Long knife vs Axe vs Hatchet vs Machete vs compact shovel

for general carry, i lean towards a long knife (7-8") and a small folder. my larger camp blade will do the shelter/fire chores that are needed for backpacking and survival if needed. in my truck i carry a folding saw, a glock folding shovel and a small hatchet with a hammer poll. i've been considering a larger wetterling or roselli axe (20"), to keep in the truck instead of the smaller hatchet.
i'd say that alot of it depends on locale, as some have stated, usa/europe covers a wide range of wilderness types.
 
I would go with a large knife, 7 to 8 inch blade, a folder or 3 to 4 inch fixed blade.
Scott
 
Cliff Stamp said:
There was a passaround on the Pal, the performance is very low, no primary grind, edge way too thick for wood work.

-Cliff
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Yes, it has a thick edge. A thin edge, like on the traditional machette, cuts into wood and sticks. Using alternating angled cuts removing "bites" from wood, the Pal cuts quite well without the edge breaking or sticking like a thinner machette might. The full blade thickness also gives it the heft for momentum to cut without the "spring" effect that sends a shockwave back up your arm. It can be used as a drawknife, hatchet, machette, brush hook, and even a shovel in moderate soils if need be.

I give it high marks in versitility, which was the original question, I think. But I certainly understand others prefering a different tool. If I intended to cut a lot of wood and were camping from my vehicle, I'd definately take my chainsaw, or precut wood itself. Usually when one thinks of "wilderness", what comes to mind is transport by shank's mare, and light weight multipurpose tools come to mind. I can also understand the perception of poor performance from a tool one is unfamiliar with. Having the patience to learn the ins and outs of the tool makes all the difference in the satisfaction of the user. I also understand the boredom of some with traditional designs, always seeking that latest hi-buck gadget to overcome a lack of skill or knowledge. Afterall, at more than 64 years old, the Woodsman's Pal is no new kid on the block, and is in fact quite long in the tooth.

That said, I almost always carry a 5 1/2" heavy bladed trailing point knife and my EDC stockman. I have dug roots with the knife, speared and twisted a raccoon from a tree, done a mulltitude of fish and wildlife into meat, stirred and eaten supper with that blade in front of a shelter made with the same knife. The knife is an old (circa 1967) Schrade Walden Woodsman 165, but could as well be an old Pal, Marbles Woodcraft or Ideal, a Remington (not a newer chinee), Kinfolks, Cattaraugus, Buck, or Case. It's carbon blade is easy to sharpen, holds an edge well, and the thick spine will throw a shower of sparks like stainless never imagined.

To each his own, I guess. My philosophy is that newer and more expensive is not always better. Quite often, someone got it right years ago!

But then I am just an old ....
Codger:D
 
Codger_64 said:
Yes, it has a thick edge. A thin edge, like on the traditional machette, cuts into wood and sticks. Using alternating angled cuts removing "bites" from wood, the Pal cuts quite well without the edge breaking or sticking like a thinner machette might.
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This isn't an issue of edge thickness but primary grind profile, machetes stick because they are flat stock, they also have quite thick edges for this reason. A standard ontario machete for example has an edge 0.125" thick, even a heavy tactical knives is less than half of that. You can also get the necessary heft and weight for thick wood work while still being functional for light with the proper primary grind and blade balance, a simple golok or parang for example and of course the ABS bowies by makers like Kirk which will be very fluid in thick woods while cutting exceptionally well.

-Cliff
 
Weight info:
1. Battle Rat - 440 g
2. Fehrman American Tomahawk - Lagana VTAC - 450 g
3. Valiant Survival Golok - 590 g
4. Roselli axe (large) - 850 g
 
A Fiskars model 600 camping ax weighs 520 grams.

Its extremely sharp off the box (the edge is HRC is 50-56), the blade will NOT come loose ever, because its specially molded in to the shaft,handle is fiberglass reinforced composite. Length is 360 mm.

It WILL not break under any condition(unless driven over with a tank.Twice....:)

Hard to beat imho...
 
Defintely a small belt axe. I also like either a machete or small bolo/kurkri which can be used in place of a large knife and defintely useful in brush and thickets.

We're considering doing a Pass Around with our Rainier Scout Belt Axe. Keep an eye on our Bear Mountain Forum for news - we'll start the list January 2nd Through January 9th and then start the pass.
 
I really like the Granfors Bruks small forest axe, but a handy thing to carry in the woods is a simple forged tomahawk If you break a handle, you can cut a new one in about thirty minutes to an hour. Also properly sharpened it is excellent for camp/kitchen chores with the handle removed. An hawk or an axe is also a handy tool for quartering big game.
 
I used to carry a hatchet but I always had to improvise a way to bury my waste or dig a fire pit.Now I have a few different small shovels and I am much happier on my woodland outings.

I have sharpened a few of my shovels but they still make pretty poor hatchets.My favorite in use,blade shape and sharpness(after lots of work) has a rotating telescopic handle that does not inspire confidence but has not failed during serious use even once is my Glock E Tool.I would prefer to find something a little more robust and with a design that would lend itself to chopping a little better(still won't ever beat a hatchet) but overall utility in real life is the goal so I'd have to suggest a shovel.
 
as far as the woodsmans pal, i have come to like it a lot, it does a whole bunch of jobs, i reprofiled the edge a bit and the perfromance is better than my martindale jungle knife on woody material, i have parted logs in the 10 inch range with it, and it has held its edge well. i have batonned it, it does not get stuck in wood like some of the narrow blades, dug holes with it, used it to remove all manner of fence line vegetation, pruned trees with the brush hook, used to to drag brush, i take it with me when i am out in the wood lot as it is very compact and versatile for the type of wood lot management that i need to do. if i had it in a survival situation i would feel pretty comfortable using it. it will build a shelter pretty quickly, i have not chopped through ice with it, it would give you a whole bunch of fire wood easily, i think it is also safer than a golok or axe as it does not tend bo rebound or ricochet off of hard wood like i have had some of the various machetes and axes do. i have not used it as a draw knife, but it has potential in this aspect also. so i will keep mine, maybe it is not for everybody, but some of us have found a place for it.

alex
 
I have used hatchet/folding knife combos in camping/hiking for years but in recent times I find a 6" - 8" knife the best all around choice in most situations. I can dig, chop, etc. with the right knife, and it's less to carry in weight and volume.
 
For me, it depends upon my mood (and purpose; hike, stroll in woods, walk down the road, fishing, hunting, etc.) what I carry. One day, it might be my Wetterling hatchet, or my old Norlund Hudson Bay Hatchet. The next, my CS Trailmaster Bowie, or my Western 49 Bowie (modified Bagwell style, quillions shortened!). If I am hunting I might just grab my UH oldtimer or my Buck 110, but I have a sidearm or shotgun with me. With no firearm, such as on a Sunday, I tend to like a big heavy hatchet or Bowie, just in case a wild dog or animal crosses my path. Yeah, I know I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, but a big sharp tool makes me feel better anyhow! I'm sure I'm not alone in this simple, primitive comfort...
 
but that's no fun... I find myself using a machete more often than any of the other tools mentioned ( not including pocket knives) . I live in WV not a jungle area.
Currently I own 3 machetes. They are used alot around the house and I carry a CS light machete in my car in case I need to clear a path through brush to a fishing spot. I should probably get a compact shovel too.
 
I've only owned one machete type of blade that I actually used in this area. A WWII bolo by Case XX and I wish I had it today. That sucker could flat cut everything from veggies to firewood.
 
Alex, I agree with your asessment of the Pal. I read the reviews of it, and to be truthful, I was unimpressed with the reviewers efforts to learn the tool, keep it sharp, and use it as it was designed to be used. Some wanted it lighter and thinner (a machette), some wanted it longer and heavier (an ax). Longer and shorter versions are now made, but none of the three versions are pretty or "sexy". Just highly functional. And few cutting tools work well with a dull edge. Most users have a favorite angle of bevel, and I realize the pass around limited the amount of customizing that could be done, but some reviewers didn't even post reviews, some didn't give it a workout beyond a few swipes at different materials on one day. Hardly what I would call a comprehensive, or even fair review of a product. Not much of a surprise that the suggested second round of reviews did not happen then.

It reminds me of the earliest reviews of the M16. True, the "dayum black plastic rifle" needed some fine tuning, but a man who knows it inside out is a force to be reckoned with, as history has shown.

Codger
 
Don't the Pals get used daily by PA forestry inspectors and at the USAF Survival School?

I would think that something better would have been figured out since the military first started using them in WW2.

I have thought about buying one but I can't imagine it replacing my CS ATC Khukri.
 
From a newbie.
I pack a gerber back pax and love it. It is kept shaving sharp, weighs a pound or so, and cuts like a little chain saw. A lot of work when there is a lot of wood to cut though. The next step up does not weigh much more and is a lot less work. I figure it would make a better weapon than a bow saw.
 
mwelch8404 said:
Where's the posssibles bag from? Did you make it or buy it?
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If you are refering to the one that's partially shown in my photo, it was made sometime in the fifties and was given to me a few months ago.
 
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