long term 2 gun combos for the Great Basin

bkduckworth said:
I'm with NorCal on his recommendation. I think the firearms he recommends are proven commodities offering modern reliability and preformance at a reasonable cost, while also paying due heritage to the area in which you reside.

I like the caliber choice because its going to be alot easier to find 38 or 357 ammo in a store than any of the others besides 22 lr. I know you'll probably be handloading, but this is something that plays a big role for me. I also think the 38/357 fits better between the shotgun/big game rifle.

Now, for a little more unconventional (and still old school, just not quite as old school) combo that would be really cool if you're handloading:

A Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine paired with a surplus M1 carbine. Just think about it :D

Brandon
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One interesting thing with the .32caliber option is that with the new .327 option, you have a very similar performance level to the .30 carbine, and the ease of multiple cartridges in the family.

I should look at reduced ower small game loadings for the .30


I'm not specifically sold on the levergun. I'm happy going hunting with a single shot, for example. the lever seems to offer the most choice in the caliber families I'm looking at.


- since I have a table at the reno gun show, I've been able to watch ammo sales. During the big post-election ammo buyout, .357, .45, and 9mm were the three pistol calibers that were gone instantly. 380 and a bit later, .32acp were next. by day 2, you could find *some* .44 magnum, and .44 special and .38 were still available. .22LR was long gone, of course. Which leads me to think that in any sort of survival situation where ammo acquisition is a big deal, we all might want to rethink things a bit.


-- the .35 is a great round. My "big bad long guns" are currently military centerfire calibers, but my goal is to get a .45-70 once things settle down a bit.



for reference, my current combo is a 12ga brush gun (single shot) and a .38 revolver.
 
ras said:
.357Mag/.38 Spl with a Marlin 1894 and a S&W Mod 19.

My Marlin has the micro-groove rifling so no non-jacketed rounds and it's only accurate with the longer bullets -- I limit it to 158 gr JSP/JHP ammo.

The model 19 will shoot anything but I prefer.38 Spl light loads. The 6" barrel on mine has target sights and a very light trigger in SA -- pretty much a target gun.

If you go with a Marlin 1894 get the deep-cut Ballard-type rifling so you can use a wider range of ammo.
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My carrying revolver is a .38 special 6 inch S&S target masterpiece. glassy smooth action and accurate as anything. Most well balanced revolver I've ever shot.

One thing I didn't bring up but which is something I'm considering, is that I do want a CC snub nose revolver sometime. The charter arms .44 special snubbies, with the availability of .44 magnum lever actions and the introduction of the .44 special blackhawks- really have me leaning that way.

The ballard rifling is important. I definitely prefer to shoot the big and heavy.
 
koyote said:
One interesting thing with the .32caliber option is that with the new .327 option, you have a very similar performance level to the .30 carbine, and the ease of multiple cartridges in the family.

I should look at reduced ower small game loadings for the .30


I'm not specifically sold on the levergun. I'm happy going hunting with a single shot, for example. the lever seems to offer the most choice in the caliber families I'm looking at.


- since I have a table at the reno gun show, I've been able to watch ammo sales. During the big post-election ammo buyout, .357, .45, and 9mm were the three pistol calibers that were gone instantly. 380 and a bit later, .32acp were next. by day 2, you could find *some* .44 magnum, and .44 special and .38 were still available. .22LR was long gone, of course. Which leads me to think that in any sort of survival situation where ammo acquisition is a big deal, we all might want to rethink things a bit.


-- the .35 is a great round. My "big bad long guns" are currently military centerfire calibers, but my goal is to get a .45-70 once things settle down a bit.



for reference, my current combo is a 12ga brush gun (single shot) and a .38 revolver.
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I think that 327 has a ton of potential. Honestly I'm suprised someone hasn't chambered a factory lever rifle in it. And honestly I don't know why I never compared it to the 30 carbine. Just one of of those connections I never made.

I hear ya on common calibers selling out first, but my thoughts have always been, while there might be more competition for common chambering, there would be more availible (due to the amounts that have been produced) for sale/trade/scavange. Plus (post election buying aside) they're usually easier and cheaper for me to find locally.

For example when I was buying a new bolt action rifle, I wanted a 280. Remington express ammo was about 30.00 a box if you can find it. I went with the 30-06 since I could get ammo for 17.00 a box and find it everywere.

Man, there is just something about this time of year that makes me want to buy a new gun!

Brandon
 
The long term depression/survival aspect starts to lead me away from choosing based on popularity and choosing based on the maintaining relaoding.

reloading doesn't necessarily devolve into a solo activity, either. any local group of reloaders will be able to maintain a lot of throughput of ammo for a long time without much more than "common" reloader preparation levels.

I am eagerly awaiting a production .327 levergun (hey, marlin!) to see how that does. And kicking myself over not getting a .32 polic positive 4 inch a while back for a really good price.....
 
koyote said:
- since I have a table at the reno gun show, I've been able to watch ammo sales. During the big post-election ammo buyout, .357, .45, and 9mm were the three pistol calibers that were gone instantly. 380 and a bit later, .32acp were next. by day 2, you could find *some* .44 magnum, and .44 special and .38 were still available. .22LR was long gone, of course. Which leads me to think that in any sort of survival situation where ammo acquisition is a big deal, we all might want to rethink things a bit.
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buy it cheap and stack it deep!

while there's some merit to sticking with standard calibers and avoiding the oddball stuff, that only helps out if you find yourself at your hunting destination and discover that you somehow forgot our ammo.

if you're hoping to buy, trade for or scrounge ammo after some SHTF event, you'd better be VERY lucky.

if you reload you can avoid most of this.

i expect that .40 was also in the "gone instantly" category.

an advantage with the more common calibers is that you're more likely to find that stuff in stock and possibly on sale in NORMAL market conditions... which is when you should be stocking, not when there's a sudden rush or other crisis.
 
With your first preferences, I agree with the .357 Combo. Either Black hawk or 6" model 66. I dearly love the K38 Masterpeice but it is .38 only.

When I read the title "LONG TERM"- it takes me back to a project I wanted to do. A modern repro of a Remington Rolling Block built to take the 35 Whelen. For reloading, it could use .357 pistol bullets in reduced loads for small game or take full loads for anything else. Hand dies work well with it, keep chamber pressure moderate and neck sizing is fine. You could practically make the action parts that might wear out. For a quicker solution, the Ruger No.1 would be a nice one. Not quite as rugged and more small parts but still simple, compact and very versatile.
I hunted with a No.1 lightweight in .243 for deer/turkey one year and was VERY happy with it.

2Door
 
Do you reload right now?

have lots of primers and powder and bullets? cast your own bullets?

do you want the straight wall case just so you can reload it many times??

Why do you want a combo in the same caliber where the rifle doesn't give you lots of range that you might need?

I'm with nemoaz on this one. I don't really know why you would carry a rifle that didn't give you full range. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'm in the woods most of the time. A good 30 cal with downloaded ammo, hammond game getter, or 32 pistol adapters can be used for small game.


Don't expect to find ammo when a crisis starts. All that really matters is that you have a lot of ammo right now. DOn't leave it up to chance.

If you spent 20 dollars a week to buy 500 rounds of 22, at the end of the year you would have 26,000 rounds give or take. That is probably doable by most within a budjet.

-Scott
 
Just to throw in my.02...I lived in Northern Nevada for a long time (12 years) and I always carried a M29 4" S&W w/ K frame round butt and a Marlin 1894 with the micro groove barrel. I didn't take shots over 200 yards and stalk hunted most anything I could get a tag for at Tabletop, in Wendover and out through Elko. I hope this helps, nothin is perfect, only as good as you are.
 
Hard to figure out what you are exactly getting at here. You qualified your choice by saying you already have a big game rifle and shotgun, so that covers all the big stuff, and the bunnies and such.

So all that leaves is self defense and medium size game to cover your bases. For self defense, this is really a "lever action assault rifle" and a revolver to back it up. For game, everything in your list has very limited range, but these are your own self imposed limitations....

Given your self imposed limitations, I would personally go with the .44 and shoot specials in the handgun when not in dangerous game country (don't underestimate the possibility of a free range bovine, deer, or elk that doesn't like you!). There is a new generation of (relatively!) light and/or compact .44 revolvers out there, so don't sell yourself short by ignoring their existance.

I would definitely also throw a .22 rifle in the mix with everything else.
 
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Koyote,

For my short term BOB I do have a 357 Marlin lever action as my choice. I do not carry a pistol because I would rather carry more 357/38 rounds than the extra weight of a pistol and holster.

The 357/38 rifle make sense because it can take small and large game. The 357 will get you as close as you need to be for larger game if you have any hunting skills at all.

For long term I like the 22LR. If I am worrying about a long term situation I want to be quite and carry a lot of ammunition and nothing matches the 22 for that. One thing you need to consider is that if it is a long term situation, you will be out in the woods 24/7. This means you will come across larger game at shorter distances a lot. The 22 LR is capable of taking deer out to 65 to 70 yards. With a scope, that is an easy shot.

I hunt deer in the high saddles of the Trinity Alps here in California and most of my shots are less than 100 yards in very wide open country. If I was out there more than a weekend, I would be bumping into deer at much closer range.

Always carry your rifle with you. 

Thanks,

Geoff
 
I was going to mention the .30 carbine combo as I shot said combo a couple weeks ago, But I see it has been mentioned. As for other combos, I think I'm in the one caliber camp, and I know that lots of settlers and cowboys where my family homestead is chose the .357 lever gun/revolver combo. good enough for pretty much anything but not as punishing as the heavier pistol calibers. plus with the improved performance from the longer barrel, the .357 is enough for the black bears we have At Range still wouldn't want it to be my only hope if one decided to eat me.
This for me would a "store at the cabin" combo. for my way of thinking, the only real long term solution (total society breakdown) is a flint-lock muzzle loader and a good chemistry textbook.
I do know a guy with a .357 maximum levergun, not sure by who. point is, such a beast does exist somewhere.
 
38/357. Its about as flexible as you can get. You could go with wadcutters or 130gr FMJ for small game. Knowing you would not have a reliable follow up shot on a rifle with wadcutters has to be a consideration. I think the 38special is the floor in terms of reliable personal defense, and 357 is marginal as a rifle cartridge - but they get it done at ranges you would need to get it done at. I do think the issue becomes some of the "rifle" cartridges in 357 will not quite work in your wheelie.
 
Only 2? As small and light as a .22 caliber revolver would be, it would really help supplement a larger revolver and rifle when it comes to taking small game. It just makes sense.
 
g123 said:
Koyote,

For my short term BOB I do have a 357 Marlin lever action as my choice. I do not carry a pistol because I would rather carry more 357/38 rounds than the extra weight of a pistol and holster.

The 357/38 rifle make sense because it can take small and large game. The 357 will get you as close as you need to be for larger game if you have any hunting skills at all.

For long term I like the 22LR. If I am worrying about a long term situation I want to be quite and carry a lot of ammunition and nothing matches the 22 for that. One thing you need to consider is that if it is a long term situation, you will be out in the woods 24/7. This means you will come across larger game at shorter distances a lot. The 22 LR is capable of taking deer out to 65 to 70 yards. With a scope, that is an easy shot.

I hunt deer in the high saddles of the Trinity Alps here in California and most of my shots are less than 100 yards in very wide open country. If I was out there more than a weekend, I would be bumping into deer at much closer range.

Always carry your rifle with you. 

Thanks,

Geoff
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And what if your rifle fails, binds up, or otherwise becomes inoperable due to damage. You can reasonably hunt with a 4 inch revolver in 357.
 
fixer said:
buy it cheap and stack it deep!

while there's some merit to sticking with standard calibers and avoiding the oddball stuff, that only helps out if you find yourself at your hunting destination and discover that you somehow forgot our ammo.

if you're hoping to buy, trade for or scrounge ammo after some SHTF event, you'd better be VERY lucky.

if you reload you can avoid most of this.

i expect that .40 was also in the "gone instantly" category.

an advantage with the more common calibers is that you're more likely to find that stuff in stock and possibly on sale in NORMAL market conditions... which is when you should be stocking, not when there's a sudden rush or other crisis.
Click to expand...

I think you need to be able to reliably replace ammo stocks, and that means that a caliber has to pass the Walmart/BassPro/Cabelas test. Reloading made sense to me until I calculated that I would leave behind compoents and equipment if I had to bug out, and that like bullets, components run out too. I would rather have readymade available ammo and the ability to replace at will than worry if I can find a box of an unavailavle caliber. For instance, during the recent ammo shortages, I could never find 357 in any appreciable amount, but 38+p was plentiful. The flexibility of my GP100 meant I always had ammo for it, even if it wasn't the most effective.
 
Personally I can't see doing this scenario without including .22LR. You could do it as a third gun, as PR suggests. Or if you are set on two then a revolver in .22 and the levergun in a real rifle caliber. There is a reason that 30-30 has stood the test of time so well; it's just way more reliable than a levergun in a pistol caliber.
 
I'll chime in on the Marlin with the Ballard cut rifling, but go with the Ruger Bisley Hunter for the wheel gun...if you stay with the .35 caliber you could up the ballistic coefficient of the bullet with a spitzer rifle bullet but would have to single load it for dedicated long range shooting... don't really want a bunch of pointy nosed bullets in contact with primers in a tubular mag rifle
 
nemoaz said:
The point today would be that a 22 can still bring home venison at bow hunting ranges or even longer.
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i agree - the 22lr is underrated.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

"After shooting the 300 yards and taking back the target to the Jeep, we realized that one round had gone through the whole turkey, the clothing layers in the front AND the layers in the back as well!!!!!!!!!! And this had to occur between 250 yards and 300 yards. This was MUCH MORE than I ever had anticipated for the standard velocity 22LR round!!!!!!!!!!

Not only that but because the clothing was wrapped around and folded/taped in the back, it was the equivalent of shooting through 3 layers of clothing in the front and 6 LAYERS of clothing in the back plus on layer of duct tape!"

have you considering a Colt Lightning?

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/lightning.php

or the Taurus copy? http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_Thunderbolt.htm
 
I have a question for you guys with 38/357 rifles, have any of you taken large game (Deer,Black Bear)with your Rifles. I ask because i've been a reloader for more than 30 years.I remember reading in one of the old reloading rag's about a guy who was loading .357Mag. for a carbine,he was having a problem with the jacketed pistol bullets expanding explosivly when they hit anything solid when they were driven at rifle velocity.IF Memory serves his solution was a cast bullet with a gas check.
What has your experance been .the ballistic's look good on paper but how does it actully perform on game.
 
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Scottman said:
Do you reload right now?

have lots of primers and powder and bullets? cast your own bullets?

do you want the straight wall case just so you can reload it many times??

Why do you want a combo in the same caliber where the rifle doesn't give you lots of range that you might need?

I'm with nemoaz on this one. I don't really know why you would carry a rifle that didn't give you full range. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'm in the woods most of the time. A good 30 cal with downloaded ammo, hammond game getter, or 32 pistol adapters can be used for small game.


Don't expect to find ammo when a crisis starts. All that really matters is that you have a lot of ammo right now. DOn't leave it up to chance.

If you spent 20 dollars a week to buy 500 rounds of 22, at the end of the year you would have 26,000 rounds give or take. That is probably doable by most within a budjet.

-Scott
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I have over 12,000 rounds of .22LR, well over 400 rounds loaded for every large centerfire rifle (that's..... 6 bolt actions, I think, at last count), a few thousand of .38 and .32acp, some .357 and a random 500 odd rounds of calibers I don't even own.

I do reload now. I don't cast bullets, though I've saved up about 15 pounds of lead in sorted alloys so far. I like the idea of being able to load for pistol and rifle in one die, too. I have one set of dies for .38 and .357, for example

In a reloading situation long term, you will most likely NOT BE SOLO. I'm goign to stress this a bit. People who reload know people who reload. I know people with molds I want to try before I invest in casting.

I don't know why I'd carry a .338 lapua. But since that's the record holder for "full range", I guess that's the only one!

Point is, what do you mean by full range? in CA, I planned for nothing past 100 yards and that was fine. In AZ, we worked on a 200 yard hunting range. I shot the 300 yard gong many times, but that wasn't our hunting plan.



reconranger said:
Hard to figure out what you are exactly getting at here. You qualified your choice by saying you already have a big game rifle and shotgun, so that covers all the big stuff, and the bunnies and such.

So all that leaves is self defense and medium size game to cover your bases. For self defense, this is really a "lever action assault rifle" and a revolver to back it up. For game, everything in your list has very limited range, but these are your own self imposed limitations....

Given your self imposed limitations, I would personally go with the .44 and shoot specials in the handgun when not in dangerous game country (don't underestimate the possibility of a free range bovine, deer, or elk that doesn't like you!). There is a new generation of (relatively!) light and/or compact .44 revolvers out there, so don't sell yourself short by ignoring their existance.

I would definitely also throw a .22 rifle in the mix with everything else.
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Okay, here's the reason.

I'm going for a walk through the desert, looking for bones and rocks with my 7 year old son. Before, I was looking at carrying a .38 revolver and, depending on situation, a 12 gauge single shot in the truck or on sling.

Now, I'm carrying a .375, a 12ga, a .22 rifle, a midrange elver gun, and a revolver. William Tango Foxtrot?

I don't consider the .44 as a baseline. I realize that no defensive shots with anything less will ever work, etc etc. We've been through that. And there are bulls here. Neighbor still hasn't fixed his truck from where a bull made the passenger door permanantly inoperable! (that's a fun story. bull versus toyota) And there may be cougars here and there.

But I still don't consider the .44 magnum as a baseline, I think it's the top end of things. I'll likely end up settling on the .44 or the .32 family, for opposite reasons.
 
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