Long knife vs Axe vs Hatchet vs Machete vs compact shovel

[Thomas Linton]

My point, if so badly stated as to be impossible to understand, is that one large function of this particular forum is presumably to share knowledge, experience, and information to the end that we are better prepared for a wilderness survival situation. If any tool will do as well as any other, there is little point to this thread -- or this forum.

The question seems to be: "Which third hand tool -- added to the two specified --is the best compromise for whatever conditions you might encounter in the wilderness anywhere in this continent? And why?"

While one would typically have a better idea of conditions to be encountered (Few becomong lost in Florida would find themselves in Alberta or the low desert or Arizona.), there is no reason why such a question is outside the bounds of this forum. I have to remind myself that flying can take you from one distinct area to another in minutes. Life rafts have been used for shade in the deserts of California.

I propose an HI khukuri - a combination of big knife and chopping tool that can be used to dig when necessary.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...there is no reason why such a question is outside the bounds of this forum.

There are no questions that should be, the answers however can often be that the question itself is problematic. One of the very first questions I asked on rec.knives was which folder would be most useful for a chopping tool, the answer was that even the best one was walking the wrong road so the plan needs to be changed. There are however a lot more folders now than ten years ago with a lot stronger locks and the question is different now than it was then. There are lots of folders now that can be used as chopping tools, splitting however is still problematic.

I have to remind myself that flying can take you from one distinct area to another in minutes.

You don't even need to fly, you can drive in most provinces just a few hours and change enviroments enough. The Iltis Oxhead that I use locally is near useless just a few hours away, the wood is either too hard or too soft. If I had to pick an axe for the unknown, I would take the money that would buy a Gransfors Bruks and buy three cheap hardware store axes, and a few large bastard files and a dual x-coarse/fine hones. Based on the wood types present in the random drop point I would modify the axes to a felling pattern, limbing/root work and splitter. If for some reason I was restricted to one axe I'd still take the axe plus file and stone over the GB pattern due to versatility upon modification and ability to keep the axe working at near optimal levels. Plus I can hand pick the hardware store axe while the GB one is a random shot and could end up with a handle with cross grain, a knot, or improper head alignment.

I propose an HI khukuri - a combination of big knife and chopping tool that can be used to dig when necessary.

For someone with little experience, and no idea of wood type , or even if there is wood, and no long blade, or means to sharpen any of it, I would probably suggest a decent saw, something with a medium tooth pattern like 8-12 tpi. This is fine enough to work on hard woods, won't get bogged down too badly on really soft sap woods, will work readily even in extreme cold (try to swing an axe at -40 with heavy mitts assuming the axe can even take the impacts) and can also serve as a pseudo-long knife to cut grasses and other thick vegetation, and is a lot safer for a novice than an axe or parang. For really extended stays you can also file with a rock an edge on the back. The teeth are usually too hard for that, ~65 HRC but the blade body is often ~45 HRC.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

I like kukuris and my 15 inch 17 ounce B:A:S is proof of that . Great chopper
though a little light for some . Keeps a keen edge . I don,t know about handling one of those with heavy mitts on either .

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I don,t know about handling one of those with heavy mitts on either .

I use high friction tape, I have used several in the winter with no problems. I like the 18" Ang Khola as a general working khukuri.

-Cliff

 

[LSkylizard]

Updated replies to my narrowed question:

19" OAL, 2#, 6" wide x 3 1/4" cutting edge SA Wetterling large hunters axe: fits in between a heavier, larger felling axe and a hatchet, a tool that I would be comfortable using as an all around tool.
pulaski axe: a combo mattock and axe. I would need a tool to do construction of shelter ...need to dig and chop... the single tool that i would expect might meet these job reqirements.
BK9: not much that knife can't or won't do...
GB brittish trade axe: It's not to big to walk long distances, big enough to cut hardwoods for permanent shelter, it & the multitool can make almost any other tool I might need...axe beats a shovel for shelter construction ...would be a formidable weapon against man or animal...has value as a trade item to people
GB Wildlife Hatchet
GB Small Forest axe: small enough to use one-handed when choked up on or 2 handed for more serious cutting…carry much better and farther that my 2 larger ones...feel more comfortable going into this with it over the 2 smaller ones… the perfect in-between axe.
HI khukuri: a combination of big knife and chopping tool that can be used to dig when necessary
15 inch 17 ounce B:A:S kukuri: .Great chopper, a little light for some, keeps a keen edge.

So far, it appears most feel an axe or similar tool would serve in this capacity best. Please keep answers coming. It is much appreciated. I am curious to hear from others that would choose ONE item other then axe as well. I appreciate the responses on Khukuris and BK9.

 

[bwray]

Updated replies to my narrowed question:

So far, it appears most feel an axe or similar tool would serve in this capacity best. Please keep answers coming. It is much appreciated. I am curious to hear from others that would choose ONE item other then axe as well. I appreciate the responses on Khukuris and BK9.

I prefer a large chopping blade because they are more versatile than an axe. For example, I have two blades that seem about equally capable for chopping wood. The first is a 16" Khukuri House khuk that weighs 26 oz and the second is a 20" survival golok that weighs 20 oz. Both can chop through a 2x4 at a relaxed pace in about 30 - 35 sec; the golok has the added advantage of being useful in a machete mode on lighter target materials.

 

[OmegaA]

It seems to me there is really not much gain/loss if you select either long knife or an axe/hatchet. Do you agree with this?

 

[Thomas Linton]

It seems to me there is really not much gain/loss if you select either long knife or an axe/hatchet. Do you agree with this?

Nope. Depends on what yur' cuttin' On some things, a hand axe is better than a "big" knife. On other things, a full axe is just the ticket. Some poeple can do some things better with the "big" knife

ONE
MORE
TIME:

"There is no best design. There are only best designs for: for certain people, for certain jobs, for certain demands."

Ken Warner
1976

Unless you can carry a "complete set" of tools, you compromise - simple as that. You pick the tools you can practically have available that will perform the widest range of likely tasks within your physical abilities and skills.

Now selecting those compromises, there's the fun.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It seems to me there is really not much gain/loss if you select either long knife or an axe/hatchet.

They are similar on some aspects but radically different than others, a small axe and efficient long blade can work about the same on small woods, 2-4" thick, but the blade is many times more efficient on woods under 2" and the axe just as dominant on larger woods. The long blade is more useful as a draw knife, and in general as a cutting tool. The axe is more powerful as a hammer and as a focused cutting tool using the toe and heel of the bit (working in thick ice for example). There is a lot of overlap, but depending on what exactly is being done, one of them could be *far* the better choice. There are tasks which are near trivial with one but very difficult with the other.

-Cliff

 

[sopmodm4]

I thought about the PAL myself but what I really wanted was a Cold Steel ATC with a bigger,more solid grip and a Moran type edge.

The PAL after being reground now sits in the trunk of my wife's car and I'll be using this as soon as I get my Parkerizing and Micarta scales finished

 

[acwire_2125]

I prefer the Becker BK1! It is good!