Lock Strength Test Request - Extrema Ratio RAO vs the Cold Steel 4-MAX

bld522 said:
And I have no problem testing the RAO as you described, Jim. But the pin is included on purpose and is what Extrema Ratio claims gives the RAO the ability to turn itself into a real fixed blade. If the knife is going to be tested fully, it needs to be tested with all of its parts installed.
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The RAO wouldn't really be a folder with the pin installed, as in one couldn't just disengage the lock and close the knife, they would have to unscrew the pin and take it out then disengage the lock to close it.
 
The T.R.E. wouldn't be able to call itself a flipper with the flipper removed either. But it does. Modular design, Jim. Think modular design.
 
bld522 said:
The T.R.E. wouldn't be able to call itself a flipper with the flipper removed either. But it does. Modular design, Jim. Think modular design.
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Supposed to be a lock test. ;)

So to test the lock the pin can't be installed or it would be a safety pin test that turns the RAO into a fixed blade as the knife was designed to be.

Now that said let Cold Steel install the the safety pin in the 4 Max, it is an option in Demko Customs by the way and the 4 Max is made the same way for the most part.
 
Ankerson said:
Now a fair test between the two knives taking everything into count would be to test the RAO without the pin in place to keep things fair and above board.
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I see what you're saying, knife on knife, primary structure on primary structure. But without the screw, over too quickly. That's why I suggested an unscrewed RAO against a lesser Tri-Ad lock model. For the 4MAX you need the screw, because that knife is at its full strength as soon as its opened, we need the RAO to be the same. Plus it is designed to be used with the screw to complete its claim that it becomes a real fixed blade. A test of claims this is turning out to be.
 
Ankerson said:
Supposed to be a lock test. ;)
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You know what I'm talking about. ;) And I'm surprised you'd suggest that any folder could be turned into a fixed-blade, real or otherwise. My understanding is that fixed-blade knives are not designed to fold under any circumstances. But hey, you can apply any definition you like. :)

Anyway, on with the test I say! :thumbup:
 
Jonslaught said:
I see what you're saying, knife on knife, primary structure on primary structure. But without the screw, over too quickly. That's why I suggested an unscrewed RAO against a lesser Tri-Ad lock model. For the 4MAX you need the screw, because that knife is at its full strength as soon as its opened, we need the RAO to be the same. Plus it is designed to be used with the screw to complete its claim that it becomes a real fixed blade. A test of claims this is turning out to be.
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Andrew could install the safety pin in the 4 Max like I pointed out in my last post. ;)

That would bring it back in line..... EVEN.....
 
He could if the 4-MAX was designed to accept a safety pin and the pin was included with the knife. UNEVEN.
 
bld522 said:
He could if the 4-MAX was designed to accept a safety pin and the pin was included with the knife.
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Either the pins are included in BOTH knives or they aren't included in BOTH knives.

Would have to be that way to be a fair test.

That or test the RAO against a fixed blade of the same specs, 1/4" thick blade, 11.80 Ounces etc.
 
Ankerson said:
Either the pins are included in BOTH knives or they aren't included in BOTH knives.

Would have to be that way to be a fair test.

That or test the RAO against a fixed blade of the same specs, 1/4" thick blade, 11.80 Ounces etc.
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On that we disagree. The pin IS included with the RAO and not included (or designed to be included) with the 4-MAX. End of story. And once again, this isn't a test of the RAO against a fixed-blade. It's a test of the RAO (retail packaging) against the 4-MAX (retail packaging). Please stay on topic.
 
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Didn't notice the pin hole lol...
 
Ankerson said:
Either the pins are included in BOTH knives or they aren't included in BOTH knives.

Would have to be that way to be a fair test.

That or test the RAO against a fixed blade of the same specs, 1/4" thick blade, 11.80 Ounces etc.
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Neither companies' claims are qualified by any statements regarding ease of use or accessibility. Whether one knife requires more actions to fully lock than the other knife does isn't a factor. One of the knives claims to be the strongest 4'' bladed folder in the world. Adding a secondary safety to a folder doesn't mean it's no longer classified as a folder. There's no asterisk on the claim that specifies "The strongest 4'' bladed folder in the world - whose lock is fully operable with one hand."
 
bld522 said:
On that we disagree. The pin IS included with the RAO and not included (or designed to be included) with the 4-MAX. End of story. And once again, this isn't a test of the RAO against a fixed-blade. Please stay on topic.
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All of Andrews Customs, the AD-10 and the 4 Max are designed to accept a safety pin. ;)

The CS 4 Max is also designed that way.
 
I'll ask again. Where's the pin? If it's not included with the knife, it shouldn't be included in the test.
 
Lets entertain Ankerson's scenario for a second. That would mean that this would be a contest between a knife that has a modified AXIS lock with a pin vs the Tri-Ad Lock with a pin. So Axis lock vs Tri-Ad lock... we know the outcome this will produce.

As of now, we know that the 4MAX doesnt include a pin.
But the clamor we have raised here may just influence them to include one.
 
bld522 said:
I'll ask again. Where's the pin? If it's not included with the knife, it shouldn't be included in the test.
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It's an option in the Customs. ;)

Not that many people actually wanted or needed one.

But they are designed that way.

And since the 4 Max is modeled after Andrews Custom it can be technically added for testing and still be above board taking into count the RAO has a safety pin.

It's either that or test both knives without them so it's back to a lock test.
 
Jonslaught said:
Lets entertain Ankerson's scenario for a second. That would mean that this would be a contest between a knife that has a modified AXIS lock with a pin vs the Tri-Ad Lock with a pin. So Axis lock vs Tri-Ad lock... we know the outcome this will produce.

As of now, we know that the 4MAX doesnt include a pin.
But the clamor we have raised here may just influence them to include one.
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Until they do, they don't.
 
Ankerson said:
It's an option in the Customs. ;)

Not that many people actually wanted or needed one.

But they are designed that way.

And since the 4 Max is modeled after Andrews Custom it can be technically added for testing and still be above board taking into count the RAO has a safety pin.

It's either that or test both knives without them so it's back to a lock test.
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Retail packaging versus retail packaging. Otherwise it's apples to oranges.
 
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