Looking for Fairbanks hammer operating manual...

It looks like a gib puller won't work. It appears that, by design, the end of the key, the shaft and the flywheel are completely flush. There is nothing to grab onto. I think I may need to remove the flywheel and the shaft as a unit pulling them out the front.
 
If you are meaning you are intending to pull "all" including key, I'm pretty sure that won't work... will make key tighter.

I don't know if Bruce "birdog4" had his shaft out or not. I'll holler at him and point him this way.

Mike
 
I looked mine over pretty good and come to the conclusion.... I don't know (BOG)
It looks like it would pull from the front with all the lock bolts loosened and flywheel removed.
Mike , what makes you think that is a lock key?
Robert, have you talked to Sid?
There is so much paint on mine, it's hard to see much.
 
I was assuming there would be a locking key because mine has one.

I mentioned there is a spacer inbetween the yokes on mine. They are bolted to the shaft and turn with it. I figured a center drive pulley would be hard and fast and act as the spacer does on mine. Maybe it's not a spacer at all. Might simply be a shaft cover.

Does the back end of your shaft just end? Seems like there ought to be something in there besides the fact the pitman is bolted to the drive wheel and also is attached to the hammer but maybe all that connecting to the hammer in it's guides is what keeps it together... ??? Naw... can't be, can it?

Mike
 
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Farmer,

Was just yapping with Bruce via e-mail and am wondering if there are set screws holding the key and drive pulley in place that you access through the bottom of the sheave, just like most pulleys? Duh... probably, huh...

You probably figured it out, but the catalog I've got shows the "crank disc and shaft" are one piece.

One other thing. The motor shaft center on our "motor driven" Fairbanks is up in the air aways... like 18-20" or better. If you mount your motor on the floor, you will have the distance from drive pulley difference x's 2 in extra belting. There is not a lot of leaway in idler travel to tension the belt. The belt will stretch both permanently and through tensioning. That is, the industry replacement for leather belting is "transmission belting"... a multiple ply rubberized canvas. It will stretch 4% to 5% from made-length. It can be shortened to made-length again but the material will still stretch, then return, a percentage of it's length through the tensioning and de-tensioning during use. Anyhow, you really don't want any more belt length than necessary.

Mike
 
Hi Guys. Just back from a long day with the hammer. There are 4 set screws on the drive pulley. Unfortunately, one of mine was broken off flush with the pulley. I drilled it and used an easy out to get the screw out. The other 3 came out easily. I loosened the two set screws that go into the hammer frame, which I assume hold the bushings in place. I don't think they need to be removed or even loosened, but I loosened them anyway. At that point, I started applying persuasion to the end of the shaft in the back. That end sticks out an inch or so. It is hard going. I moved the shaft about 1.5 inches, so it is now inside the back of the frame about half an inch. I assume that it will be hard to move until I get it past where the drive pulley used to ride on it (about 5 inches). The biggest problem is holding something to be used as a punch and hitting it with a hammer large enough to get some movement (10 pound sledge).
At this point I am questioning the wisdom in this, but it needs to be done, and I will get it done.
Bruce, I have not spoken to Sid, but I will call him tomorrow. I keep forgetting, and I keep hoping Wallace will answer a phone message or an email, which has not happened yet.
 
Farmer,

Sounds like fun... =] Have you any way of keeping the shaft centered in the front bushing when the shaft end clears the rear bushing? Maybe it's irrelavent but seems like at sometime, the drive disc and shaft are going to want to bind... and I suppose there is no way to pull instead of push, is there.

Mike

The odds of Bruce Wallace returning your calls or answering your e-mails is about the odds of waking up in the morning and finding the "hammer fairy" has rebuilt your machine while you slept. If you absolutely have to talk with him, keep calling until you get him live. Might be, figuring when he gets to work and calling then will increase your odds.
 
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Mike, Hammer Fairy, huh? What do I need to leave under my pillow?

The only thing to pull on would be the flywheel, and I am not sure what I could pull with that would not just tip the machine. I actually am giving some thought to a porta power with spreading jaws between the flywheel and the front yoke. I have an inch or so of space in there now. That would be the same as pulling, but everything else would stay in place. I am not sure if the key in the shaft and flywheel would stay in place either. Hydraulics sure sounds nice right now though.

I need new pins for the links and arms, new bushings for this main shaft and some other stuff that Wallace could supply, so I will keep trying to reach him. Telephone calls seem only way. If not, I will go to a machine shop.
 
Square nails for that hammer fairy (BOG)

If you go with the porta-power/dfuckbill , I'd use 2 if possible to even out the pressure.
Or try applying the pressure then inserting a hardwood wedge before moving to the other side of the wheel. That's an awful lot of pressure and it won't take much to cock that shaft.
All the places where you removed lock bolts, give a good dose of penetrating fluid.
You figger there is a bronze bushing for the mainshaft?
 
I hope you guys don't mind me adding this hear. I told Mike that I would get pictures of my clutch set up for comparison and don't feel it needs a whole new thread just for that.

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I'll try to get better pictures of the belt for you Mike.
 
Usually, in instances like this, the Fairies Guild requires large sums of money... a parcel of blood, sweat, and tears may or may not be helpful... depends on the Hammer Fairy's mood.

Two things:

1) Telling Bruce Wallace via e-mail and phone, short and sweet, you would like to put money in his pocket, is your best chance of getting a response. The difference between Sid and Bruce is, Bruce is trying to run a business, Sid is on a mission.

2) Dealing with pins and pin holes is problematic. Fairbanks pins are hard (harder than the arm material) and they are captured. Over time, Sid and Keri have evolved into using soft pins and not capturing them. The short story is the pin revolves (wears more evenly) and bushed arms (a pain to get done, especially on the upper arms) tend to stay same size and round. Sid has a longer story on this.

If I had to guess, your arm holes are egg shaped and your pins are flatter on one side. How "out" are they? It may be John Wallace is jigged-up to deal with it. It maybe Sid and Keri are jigged up to deal with it, too... not Fairbanks, but Little Giant, and it may be transferable. It is ALWAYS worth running hammer realities by Sid. If you can get him numbers, he will tell you where in relative hammer reality you are. Sid and Keri may not be willing to work on your hammer parts, though. In the end, if all you need is replacement pins, the hole and pin dimensions at the pin head and cotter will be as-made (non rotating pins won't wear there). Anyone with a lathe and and simple knowledge of running it can make you new pins. The dimensions need to be right. 1018, 1020, (4140 "pre-hardend", if you "have" to have hard pins)... but you should talk to Keri and Sid.

As Bruce asked, there are, for sure, bushings at the front and rear yoke, but I don't know what they are made of... brass/bronze probably, but they don't have to be. Did you find out how "out" the shaft is? It should be most of the wear is in the bushings and that is a simple fix for a good machinist. It would be helpful to know the original bushing/shaft dimension and spec tolerance but it is not essential. You might be able to get that from Bruce Wallace... there may be other places for the information. Hopefully the bushings have never turned for any length of time... having to bush the yokes back to round would be ugly.

You may be able to pull the drive disc/shaft with threaded rod. You may be able to push it out with threaded rod. Either way, you have to be able to support the disc drive or near/shaft as it comes.

Got to go...

Mike

PS ~ Yeah, I know, I sound like "an expert" (god save me from f'ing experts!). I'm in a hurry and I've still got lumps all over my head from beating it against our hammer. Over time (a long time) working on our hammer, little by little I learned by being taught, there are things that are real and things that are not. Anything I can do to help you avoid the "are nots", I will do.

Mike
 
Hi guys. The suggestion of 2 porta powers to even the force is a good one. Last night, I also started thinking of a way to get a hydraulic jack on the end of the shaft. Would have to use it sideways and hold it up there somehow and make something to jack against. That would probably be easiest on the hammer.
Mike, yeah, my side arms and links are egg-shaped at the pin holes and the pins are very badly flattened and need replaced. The top holes of the side arms already had been oversized with bushings once and are worn out again. I will ask Sid about pins that rotate and whether that idea is same if bushings are installed and his opinion on set screws to lock the bushings. These bushings were drilled for oil holes, but they rotated and blocked the holes and/or they were just never oiled and everything died from friction.
The main shaft bushings had enough play that I was able to lift the flywheel/crank and shaft noticeably. I imagine the front and rear crank shaft bushings are bronze, and when I get the shaft out, I will detail the adventure for everyone.
Steve, more pictures of the back of your hammer would be helpful, especially the top shaft and drive pulley setup. The pictures of your motor mount gave me good information, since I may change to that factory-type back mount.
 
First, actually some useful information. The shaft on a 75# Fairbanks is larger in the front than in the back. The shaft is nearly 1.75" in the front and less than 1.5" in the back. Therefore, the shaft can only come out the front. I am not sure where the larger width happens, since I still do not have the shaft out of the hammer.

I got a porta power today with hopes of getting the spreader attachment in between the flywheel/crank and the front yoke. I put some pressure on it, but nothing moved. I hit the shaft with a large punch with the pressure on, and nothing moved. I was afraid to put more pressure on it. I did not get two porta powers, because I became concerned that I might break the key holding the flywheel/crank to the shaft.

The shaft has frozen in the hammer now. I took a 1" punch and put it through a groove in the flywheel/crank that is used to hold the Pitman. I then put a large piece of pipe on that punch and was able to turn the shaft. However, it is still really hard to make it move out at all.

I was just looking in Freund's book and on page 287, you can indeed see in the drawing that the shaft steps down toward the back. It is partially obstructed by the brake mechanism, and I never noticed it before. I assume this is the same on every size of the hammers.

I was able to talk to Wallace today by phone. He told me that if I measured my pins and sent him an email with the measurements, he would check and see if they have any in a box. He said that all of the spare parts for the smaller hammers are used up and not available, but he may have the pins. He offered to look at the drawings and tell me which way the shaft comes out, but he did not send me an email today. He thought the shaft comes out the back, and he believed it could only go one way. I asked if he would tell me the main shaft bushing size, but he said that was proprietary information and that my shaft may not take that standard size anymore in any case.

I also called Sid. What an informative conversation. He told me everything he knew and volunteered to tell me if my arms and links can be rebuilt. I sent him an email with pictures of them. I just can't stress enough how nice of a fellow he is. He told me that the spring on the Fairbanks is the same spring used on the Little Giants. We talked about the shaft, and he believes that the flywheel/crank and shaft come out together and out the front, but he hasn't worked on many Fairbanks hammers.

Tomorrow, I am going to see if I can rent a porta power or other extraction type piece of equipment with an attachment that allows me to grab onto the hammer while pushing out the shaft - sort of like a hydraulic wheel puller.
 
Farmer,

Sorry, I'm going to act smart... and it isn't like me. So, what's going to catch the drive disc/shaft when it comes popping out the front?

Like I said, Sid and Keri are on a mission. They are both sweet, helpful people. I would never have gotten where I've gotten with our hammer without them.
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How were the arm bushings put in? If there is an easy-ish way to get them out, rebushing is going to be easy. It may also be possible to just ream the arm bushings to mostly round, then build oversize pins. I assume there are still oiling holes through the bushings with a groove inside to spread it?

In theory, the shaft still being in the bushings is keeping everything aligned so the shaft should move. Theory being what it is, the amount the shaft moved initially probably put it in a bind... it's up in the back and down in the front, and/or hung on the key, and/or??? Ideally, pressure from the power unit needs to be equal on the shaft x,y axis. Have you tried moving the drive disc/shaft back to the original position?

Did you get what I meant about using threaded rods to push or pull the disc drive/shaft out?

Mike
 
Holy smokes, Dan! Nice pictures! Thanks for doing that.

I'm just amazed at the cobble job on the linkage. The tightener pulley arm is upside down and the belt would normally be on the other side of the idler pulley. The mechanics of tightening the belt the opposite way and getting the brake to release as the motor picks the hammer up is amazing. I'm assuming it came that way?

I'd appreciate more help with the belt, if you can.

In a lot of ways, all the other Fairbanks threads ought to get linked into this one... right now this thread by itself is the biggest body of knowledge on the net for Fairbanks.

Mike
 
Great pictures Dan!!
I'm with the Bear school of thought.... run it!! :-)
Robert, I hope you are documenting this procedure as it goes along. I'm sure one of us is going to need this info at some time or other. Thanks guys!
Also, best place to find porta-power duckbills is in a bodyshop. Got a buddy with one?
Sid is a gem!!!
 
Good evening folks. Well another day at the hammer.

First, more useful information. I was trying to clean out the oiler holes on the ram/plunger. They were really plugged. I discovered that the holes on each side of the center guide on the ram are connected to each other. In other words, you can shove a piece of wire across from one hole and out the other to clean them out. The same is true for the other set of holes in the back of the ram. A piece of wire and then some compressed air down through the top and side to side finishes the job nicely. Watch your eyes though, because alot of stuff can come flying out (that shouldn't be there). If they are cleaned properly, a great deal of air will come out.

I agree this thread is the most information on the web for our hammers. I have decided to document my rebuild by pictures and on this thread. I need to figure out how to make my pictures lower resolution to load some. If anyone has a picture they would like to see, just let me know.

My links and side arms are pretty worn. Some of them probably can't survive another oversized reaming. Sid tells me that the preferred fix is to totally weld the holes shut, bore new holes and use new pins. Makes perfect sense to me. The issue will be cost. I am awaiting his estimate. The problem with bushings is that they can rotate and close off the oil holes. Then the pins will deteriorate from friction, eat up the bushing and the arm will get badly worn.

I decided to give the porta power another try to remove the main shaft but with a different setup. This is the most effective means of removing the shaft I have found yet. My porta power is a 4 ton unit with some of the ends and the extensions just smaller than the hammer main shaft. One of the welders in the shop next door brought a fork lift over and we positioned the hammer by a heavy support pole in my shop. I lined the porta power up carefully with the pole in order to have a straight shot into the rear main shaft housing. I chained the hammer to the pole top and bottom. I then applied some pressure in the shaft housing with the porta power using a v-shaped base on the porta power so it wouldn't slip on the pole. The main shaft was about an inch inside the housing. The hammer started to tip slightly from the top, but the chain stopped it when the chain got tight. (My hammer is bolted on a pallet which gives me more stability.) I then put a 1" round bar in the slot in front of the crank/flywheel and a piece of pipe over that bar and began to turn the crank/flywheel back and forth some. The turning freed the shaft enough to allow the porta power to push it out a little at a time. The shaft would move about 1/8" and I would pump the porta power a little more (1/2-3/4 stroke) and turn the shaft some more. I did this over and over. The shaft is now out about 4.5 inches out in the front behind the crank/flywheel.

I have secured the flywheel to keep it from falling by removing the set screw in the face of it and passing wire through it many times to make a loop and then chaining that loop to a beam in the ceiling (cable would be better to use and I may do that). Luckily, that set screw goes all the way through the flywheel. The drive pulley is secured by a combination of chain and duct tape!!!!!!!, since there is no hole through it. I will be watching carefully when the shaft allows the drive pulley to come out. The drive pulley has already come free from the main shaft. Apparently, it is on the wide part of the main shaft, and the amount I have moved the shaft is enough that the drive pulley is now resting on the smaller rear portion of the main shaft.

I have a question for you guys. Why don't we grease these machines rather than oil them? Tapping for grease fittings seems a small price to pay to actually lubricate the machine.

That is enough for tonight.
 
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