make a lock that's better still.
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It's not just the testing itself anymore. It recently dawned on me that: Would CS actually publish LOSING tests? If not, then what is the point and it defeats YOUR arguments for keeping these tests altogether. May be going out on a limb but business wise I just do not see them posting vids on their YT of their knife losing. They may do ONE nowbut it is skewed towards their best interests. You reply to me wisely on these threads well you should wise up.
 
Well one thing to keep in mind is that your question may be moot. Has CS ever lost a test? If they haven't, they have nothing to publish. Is that possible? I don't know. You tell me. And if they were to lose a test, would they publish it? I don't know that either. And neither do you. So you're starting a fight without even knowing if there's anything to fight about.
 
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Stays Sharp said:
It's not just the testing itself anymore. It recently dawned on me that: Would CS actually publish LOSING tests? If not, then what is the point and it defeats YOUR arguments for keeping these tests altogether. May be going out on a limb but business wise I just do not see them posting vids on their YT of their knife losing. They may do ONE nowbut it is skewed towards their best interests. You reply to me wisely on these threads well you should wise up.
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I don't entirely disagree. That's one reason I'd like to see more testing, and not just of lock strength which is a somewhat tertiary concern for me, industry wide. Benchmade did some with the Axis lock and, for me at least, pretty definitively demonstrated that the Axis is, if not as strong as the Triad, at least more than strong enough for my purposes.

I absolutely salivate over the idea of each company releasing CATRA results for their knives and I would give my right...well, someone's right arm...to get a look at the results of Spyderco's lock testing partly because it sounds much more scientific and consistent. Given that kind of data we might be able to establish some things like not only what a lock would hold, but how that strength changes when the lock is applied to a larger or smaller folder. Ideally, we could come up with a standard deviation that would give us a much more accurate concept of what a lock will endure based on the inevitable variations and imperfections in the manufacturing process.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We buy knives based on anecdotal evidence and marketing hype, not on true measures of performance. I have my doubts if that will ever change, but I want it to. Whether Cold Steel realizes it or not, I use these tests almost entirely to reach conclusions about the competitors knife, not the Cold Steel knife, because they don't give enough access to data on their own blades since they won't keep going to the point of failure.
 
We're all knife guys here, pretty sure we know the definition of a true fixed blade versus one that makes the claim, but is only a folder.
 
Stays Sharp said:
I call BS.

Question my reading comprehension all you want. That was NOT their position yesterday.

We all want to see CS test it... I want to see ONE just ONE test on their YT page where their knife loses. Comprehend that. Not gonna happen because either their knife never loses at anything or it doesnt make business sense to do so.
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Outside of the RAO, what locking mechanism do you think is going to beat the Triad? TBT, I do not even need a test to know that the Triad would come out ahead of the:
Liner lock,
Frame lock,
Axis lock (and variants, save the ram lock),
Power lock,
Standard Lockback.

In terms of pure strength, NONE of those designs will be able to match up to the Triad.

My predictions for the RAO, if it were to go head to head with the Triad-the pseudo axis is going to get muey sloppy with the spine whacks and over strikes, but will pass. Then it will be stop pin vs stop pin on the weight hang test. With that, the failure will be either the first blade to snap, or handle to fracture.

I do believe however, that is CS did the weight hang in reverse-meaning positive pressure instead of negative pressure, the 4Max will win handily.
 
crom said:
We're all knife guys here, pretty sure we know the definition of a true fixed blade versus one that makes the claim, but is only a folder.
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True that. The claim being tested here is whether a folder could be developed that has lock strength equal to the breaking point of a fixed blade with a similar geometry. But even if such a folder could be developed or currently exists, would it be correct to call it a "real fixed-blade"? Of course not.
 
ursamajor said:
Outside of the RAO, what locking mechanism do you think is going to beat the Triad? TBT, I do not even need a test to know that the Triad would come out ahead of the:
Liner lock,
Frame lock,
Axis lock (and variants, save the ram lock),
Power lock,
Standard Lockback.

In terms of pure strength, NONE of those designs will be able to match up to the Triad.

My predictions for the RAO, if it were to go head to head with the Triad-the pseudo axis is going to get muey sloppy with the spine whacks and over strikes, but will pass. Then it will be stop pin vs stop pin on the weight hang test. With that, the failure will be either the first blade to snap, or handle to fracture.

I do believe however, that is CS did the weight hang in reverse-meaning positive pressure instead of negative pressure, the 4Max will win handily.
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Yep. The Tri-Ad is a spectacular lock . . . total overkill for most applications, but a spectacular lock nonetheless. And I, for one, don't really see the need to test it any further to prove that point. But if CS is going to keep making the claim that it's the strongest lock in the world, they'll need to keep proving it. And right now the RAO looks like the number one contender to the title.
 
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