Lock Strength Test Request - Extrema Ratio RAO vs the Cold Steel 4-MAX

Ankerson said:
It's not released yet so they could include them without much of a problem. ;)
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"Could" and "will" remain to be seen. Right now it isn't indicated whether they will or not. But perhaps the RAO will make that decision for them.
 
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Jonslaught said:
Lets entertain Ankerson's scenario for a second. That would mean that this would be a contest between a knife that has a modified AXIS lock with a pin vs the Tri-Ad Lock with a pin. So Axis lock vs Tri-Ad lock... we know the outcome this will produce.

As of now, we know that the 4MAX doesnt include a pin.
But the clamor we have raised here may just influence them to include one.
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CS could easily add the safety pin if they wanted to or felt the need to include it, just a simple friction fit hardened steel pin like the option in the customs.
 
bld522 said:
Can and will remain to be seen. Right now it isn't indicated whether they will or not. But perhaps the RAO will make that decision for them.
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If they choose to add it then the RAO will fail long before the 4 Max as the 4 Max has Ti Liners same as the AD-10's do.

Against an Aluminum RAO..... Well I can guess how that is going to go. ;)
 
Agreed. But nothing in the literature indicates that CS intends to include a pin with the 4-MAX. So it's up in the air right now.
 
Unless, of course, the RAO can defeat the 4-MAX without it. ;) And even then the question would remain whether the 4-MAX with a pin installed is stronger than a RAO with its pin installed.
 
I understand you really want to get rid of that pin, Jim. But Extrema Ratio won't let you and as much as I respect you, neither will I.
 
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So it's a fixed blade again? :p Are we joking this time, because I was blamed for everything wrong with the world the last go round for taking statements at face value.

At this point, even if the test was done...whatever the result, will end up in a clash of input and opinions as we can't even agree on a folder being a folding knife.

The pin acts as a lock on the RAO that folds. You disengage it and the primary lock and...wait for it... it folds. Regardless even if the RAO wins there are excuses already lined up and if the 4Max wins, it's gonna get pumped up as beating a fixed blade... Jim has a point in that the RAO's aluminum scales will probably crumple on itself eventually before the Ti 4Max does. Getting more pointless by the day (just my opinion, sorry Bld).
 
Stays Sharp said:
So it's a fixed blade again? :p Are we joking this time, because I was blamed for everything wrong with the world the last go round for taking statements at face value.

At this point, even if the test was done...whatever the result, will end up in a clash of input and opinions as we can't even agree on a folder being a folding knife.

The pin acts as a lock on the RAO that folds. You disengage it and the primary lock and...wait for it... it folds. Regardless even if the RAO wins there are excuses already lined up and if the 4Max wins, it's gonna get pumped up as beating a fixed blade... Jim has a point in that the RAO's aluminum scales will probably crumple on itself eventually before the Ti 4Max does. Getting more pointless by the day (just my opinion, sorry Bld).
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I'm actually with you on this one. I would argue the pin is a secondary lock and, as such, should be included for the RAO. Honestly, I'd like to see the RAO tested to failure with and without the pin and the 4-Max tested the same way. Doubt I'll get my wish, though. :(
 
Yes the design is uncommon but imagine if the American brands started utilizing external and secondary locking features on some of their folders.... Are they not gonna be folders anymore? And if not...Why not?

Can you fold a fixed blade into its handle by unscrewing or removing something? Can you turn a good ol fixed blade into a folder? So if the RAO is a fixed blade, why does it fold? :confused:
 
Stays Sharp said:
Yes the design is uncommon but imagine if the American brands started utilizing external and secondary locking features on some of their folders.... Are they not gonna be folders anymore? And if not...Why not?
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Not to derail, but there is a little lawsuit going on about fixed blades and secondary locks. ;)
 
Yeah, let's leave lawsuits alone in this thread if that's all right with you. There are other places to discuss that.
 
So, who gets to use the phrase: "Strongest 4" folding knife" ? :yawn::) There is so much implied in that statement...it would have to be clarified beyond those 4 words.:confused:
 
The RAO should only be tested with pin-in. The 4-Max maybe w/pin-in and pin-out.:):D
 
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skwurll said:
So, who gets to use the phrase: "Strongest 4" folding knife" ? :yawn::) There is so much implied in that statement...it would have to be clarified beyond those 4 words.:confused:
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Well, I know their pocket clips are the strongest without a doubt :p Their locks also but that is just my opinion. Pocket clips though FACT :eek:
 
Without the test in mind, for a moment. Just speaking on the knife, itself: Knife to knife, I find it weak that RAO relies on an external pin to gain its full strength. If that pin were to get lost -- given the rigorous intense conditions that calls for such a blade -- it wouldn't have it. And this Axis Lock being a horizontal one, without the pin, in mind, what that knife was designed for -- lateral force (chopping, thrashing, etc.), I wonder how long the horizontal Axis Lock would hold up against horizontal force. Axis is a spring lock. Does Benchmades's vertical Axis Lock hold up well to lateral force because its vertical? This is why I want to see the different Axis Locks go at it, as well. I doubt Benchmakes a knife that thick to properly test it.

bld, I hope this whole test thing isn't related to that... other thing... And you possibly wanting a certain company to reap their own harvest should its own claim fall to the RAO, as the ...other's... claim... fell to theirs. In reference to my above assessment of the RAO, you championing such a ridiculous knife (lol it has a double tanto tip designed for penetration, and it can't even do that! The hole it made was microscopic in comparison to one of the actual fixed blades, which happened to be a Cold Steel LOL), lends to that conclusion. And if its obvious, then I chose to look at it a different way.

That being said, I am as in for this test as I was in my initial post, nothing has fallen to change. And despite my words, I find the RAO to be a pretty awesome design and I ordered a Chinese clone the other day lol. Sorry, America. :(
 
Jonslaught said:
bld, I hope this whole test thing isn't related to that... other thing...
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Nope. This whole test thing is related to walking the talk. Cold Steel claims that they make the strongest 4" folding knife in the world. In my view, if a legitimate contender threatens that claim and Cold Steel chooses not to recant it, they are honor-bound to defend it. End of story.
 
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Stays Sharp said:
So it's a fixed blade again? :p Are we joking this time, because I was blamed for everything wrong with the world the last go round for taking statements at face value.

At this point, even if the test was done...whatever the result, will end up in a clash of input and opinions as we can't even agree on a folder being a folding knife.

The pin acts as a lock on the RAO that folds. You disengage it and the primary lock and...wait for it... it folds. Regardless even if the RAO wins there are excuses already lined up and if the 4Max wins, it's gonna get pumped up as beating a fixed blade... Jim has a point in that the RAO's aluminum scales will probably crumple on itself eventually before the Ti 4Max does. Getting more pointless by the day (just my opinion, sorry Bld).
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The pin on the RAO actually blocks the blade from closing once it's manually screwed in making it technically a fixed blade at that point. That's how the knife was designed, the sheath is even designed to hold it that way.

So at that point the only 2 ways the knife will actually fail is if the blade snaps or the handle fails (Breaks/collapses etc)..... Same as a fixed blade.

No matter how one tries to spin it that is what happens.

Once the pin is in there is no lock, it's a fixed pin that is holding the blade from closing.
 
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