-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Looking for critiques and constructive criticism...new member. Made my first knife.
- Thread starter Cf3
- Start date
https://flic.kr/p/2rtA4id
https://flic.kr/p/2rtA4j5
https://flic.kr/p/2rtAaev
https://flic.kr/p/2rtA4hM
Practiced grinding on sum annealed 1095 square stock. I like putting em in vice and going own on em with angle grinder..saves the big belt and chunks it off fast. Drilled one of em out for pins and lanyards and thought this takes too long and drill bits aint cheap so going try hot punching the four with out holes since going heat em up to normalize em anyways.
https://flic.kr/p/2rtA4j5
https://flic.kr/p/2rtAaev
https://flic.kr/p/2rtA4hM
Practiced grinding on sum annealed 1095 square stock. I like putting em in vice and going own on em with angle grinder..saves the big belt and chunks it off fast. Drilled one of em out for pins and lanyards and thought this takes too long and drill bits aint cheap so going try hot punching the four with out holes since going heat em up to normalize em anyways.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 38,148
I'll be honest ... I'm not a fan of your handles If you like them, then it's OK, but they look quite "hot in the hand" to me.
On you latest blade, there is a balance between perfectly straight and too curvy. Adding a little drop to the top and a little curve to the top of the handle will improve the look and feel. The bottom one drawn on the bar is far better looking.
There is a tendency to try and get too much from a bar of steel with new makers. Leave room for adding curves and adjusting things once cut out. It would have been wiser to make two good knives instead of the three you drew.
Look at these knives and see how a little curve and "flow" goes a long way. Notice that the handles are plain and very ergonomic. Try making one shaped more like these next time.
On you latest blade, there is a balance between perfectly straight and too curvy. Adding a little drop to the top and a little curve to the top of the handle will improve the look and feel. The bottom one drawn on the bar is far better looking.
There is a tendency to try and get too much from a bar of steel with new makers. Leave room for adding curves and adjusting things once cut out. It would have been wiser to make two good knives instead of the three you drew.
Look at these knives and see how a little curve and "flow" goes a long way. Notice that the handles are plain and very ergonomic. Try making one shaped more like these next time.
Messed up four of em....got enough material will work these three in the forge more another day but n lull in the wind quit and crops getting pretty yellow so shut her down. Quenched two...had the fat handled curvy handles holes punched and straightened out and looking good then got distracted and melted the blade a bit but tempered it anyways because want to polish and etch em in muriatic acid to learn from my quenches....tried quenching the edge after scraping spine with a a round file and plunged the whole blade in when it got straw yellow. Curious to see how they polish up and etch....learned alot. Glad only used two sheets of 8 sheets of steel...figure the small straight one in pic can rework the tang with grinder and quench it and be easy to save...the other two might just turn into practice pieces to beat on when wind cooperates again and can fire up forge ..was amazed it melted steel so easily....watched an eagle for a moment and boom melted. Learned alot and had a blast.
Thank you very much for your input. I'll defiently have enough material on ones wrecked today to go for a handle more like that with the hammer.
Will try tempering this one and give it a handle.similar to your suggestions
..it cleaned up nice enough with a flap disc on angle grinder. Will make a nice lil pearing knive if turns out...I got way to aggressive today and put all five knives in the fire at once with two rail road spikes used to heat the brine...man that was awesome..not conducive to the blades turning out but as far as playing with fire and steel and a hammer...yes thank you again for suggestions. Thinking since spend alot of times in woods and know where some cool logs are that are spalted out...going look into getting a vaccum system so cs. Stabilize em. Got a chain saw, a portable chainsaw mill system designed and a table saw and jigsaw so last thing would need would be a vaccum system and some cactus juice.
DeadPineKnives
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2024
- Messages
- 164
Looks like you're off to a good start with knife making! I'm no expert but I'm happy to help however I can! Not sure if you've used the West Systems G-flex yet, but while the cost of admission is high compared to a tube of hardware store epoxy, you get a lot more of it and it lasts a lot longer in storage!
It should be delivered soon. Ordered that epoxy and 8 pack of steel n sum wolf jaw tongues so can experiment.
Didn't turn out how planned but it turned into a perfect lil knife for dead heading flowers and trimming roses and picking tomatoes etc...will def replace knife been using for that. It shaves leg n arm hairs off the belt. Happy as hell with that salt brine...it was awesome putting hot rail road spikes in n watching the temp rise to about 135 I'd guess...the meat thermometer stops reading at 140 and I just eyeballed it below it....going wait till morning now so fresh cause been tinkering so woke up. Greatly appreciate the tips. Thanks again for time patience and understanding.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 38,148
I will give you the best piece of advice you can get from an old timer who has made thousands of blades, many of them by forging and hardening in a forge.
You can take this advice or not, that is your choice. But, I will tell you that your learning curve will be much smoother and shorter if you do.
Make ONE knife at a time!
When you are new and untrained, you don't know what you don't know. This leads to making errors in judgment on the heat, forging errors, and design errors. Repeating these several times makes you think you learned something, but what you have actually done is made an error part of your methods. By making one knife at a time, you learn to pay attention to the details, and each knife improves from the last. Lastly, Don't rush things. In the excitement of starting to make knives the urge to crank them out as fast as you can is hard to resist, but you should take your time on each and every knife. A rushed knife almost always has many issues when done.
With your setup and methods, my suggestion for you is to use the following procedure for at least the next 10-20 knives:
1) Read up on heat treatment. Get a copy of Dr. Larrin Thomas' book "Knife Engineering." Read it cover to cover.
If the book is unaffordable for you, send me an email or message, and I will have one sent to you.
2) Draw the knife on paper. Cut the profile out in cardboard or scrap thin wood and see how it looks and feels.
3) Cut out that knife shape from your bar of steel (only one blank).
4) Forge it to the shape you picked. Use your cardboard/wood template and drawing to try and keep to the desired shape. When done forging and punching holes (drilling is a far better method), anneal the knife blade. Your setup isn't really good for annealing. Try the method I put at the bottom of this page.
5) Grind in the final profile and bevels, leaving plenty to grind off after HT.
6) Do the HT on a dark day or late in the evening... or at night. You will get a better feel for the color that way.
7) Temper in a kitchen oven or an old toaster oven." Color tempering" is a poor method of tempering knives. (and I have no idea what scraping the edge with a round file has to do with it ???)
8) Finish grinding the blade and take a good look at it when done. Is it like the drawing? Does it look and feel good in your hand (be honest with yourself). If you are happy with it, put the handle on. If not, either modify the shape by grinding a better curve or removing an unnecessary bump. If the shape is such that you don't really like it, set it aside and start the next knife. Many knives from now you might come back and make changes that will work.
9) If all is good with the shape, put on the handle.
10) Sharpen and test the knife by cutting things with it ... rope, cardboard, whittling on a sticks ... then try and cut some paper or a tomato. Did the edge hold up? If so, the HT was good. If it got dull fast, the HT and possibly the forging was not done well.
11) Take what you learned from this knife and start the next one.
Annealing and HT with only a simple forge:
When all you have is a simple and uncontrolled forge, annealing and HT is a problem. There is no way to "soak at 1650° for 30 minutes, etc." or similar processes. The best you can do is try and undo the internal damage to the structures in the steel that formed in forging by cycling and harden it as best you can. This is best done on a dark cloudy day , at dusk, or at night with the lights off. I prefer at night with only enough light around to work safely.
A) Heat the blade to red and let cool in the air to black heat (when the blade is completely black, which is around 800-900°F).
B) Heat again to a little less red and cool to black.
C) Heat until you can barely see a dull red glow and cool to back.
D) Heat until the magnet just stops sticking and immediately quench the entire blade in 120-130°F quenchant. An oil quenchant would be best by far, but if all you can get is brine, use it. Brine will have more blades crack and break, but hardens well.
E) Temper as soon as possible in a kitchen oven at 400°F.
Final comment:
If you are forging a knife, there is no need to cut out a detailed blank. A roughly rectangular blank with a bit of a taper toward the point is all you need. Hammering the hot steel is how you will shape the blade. Forge until it is close to what you want and grind/file/sand in the details. Practicing on scarp metal lying around, or cheap welding metal bars is a good way to learn hammer skills and forge heat control. Most folks try to forge at red, which is too cool. Red is lower than forging temp. The other error is running the forge too hot and burning the steel. The whole blade blank is likely ruined if any of it gets burned/melted.
You can take this advice or not, that is your choice. But, I will tell you that your learning curve will be much smoother and shorter if you do.
Make ONE knife at a time!
When you are new and untrained, you don't know what you don't know. This leads to making errors in judgment on the heat, forging errors, and design errors. Repeating these several times makes you think you learned something, but what you have actually done is made an error part of your methods. By making one knife at a time, you learn to pay attention to the details, and each knife improves from the last. Lastly, Don't rush things. In the excitement of starting to make knives the urge to crank them out as fast as you can is hard to resist, but you should take your time on each and every knife. A rushed knife almost always has many issues when done.
With your setup and methods, my suggestion for you is to use the following procedure for at least the next 10-20 knives:
1) Read up on heat treatment. Get a copy of Dr. Larrin Thomas' book "Knife Engineering." Read it cover to cover.
If the book is unaffordable for you, send me an email or message, and I will have one sent to you.
2) Draw the knife on paper. Cut the profile out in cardboard or scrap thin wood and see how it looks and feels.
3) Cut out that knife shape from your bar of steel (only one blank).
4) Forge it to the shape you picked. Use your cardboard/wood template and drawing to try and keep to the desired shape. When done forging and punching holes (drilling is a far better method), anneal the knife blade. Your setup isn't really good for annealing. Try the method I put at the bottom of this page.
5) Grind in the final profile and bevels, leaving plenty to grind off after HT.
6) Do the HT on a dark day or late in the evening... or at night. You will get a better feel for the color that way.
7) Temper in a kitchen oven or an old toaster oven." Color tempering" is a poor method of tempering knives. (and I have no idea what scraping the edge with a round file has to do with it ???)
8) Finish grinding the blade and take a good look at it when done. Is it like the drawing? Does it look and feel good in your hand (be honest with yourself). If you are happy with it, put the handle on. If not, either modify the shape by grinding a better curve or removing an unnecessary bump. If the shape is such that you don't really like it, set it aside and start the next knife. Many knives from now you might come back and make changes that will work.
9) If all is good with the shape, put on the handle.
10) Sharpen and test the knife by cutting things with it ... rope, cardboard, whittling on a sticks ... then try and cut some paper or a tomato. Did the edge hold up? If so, the HT was good. If it got dull fast, the HT and possibly the forging was not done well.
11) Take what you learned from this knife and start the next one.
Annealing and HT with only a simple forge:
When all you have is a simple and uncontrolled forge, annealing and HT is a problem. There is no way to "soak at 1650° for 30 minutes, etc." or similar processes. The best you can do is try and undo the internal damage to the structures in the steel that formed in forging by cycling and harden it as best you can. This is best done on a dark cloudy day , at dusk, or at night with the lights off. I prefer at night with only enough light around to work safely.
A) Heat the blade to red and let cool in the air to black heat (when the blade is completely black, which is around 800-900°F).
B) Heat again to a little less red and cool to black.
C) Heat until you can barely see a dull red glow and cool to back.
D) Heat until the magnet just stops sticking and immediately quench the entire blade in 120-130°F quenchant. An oil quenchant would be best by far, but if all you can get is brine, use it. Brine will have more blades crack and break, but hardens well.
E) Temper as soon as possible in a kitchen oven at 400°F.
Final comment:
If you are forging a knife, there is no need to cut out a detailed blank. A roughly rectangular blank with a bit of a taper toward the point is all you need. Hammering the hot steel is how you will shape the blade. Forge until it is close to what you want and grind/file/sand in the details. Practicing on scarp metal lying around, or cheap welding metal bars is a good way to learn hammer skills and forge heat control. Most folks try to forge at red, which is too cool. Red is lower than forging temp. The other error is running the forge too hot and burning the steel. The whole blade blank is likely ruined if any of it gets burned/melted.
Sir I appreciate you beyond words.
Fairbertcarl@gmail.com that's my email. Please send an email
Woke up and wind was surprisingly calm and they changed the charts...Ive been shading em with a board on top and standing to cast my shadow on em. Dusk n night would be better. Have a dim light on shop that would give enough ambient light to be pretty good for new moon phases and cloudy nights. Pracitced grinding for sake ofnpracticing grinding and trying get a few blares ready for scales before crops hit critically dry till hold off on fire till harvest...staying middle of a bean field...if was corn would have already pulled plug till harvest. Study the wind charts from nearest weather station and pressure wash work area soon as done and built a drainage system to mitigate contamination of run off. I used to work with antique gold and knew it may have had possibilty of bwing refined with arsenic and mercury so made a hood and a sysytem with portland cement to collect any possible containments via ionic charge. I try to think of right way do things and most absolutely am going listen to those with more experience. Thanks again for all those who take time to sort threw what i post...trying to give visuals so can easily correct my errors. I cant see what i dont knew. Memory problems from concussions so also like gaving way to review and anaylze and redfine processes. Cant anaylyze objective date withput data collection.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 38,148
I'm traveling today. When I get a chance I'll shoot you an email. When I get back in 2 weeks I'll pack a box for you. (I have other folks I need to ship boxes to as well.)
Tested till failure. Threw it threw sheet metal (piece of dryer use as lid while coals cool down) and against concrete both flat and round pieces from pulled out posts and rocks to see how tip and edge held up after sharpening and when started testing spine. Had to full spin throw against edge of shovel at downward angle and impact spine an inch back from the tip with tang rotating forward to get to sheer. When quenched felt like got tip too cool too fast cause rocked it a lil too far forward. Going try to make same knife and adjust motion of quench to correct it. Wanted the spine to stay flexible but rocking forward on intial agitation movement caused it to harden from fail point to tip edge to spine. Could see the cloudy spot when acid bathed it as well.