long term 2 gun combos for the Great Basin

MIKE MACINTOSH said:
I have a question for you guys with 38/357 rifles, have any of you taken large game (Deer,Black Bear)with your Rifles. I ask because i've been a reloader for more than 30 years.I remember reading in one of the old reloading rag's about a guy who was loading .357Mag. for a carbine,he was having a problem with the jacketed pistol bullets expanding explosivly when they hit anything solid when they were driven at rifle velocity.IF Memory serves his solution was a cast bullet with a gas check.
What has your experance been .the ballistic's look good on paper but how does it actully perform on game.
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Mike-

you can get keith style bullets, JTCs and JSPs for the .357- I don't shoot hollowpoints at game, so I'm remarkably inexperienced on that subject. My preference is for SWC, keith's, JSPs.
 
Hey Smash05,

That’s a good question.

It is a possibility, that’s why I carry extra firing pins, springs and other parts in the stock of the rifle (it’s well stocked). This is also a short term Bob rifle so having a major problem is reduced.

Long term I would carry a 22LR pistol. I forgot to post that. The 22LR rifle is a bolt action rifle. That’s about as bullet proof as it gets.

Thanks,

Geoff
 
koyote said:
I have over 12,000 rounds of .22LR, well over 400 rounds loaded for every large centerfire rifle (that's..... 6 bolt actions, I think, at last count), a few thousand of .38 and .32acp, some .357 and a random 500 odd rounds of calibers I don't even own.

I do reload now. I don't cast bullets, though I've saved up about 15 pounds of lead in sorted alloys so far. I like the idea of being able to load for pistol and rifle in one die, too. I have one set of dies for .38 and .357, for example

In a reloading situation long term, you will most likely NOT BE SOLO. I'm goign to stress this a bit. People who reload know people who reload. I know people with molds I want to try before I invest in casting.

I don't know why I'd carry a .338 lapua. But since that's the record holder for "full range", I guess that's the only one!

Point is, what do you mean by full range? in CA, I planned for nothing past 100 yards and that was fine. In AZ, we worked on a 200 yard hunting range. I shot the 300 yard gong many times, but that wasn't our hunting plan.


Thanks for verifying that. Umm full range to me means the terrain you are in, can you shoot something that's trying to shoot you or can you nail a buck at that distance. In the woods my range doesn't need to be that great. In more open areas larger. It wouldn't be great to have a weapon with 100 yard range where something is trying to hurt you at 200 etc. In other words, do these combo's offer that to you or do you need to go with something with more range?

I could take a savage 99in 308 (example) have lots or range, fast action, lever action like you want, it looks very PC if you're into that. Shoot all types of bullets. Since you have thousands of 32 acp, you could shoot that out of adapters out of a 308 for small game. 32 acp would not use a lot of powder at all. Full range, powerful, and can take small game if neccessary.

hammond game getter devices http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749471 A 25 pound bag of 00 buck for a thirty cal rifle is 3300 or so projectiles. I have never seen a hardware store run out of ramsets even during this weird "ammo crisis".

Side arm for self defense for what's in your area. I would look at what you feel comfortable with CAST bullets, since this thread is on long term. My grandpas 44 with cast would probably kill stuff pretty well with a low technology bullet-just plain lead. In other words, do you feel confident if all you had to use was cast bullets could they do the job for what you would use it for. Long term- casting your bullets is easily the way to go.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/homedefense.html

Look at Ed Harris's the load if you haven't. Red dot powder etc with cast bullets. Many loads are given small game, 100yard target, 200 yard target. Red dot is not that expensive and you could use it in shotgun loads I believe. multi purpose. Your brass will also last longer if your just shooting 100 yard target loads. Also not use as much powder.


For me it boils down to a 30 cal rifle, a side arm for self defense for threats around your area, and a 22 if I just have to start wandering. I could go with something like a 30-30 or 30-06 etc, have versatility with adapters to shoot various "32" pistol rounds if needed, also low power loads to shoot small game. My sidearm is a glock, and if I had a 22 conversion unit I would have another "fall back" if on foot. Me personally I want something with more pow than a 22 for a SD handgun. like 38/9mm and up.

If you aren't using a 22 long gun as primary, I still believe it's a great thing to have just because of how light and cheap the ammo is. Already suggested was another small 22 handgun. Maybe a 22 cricket rifle-2.5 pounds unmodified.

Me personally I don't really want a 22 handgun in some circumstances. Again just my opinions, but a handgun is for defense and the caliber should be good for that. For me that's 9mm and up in my area.

Something like the 22 cricket can easily be shot by the average person a LOT more accurately than a 22 pistol. 22's kill by precision, and I want a rifle platform to make it easier for me to kill that small animal than a 22 pistol. Also the longer barrel quiets the rounds more.

SHTF I assume foraging/hunting are not my primary things.

BIGGER THREAT: PEOPLE. Why am I bugging out? For me it's going to be because something is really F**ked up and I need to leave, which causes other humans to become more predatory like.

I'd put the sling bow in the pack, maybe have the blowgun along. Great "silent" tools.

Have to think about do I have a destination and does that destination have a resupply of ammo? BOL? How long will it take to get there and how much ammo will I need to get there?

Just me, but I don't really agree with people who take a 22 rifle as a primary to get to there destination. Sure I can carry 1000 rounds easily but do I need 1000 rounds to get there?

If I can get to my destination decently quick and my main threat will be people I myself do NOT want a .22 rifle as primary. I want a fighting class rifle cartridge to get me to where I can hunker down that puts people down more effectively than a 22.

a lightweight 22 rifle like the cricket in the pack would be good for small game for the light weight again under 3 pounds and would allow you to carry some lightweight 22 while keeping your primary for protection. Is not making that shot one a squirrel going to kill you? Or is that man with another projectile weapon going to kill you? Small game can obviously be trapped, shot with the slingbow/blowgun etc or that 22. But to choose a 22 as primary where other humans are running around in predatory mode in normal circumstances is foolish IMHO if you are trying to get some where.


It sounds to me like you will be operating out of a set up location. If I was just going to go off into the wild with no resupply a 22 will for sure be on me. But operating out a set up location you could take your guns with different loads and always come back and reload some more. Also, your son could carry a lightweight broken down 22 if neccessary.

ok enough rambling.
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koyote said:
I have over 12,000 rounds of .22LR, well over 400 rounds loaded for every large centerfire rifle (that's..... 6 bolt actions, I think, at last count), a few thousand of .38 and .32acp, some .357 and a random 500 odd rounds of calibers I don't even own.
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I currently own a 12 gauge shotgun and two Ruger revolvers chambered in 22 and 45 Colt. How many rounds would you consider adequate to stock pile for each gun for a non-reloader such as myself?
 
I like the .41 Mag except that it does not have a .41 Spl counterpart, you'd need to make your own light hand-loads with .41 Mag brass.
 
koyote said:
I don't consider the .44 as a baseline. I realize that no defensive shots with anything less will ever work, etc etc. We've been through that. And there are bulls here. Neighbor still hasn't fixed his truck from where a bull made the passenger door permanantly inoperable! (that's a fun story. bull versus toyota) And there may be cougars here and there.

But I still don't consider the .44 magnum as a baseline, I think it's the top end of things. I'll likely end up settling on the .44 or the .32 family, for opposite reasons.
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The great thing about the .44 is it's versatility, there is alot of variance between the .44 Special and a Max powered handload .44 Magnum. You stated the vast majority of your shots taken would be under 150yds, at that range you'd be best served imo by a big bore of some type. Anything worth its salt would be a flat shooter to that distance.

How about a regular ol' .308 Win and a .45 ACP combo?
 
Scottman said:
Thanks for verifying that. Umm full range to me means the terrain you are in, can you shoot something that's trying to shoot you or can you nail a buck at that distance. In the woods my range doesn't need to be that great. In more open areas larger. It wouldn't be great to have a weapon with 100 yard range where something is trying to hurt you at 200 etc. In other words, do these combo's offer that to you or do you need to go with something with more range?

I could take a savage 99in 308 (example) have lots or range, fast action, lever action like you want, it looks very PC if you're into that. Shoot all types of bullets. Since you have thousands of 32 acp, you could shoot that out of adapters out of a 308 for small game. 32 acp would not use a lot of powder at all. Full range, powerful, and can take small game if neccessary.

hammond game getter devices http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749471 A 25 pound bag of 00 buck for a thirty cal rifle is 3300 or so projectiles. I have never seen a hardware store run out of ramsets even during this weird "ammo crisis".

Side arm for self defense for what's in your area. I would look at what you feel comfortable with CAST bullets, since this thread is on long term. My grandpas 44 with cast would probably kill stuff pretty well with a low technology bullet-just plain lead. In other words, do you feel confident if all you had to use was cast bullets could they do the job for what you would use it for. Long term- casting your bullets is easily the way to go.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/homedefense.html

Look at Ed Harris's the load if you haven't. Red dot powder etc with cast bullets. Many loads are given small game, 100yard target, 200 yard target. Red dot is not that expensive and you could use it in shotgun loads I believe. multi purpose. Your brass will also last longer if your just shooting 100 yard target loads. Also not use as much powder.


For me it boils down to a 30 cal rifle, a side arm for self defense for threats around your area, and a 22 if I just have to start wandering. I could go with something like a 30-30 or 30-06 etc, have versatility with adapters to shoot various "32" pistol rounds if needed, also low power loads to shoot small game. My sidearm is a glock, and if I had a 22 conversion unit I would have another "fall back" if on foot. Me personally I want something with more pow than a 22 for a SD handgun. like 38/9mm and up.

If you aren't using a 22 long gun as primary, I still believe it's a great thing to have just because of how light and cheap the ammo is. Already suggested was another small 22 handgun. Maybe a 22 cricket rifle-2.5 pounds unmodified.

Me personally I don't really want a 22 handgun in some circumstances. Again just my opinions, but a handgun is for defense and the caliber should be good for that. For me that's 9mm and up in my area.

Something like the 22 cricket can easily be shot by the average person a LOT more accurately than a 22 pistol. 22's kill by precision, and I want a rifle platform to make it easier for me to kill that small animal than a 22 pistol. Also the longer barrel quiets the rounds more.

SHTF I assume foraging/hunting are not my primary things.

BIGGER THREAT: PEOPLE. Why am I bugging out? For me it's going to be because something is really F**ked up and I need to leave, which causes other humans to become more predatory like.

I'd put the sling bow in the pack, maybe have the blowgun along. Great "silent" tools.

Have to think about do I have a destination and does that destination have a resupply of ammo? BOL? How long will it take to get there and how much ammo will I need to get there?

Just me, but I don't really agree with people who take a 22 rifle as a primary to get to there destination. Sure I can carry 1000 rounds easily but do I need 1000 rounds to get there?

If I can get to my destination decently quick and my main threat will be people I myself do NOT want a .22 rifle as primary. I want a fighting class rifle cartridge to get me to where I can hunker down that puts people down more effectively than a 22.

a lightweight 22 rifle like the cricket in the pack would be good for small game for the light weight again under 3 pounds and would allow you to carry some lightweight 22 while keeping your primary for protection. Is not making that shot one a squirrel going to kill you? Or is that man with another projectile weapon going to kill you? Small game can obviously be trapped, shot with the slingbow/blowgun etc or that 22. But to choose a 22 as primary where other humans are running around in predatory mode in normal circumstances is foolish IMHO if you are trying to get some where.


It sounds to me like you will be operating out of a set up location. If I was just going to go off into the wild with no resupply a 22 will for sure be on me. But operating out a set up location you could take your guns with different loads and always come back and reload some more. Also, your son could carry a lightweight broken down 22 if neccessary.

ok enough rambling.
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Well, in a broad sense, we are bugged out. and if we need to do more bugging out that this, it's not that far. Really. 1 mile south of me is the last gas station on highway 50 for a couple hundred miles. we're at the end of the line, almost literally. hunting and stock defense are actually bigger deals than close range combat.

Don't have a cricket, but we've got a CtC130 (you've never seen a simpler .22 single bolt gun) for my 7 year old son, a half dozen stevens/marlin/springfield 24 inch bbl bolt/semi autos in .22, a savage 64, and a marlin 60. That's the .22 longarms.

I've got large, long range, centerfire rifles. for desert running I'm comfortable at a 175-200 yard limit.
 
crossada said:
I currently own a 12 gauge shotgun and two Ruger revolvers chambered in 22 and 45 Colt. How many rounds would you consider adequate to stock pile for each gun for a non-reloader such as myself?
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basic loads? This is my personal opinion, so it's... personal.

1000 rounds aguila SSS 60 grain subsonics if your pistol likes them. hard hitting for close range.

10 boxes (5550 rounds) of .22LR federal bulk box. Shoots best out of all the bulk boxes I've tried. several thousand rounds fired and 2... 2 duds.

6 or 7 100 round bulk packs of 7.5 shot. it's good for practice, and hunting.

100 rounds of 00 or 000 bubk

100 slugs, whatever works for you firearm and style. I use bog standard slugs.

.45 colt? ... 400 rounds is my revolver minimum, so go with that. save your brass, you can sell it.

That can even be considered overkill. if you are hunting, that's probably a good 7-8 year supply. But it's enough to go tot he range a lot and not get too far down on your levels. And .22 is trade stock.
 
Zombie Zeke said:
The great thing about the .44 is it's versatility, there is alot of variance between the .44 Special and a Max powered handload .44 Magnum. You stated the vast majority of your shots taken would be under 150yds, at that range you'd be best served imo by a big bore of some type. Anything worth its salt would be a flat shooter to that distance.

How about a regular ol' .308 Win and a .45 ACP combo?
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That's one reason I'm leaning so much towards the .44special blackhawk, with a bulldog .44 special and a 1894 .44 magnum rifle. I'm a fan of heavy slugs, which should be obvious with my digging to find the extra heavy loads on all calibers in the list.

the thing about the .32 family is that- with a .327 federal long gun, you've got good flat shooting out to range (reports aren't in, but I'd expect 200 yard with the .327 in a rifle given the initial MV). Not a lot of power out there, but that depends on what you are shooting that far out. The game options close in are really nice with the smaller .32 cartridges.

I think they are all viable options, and it's a lot of fun to figure out the merits of each, without just getting caught in "biggest you can carry" territory.
 
My levergun shooting is limited to 22 and 30/30 but doesn't Taurus or Rossi have a Model 92 in .454 Casull?
I've seen vids of it on youtube.
Last year I was looking for one for myself but couldn't find a Canadian dealer who sells them.
 
koyote said:
That's one reason I'm leaning so much towards the .44special blackhawk, with a bulldog .44 special and a 1894 .44 magnum rifle. I'm a fan of heavy slugs, which should be obvious with my digging to find the extra heavy loads on all calibers in the list.

the thing about the .32 family is that- with a .327 federal long gun, you've got good flat shooting out to range (reports aren't in, but I'd expect 200 yard with the .327 in a rifle given the initial MV). Not a lot of power out there, but that depends on what you are shooting that far out. The game options close in are really nice with the smaller .32 cartridges.

I think they are all viable options, and it's a lot of fun to figure out the merits of each, without just getting caught in "biggest you can carry" territory.
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I know what you mean, my father swears by the .357 family of SA Ruger Blackhawk Flattop and an old Uberti Revolving rifle, he's really into the feel of the old west too though so thats his consideration.

Hey if your really into the big rounds an SA BFR in 45-70 matches up pretty good with an 1886 Winchester. ;)
 
Zombie Zeke said:
I know what you mean, my father swears by the .357 family of SA Ruger Blackhawk Flattop and an old Uberti Revolving rifle, he's really into the feel of the old west too though so thats his consideration.

Hey if your really into the big rounds an SA BFR in 45-70 matches up pretty good with an 1886 Winchester. ;)
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well, the .44 special blackhawk is on the .357 frame, so i'm really happy. The charter arms .44 special revolvers are fine for concealed carry if I go ahead and do that (I personally prefer open carry because I think it's more socially responsible, but it's a lot easier sometimes to have the CCW for winter time)

The H&R .45-70 buffalo rifle is very high on my list.
 
The Marlin 1894C/SS in 357 is an outstanding rambling and exploring carbine, it is light in the hand and unobtrusive, The same can be said for the 44 mag version as well. However, weight is a factor in the 44 set up when the other "stuff" is added in.

Consider the number of rounds you might carry. Say a box of 50 total? Well a box of 44 magnum 240 grain cartridges weight considerably more than a box of 158 grain 357 Magnum cartridges. Also, 44 magnum revolvers tend to be on heavier framed revolvers and weigh more than do 357 magnum revolvers.

(I know that a Scandium 329 PD in 44 Mag weighs less than an all steel 6 inch barrels GP100)

A combo I enjoy out and about in the untamed places when exploring and small game hunting is a Marlin 1894CSS and 3" Ruger SP101 combo. I feel well armed and can hunt small game up to deer sized critters if I do my part. I carry 38 special RNFP 158 grain bullet loads for targets and small game and 357 Magnum 158 Grain XTPs for self defense and bigger stuff.

My 44 Magnum combo if for when I am actively and expressly hunting deer and bigger. I took this combo on an Alaskan hunt but everyone else shot my bears!:(

I hope this helps.
 
I would get a 22mag lever action rifle and a ruger single action 22 with the long rifle and magnum barrels. If you already have a high powered centerfire rifle and a shotgun, this should cover most every thing else in between
 
If you already have a long range rifle then a .357 Mag, .44 Mag or .45LC combo makes a lot of sense to me. I'd personally go with .357 Magnum combo, partly because I already have it and also because ammo is readably available.
 
high desert said:
You will have more food on your table with a .223 and 12 guage.
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I'll argue the shotgun only insofar as I vastly prefer a 20ga. I shoot 12ga plenty, like to keep my courses up. But 12ga for me has always been military or SD. 20ga is much more enjoyable to hunt with and carry ammo for.

the .223 seems a decent varmint round for around here, but... game hunting?

Just remember, this isn't a "2 guns only" thing. I like shooting enough that I'm likely to plink around with whatever I choose, so I don't want to get too weird in terms of cost.
 
koyote said:
10 boxes (5550 rounds) of .22LR federal bulk box. Shoots best out of all the bulk boxes I've tried. several thousand rounds fired and 2... 2 duds.
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all the .22s i have (including two Hämmerlis (rifle and pistol) and a Kimber SVT) like the Federal bulk pack, and some of them print almost the same size groups with the cheap bulk as the high end Gold Match target loads. close enough that i don't worry about it any more.

now, if i could just find my SGB die. :rolleyes:

it even works well in my AA conversion for the Glocks, which recommends that you not use that load. but it runs just fine after some breakin.
 
fixer said:
all the .22s i have (including two Hämmerlis (rifle and pistol) and a Kimber SVT) like the Federal bulk pack, and some of them print almost the same size groups with the cheap bulk as the high end Gold Match target loads. close enough that i don't worry about it any more.

now, if i could just find my SGB die. :rolleyes:

it even works well in my AA conversion for the Glocks, which recommends that you not use that load. but it runs just fine after some breakin.
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Possibly the most useful thing to come out of my 7 hours of research in this thread!

I've gone through all the bulk packs, remington, winchester, and federal. I should't say in public what the remington did to my normally calm shooting demanor. The winchester is good, but just doesn't do what the federal does.

I get better groups out of the federal bulk than all the cci variants I've tried, too.

The one and only reason I make sure to get to wally world or stop at cabelas is the federal. In a lot of areas, there's somethign inexpensive that does the job better than most of the higher priced options until you get to crazy-prices. (hand sorted and weighs .22 match ammo in individual wrappers and suchlike). That's the federal. I cannit find a .22 that hates it yet.
 
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