Loveless 35th Anniversary Knife - My version.

Steven,
I can see where you're coming from with that observation.

I guess it's better in the long run to have your errors pointed out to you than have 'smoke blown up your arse' as we say over here.:D

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.:thumbup:

By the way, do you have any comments you'd care to share about this one?

Go on, you know you want to....let me have it with both barrels!:D

Ian (sucker for punishment)
 
when I give praise, it is sincere and the furthest thing from blowing smoke up someone's arse, Ian.

I believe that praise has intrinsic value, and I suppose that in many ways my view is diametrically opposed to one which focuses on shortcomings and perceived inadequacies.

This is different than if a maker posts asking for critique, which often requires both praise and critical analysis in order to be effective. In Marcus Lin's case, it was a buyer who posted a photo of his new Lin knife, which elicited the statements that some, particularly Mr. Lin, found to be objectionable, and which may have had a direct impact on Mr. Lin's business as he stated. I think it would have been a far different outcome now, if Mr. Lin had been the one to post the knife, and had asked for feedback. But I digress...

I feel that encouragement is important, and when I see a knife posted that looks as if it's an achievement or an important step toward the personal development of a maker, that's when I will give props. If directly asked to provide critical feedback, I will jump at the chance, provided I feel I have any contribution that I can make. Critical feedback is rarely asked for, and it is a real pleasure to see when it is asked for. Such as you have just done, Ian.

There really isn't tons of Fanboyism in this forum, despite the opinion sometimes expressed by some who walk a more cynical path. There is a lot of support though, support which is often essential in buoying the attitude of one who's chosen a very difficult craft as their career, especially when the maker is experiencing frustration and other difficulties and just wants a warm handshake from his or her homies.

Just because there are many people in this forum who like to give their bros a pat on the back, doesn't diminish this place in my view but elevates it and all those who participate. There is love here, and that is a great thing!

I'm sorry to add to further derailment here. Just had to say my piece:).
 
1. "A greatly reduced price" is relative. Most of the knives in this style START at $600.00+.....not exactly cheap.

2. Many makers work in a style that is as much aesthetic as it is functional. The Loveless knives were designed around features, and how to incorporate them. These features(considering the stainless steel chosen for material) included strength, lightness, sharpness, edge retention, rust resistance and ergonomics. Each factor ignored or not taken into consideration or incorrectly executed takes away from to whole piece.....paraphrasing here, but that was pretty much how Bob put it when I talked with him in 2005.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Last time I checked that is about 12% of what a Loveless drop point hunter goes for and maybe 20% at best of what one made in the "correct" fashion by one of Bob's former collaborators goes for. Not exactly cheap, but not even close to what a "perfect" copy goes for. Now if I am asking $2000 or more for the piece, then it had better be spot on, but at $200-600, a very good to damn fine knife should suffice.
 
By the way, do you have any comments you'd care to share about this one?

Go on, you know you want to....let me have it with both barrels!:D

Ian (sucker for punishment)

No, Ian, I'll leave that to Lorien...after all...he knows SO MUCH about Loveless knives, SO MUCH about knives.....and has SO MUCH love, that is all we need, right?

Who needs to get better, try harder, continue working and learning when we can "love"...?:rolleyes:

Screw it, I'm done critiquing, everyone makes fabulous knives and has no room for growth...you are all wonderful and should sell many knives.:thumbup:

Who wants a hug?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Last time I checked that is about 12% of what a Loveless drop point hunter goes for and maybe 20% at best of what one made in the "correct" fashion by one of Bob's former collaborators goes for. Not exactly cheap, but not even close to what a "perfect" copy goes for. Now if I am asking $2000 or more for the piece, then it had better be spot on, but at $200-600, a very good to damn fine knife should suffice.

So buy what you like, and leave me out of it...if you make money, great, if you get stuck with a boat anchor, oh well, sucks to be you.

There are a WHOLE lot of Loveless collectors who also appreciate the work of other makers....they don't post here often, if at all, because it just isn't worth it to them, so you lucky SOB's have....me.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Lorien, I agree with that 100%.

I never post knives on here looking for everybody to say "Wow, that's great", because I know what I do isn't anything special compared to most of the knives shown on here. This forum has some seriously high calibre makers showing their work, and for me to think I'm anywhere near their league would be ridiculous. I expect criticism and at the same time hope for praise!

Of all the internet knife forums, this is the place where I find the 'realest' comments. I think forums in the UK are much more reserved about dishing out criticism. I guess it's an English thing.:D

When criticism comes, it can give the confidence a knock, but I would guess that in most cases it gives people a certain attitude of "I'll ****ing show him/them"!

I think you kind of get a feel as to who genuinely likes your work. I personally tend to comment only on knives that I REALLY like. That doesn't mean I don't like a lot of what I see on here because I do. It's just that certain styles of knife 'float my boat' more than others.

I think in future when I post knives on here I'm going to ask specifically for comments both good and bad. It could prove interesting....;)

By the way, don't apologise for thread derailment, talking knives is what we're here for!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.:thumbup: (and liking my knife;))

Ian
 
No, Ian, I'll leave that to Lorien...after all...he knows SO MUCH about Loveless knives, SO MUCH about knives.....and has SO MUCH love, that is all we need, right?

Who needs to get better, try harder, continue working and learning when we can "love"...?:rolleyes:

Screw it, I'm done critiquing, everyone makes fabulous knives and has no room for growth...you are all wonderful and should sell many knives.:thumbup:

Who wants a hug?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Steven,

I'm genuinely disappointed.:(

I've got another couple in the shop part way finished, maybe you'll have your critical head back on by the time I post them....

I hope so, this whole 'love' thing just isn't you is it?:D

Hope you feel better soon.;)

Ian
 
I hope so, this whole 'love' thing just isn't you is it?:D

Hope you feel better soon.;)

Ian

No, man, cynical or not, my whole goal is to try and help makers improve their work, and collectors improve their eye, and feelings be damned....I'm not a woman and don't act like one....the last time I asked a friend about his "feelings" it was a discussion about female breast size.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
No, man, cynical or not, my whole goal is to try and help makers improve their work, and collectors improve their eye, and feelings be damned....I'm not a woman and don't act like one....the last time I asked a friend about his "feelings" it was a discussion about female breast size.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
So do you prefer the "big bear" size or the "bird and trout" ones?:D
 
So buy what you like, and leave me out of it...if you make money, great, if you get stuck with a boat anchor, oh well, sucks to be you.

There are a WHOLE lot of Loveless collectors who also appreciate the work of other makers....they don't post here often, if at all, because it just isn't worth it to them, so you lucky SOB's have....me.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
I'm not trying to mess wif ya, man. I am seriously curious as to the reason that folks making a Loveless inspired knife are held to such exacting standards by many folks? I haven't handled a whole lot of Moran knives or ones made by other folks in his style, but I have owned a few and seen a few more and as far as I could tell, I have never handled any knife that had the same grind and edge geometry that the late Moran knife that I use to own had. Yet, I don't ever recall anyone commenting on the fact that these other Moran inspired knives just aren't quite there. I have, however, heard that a number of times regarding the Loveless style hollow grind.
 
I'm not trying to mess wif ya, man. I am seriously curious as to the reason that folks making a Loveless inspired knife are held to such exacting standards by many folks? I haven't handled a whole lot of Moran knives or ones made by other folks in his style, but I have owned a few and seen a few more and as far as I could tell, I have never handled any knife that had the same grind and edge geometry that the late Moran knife that I use to own had. Yet, I don't ever recall anyone commenting on the fact that these other Moran inspired knives just aren't quite there. I have, however, heard that a number of times regarding the Loveless style hollow grind.

For both Moran and Loveless the beauty of the thing is in the "feel", but how they both get their "feel" is different.

Mike Lovett, who has not posted in a dog's age, spelled out the unique qualities of a Loveless knife in a post a number of years ago, run on sentences and lack of paragraph breaks included.

The grind IS the knife on a Loveless, everything about it, from that center ridge that I have spoken about on the double edged pieces to the deep hollow grind on ALL the knives. Loveless knives remove just about everything that doesn't add something to the qualities of the knife.

People who know Loveless knives are looking for those "intangibles" that are just about impossible to explain, unless you are a true expert, and I am not.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
No, man, cynical or not, my whole goal is to try and help makers improve their work, and collectors improve their eye, and feelings be damned....I'm not a woman and don't act like one....the last time I asked a friend about his "feelings" it was a discussion about female breast size.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Well, what can I say- I guess there is more than one way to skin a cat. Your way and mine are probably about as different as night and day. This is good. It takes all kinds.

As for female breast size, I agree that females have the best breasts.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume that you were being sarcastic about how MUCH I know, about knives, and Loveless in particular. My response to that is, well, I don't really have one. I don't think I ever inferred that I know SO MUCH about anything, other than how I approach this forum and posts made by makers about their work. Never once have I stated that I know anything about Loveless knives. Despite your stating any time that the topic comes up, that you are not an expert, you certainly act like one.

Do you think that if I said what you said about Marcus Lin's work, that he'd lose sales? Do you think he'd care, or anyone else? You surely must realize that many in this forum put you on a pedestal when it comes to your knowledge of custom knives and Loveless in particular?

I don't have a beef with you Steven. Just trying to keep the air clear.
 
I never meant to detract from the original post, but I just thought I'd share some of my experiences with other makers so they wouldn't make the same mistake. We always hear about how customers get burned, but we don't often hear about things on the maker's side.

I purchased a real milling machine recently after taking a loan out at the bank based on the orders I had -figured I'd pay it off pretty soon and I got tired of dicking around with stainless using the puny Sherline. Now I can make better knives with insanely good tolerances -cold fitting with a perfect push fit, but I'm in a bunch of debt. Probably end up paying the loan with my credit card ... until I somehow catch up. :mad: Kind of reminds me of what happened to Bob Loveless in the summer of '58 when he lost a bunch of orders -ironically I own one his knives from this exact time period which no one wanted! :rolleyes:

Marcus, you certainly have not lost me as a customer, I will continue to buy knives from you. When I buy a knife from you I buy it because YOU made it and if it is in the Loveless style it is your interpretation of that particular style of knife I've commisioned from you. I do not expect it to be an exact facsimile of one of Bobs knives!!
As I said before there is so much BS about this topic we could go on forever and never get an answer.

We're cool Rick, I wasn't referring to you. You'll always be one of the good guys. :) The amber stag NYS sold two days ago -it was a bunch of other orders from other customers that I was referring to.

Back to the topic at hand:

Thank you again for sharing your work with us Ian! I think we both have the same philosophy in mind when we make our knives -and that is we like our knives to be used. ;) Keep up the good work mate. :thumbup:
 
Do you think that if I said what you said about Marcus Lin's work, that he'd lose sales? Do you think he'd care, or anyone else? You surely must realize that many in this forum put you on a pedestal when it comes to your knowledge of custom knives and Loveless in particular?

Have seen to some small degree that is the case, Lorien, and don't understand it....nor is it wanted...it's constricting....that, if for no other reason is why I stepped down from the Board of Directors of the CKCA.

I HAVE EARNED the right to speak my mind.....however, it has become increasingly clear over the last couple of years that there is some hurt involved with exercising that right, and I have been trying to actively balance that. Marcus is the latest casualty, and if it does not appear that his pain is felt, well appearances can be deceiving. Empathy is not a strong suit here, but it is in place.

I have frequently mentioned THE experts on Loveless knives, and will do so again--Louis Chow, John Denton, Lou DiSantis, Dave Ellis, and Rhett Stidham...of these guys, only Dave Ellis participates regularly on BladeForums..and he almost never offers public critique.

I never meant to detract from the original post, but I just thought I'd share some of my experiences with other makers so they wouldn't make the same mistake. We always hear about how customers get burned, but we don't often hear about things on the maker's side.

I sent you a PM.


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Thanks mate.:thumbup:
I'd love to be able to make my own designs.
Well...I could, but I don't like ugly knives!
That's why I copy stuff I do like.;)Ian
That is a good looking knife, Ian. Depending on how it FEELS in my hand, it could stand on its own without the Loveless comparison. Also, your price makes it attractive as a user.

As for the steel, I buy few non-SS blades for my collection so I do not consider it collectable. I believe SS is a better choice for a collection to retain its appearance and value. However, most hunters have no objection to properly heat treated 1095 in the field.

As an aside, I applaud you (and anybody) for putting YOUR name on a blade YOU made. There are some great names on blades which have not been touched by the great ones. I don't buy those, but I might if the actual maker's name was on the blade.
 
Have seen to some small degree that is the case, Lorien, and don't understand it....nor is it wanted...it's constricting....that, if for no other reason is why I stepped down from the Board of Directors of the CKCA.

Steven,
your name and words have been published particularly with regards to custom knives in Blade mag and likely elsewhere of similarly high profile.

You also have a lengthy written segment in Dr. Darom's latest book.

You have tenure on this forum and through your personal involvement in the community over a great many years.

You personally know some of the more significant patrons and significant artisans in this community.


In short, you are seen as a significant member of this community by a good number of people. You have sought out and gained this 'constricting' position, it isn't something that is simply bestowed. As you pointed out, you've earned it.

That you underestimate the power which comes with this exposure is something that I have tried to point out here, and over the past few years to you in a handful of similar situations.

It's a responsibility that I feel you take too lightly, and that you sometimes exercise your power at the expense of others, on the surface in a seemingly mean spirited way. Hell, if I weren't so damn stubborn, some of the stuff you've dished my way could very well have driven me away from this community entirely, and a few times it almost did. But receiving support and encouragement from others in the community witnessing what was going down really helped me to keep myself in the game.

Perhaps it is necessary to have the counter balance that your approach provides. I would argue that it is. However, there are ways to provide that balance without hurting people unnecessarily. I've seen very few cases here where the one at the receiving end really deserved it.

It only takes a few words in a particular context to cause damage. The pen truly is mightier than the sword. Sure, the lasting effect might prove positive, but are you really so willing to take on that risk? To make enemies over something relatively insignificant, in a community to small and tight knit as this one is?

Steven, you have so much potential to bring good to the table- that we sometimes see brilliant glimmers of- and because of that, it is extra disappointing to see the opposite come to bear.

I hope that you take my words for what they're worth, which probably isn't much in your view. But please trust me when I say that my goal is to try and help you improve your approach, and feelings be damned;).
 
This is becoming a very interesting thread....:D....I like it.

Lawp, thanks for your thoughts mate, very much appreciated.:thumbup:

Just for the record, no one on here can hurt my feelings.

According to my ex-Mrs I don't have any.;):D

Cheers,

Ian
 
.......your name and words have been published particularly with regards to custom knives in Blade mag and likely elsewhere of similarly high profile.

You also have a lengthy written segment in Dr. Darom's latest book.

You have tenure on this forum and through your personal involvement in the community over a great many years.

You personally know some of the more significant patrons and significant artisans in this community.
.......

Anthony Lombardo, Roger Pinnock and Les Robertson have published significantly more work on the subject of knives in magazines and books(as far as I know) than I have, and probably ever will....in addition, they post here, and don't seem to be held to the high standards that you think I should...they get to say what is on their mind....because they earned it, and if someone has business that suffers because of it.....it might be because it should be that way(and I am not saying that is currently the case).

Placed another order with Marcus....for no other reason because I want to see how his work has improved with my own eyes and hands, and have the means to do so....and encourage those with the means to do so to do the same.....I encourage ALL the makers working in the Loveless style, and purchase from them when something looks "right".

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Anthony Lombardo, Roger Pinnock and Les Robertson have published significantly more work on the subject of knives in magazines and books(as far as I know) than I have, and probably ever will....in addition, they post here, and don't seem to be held to the high standards that you think I should...they get to say what is on their mind....because they earned it, and if someone has business that suffers because of it.....it might be because it should be that way(and I am not saying that is currently the case).

well, Les is a custom knife entrepreneur, and knowing vaguely how that might work I assume that he pulls his punches more often than not, he has a lot at stake due to his making his livelihood in this business. However, we've all seen him get into trouble from time to time:D. The giraffe bone guy probably doesn't like him much. Roger, well he's got a way with words to put it mildly, and expresses a very neutral attitude or at least a neutral way of expressing it. I don't know much about what Anthony's written, however his presence here on the forum is not so high profile as yours, at least not these days.

There's no need to compare anyone to anyone here. I never said that you should be held to any particular standard, high or low, or that you should be compared to anyone else's.

The fact is, that you are a unique individual. You have a lot to offer in great part due to the fact that you are more wolf than sheep, and I feel that is a significant asset, for yourself and for this community or any that you choose to be part of. I really just wanted to point out that your teeth are sharp, and sometimes come out when they really don't need to, in my opinion. It might be helpful to don the shepherd's cloak from time to time. I think you'd wear it well, if you can find the right fit.

I think it's awesome, Steven, not only that you placed an order with Marcus Lin, but that he accepted. I have no doubt that the fruit of that commission will be spectacular and will have the effect that I know you intended from the outset.

Ian, sorry for all this stuff in your thread. This is like the ultimate derailment, which I will endeavour in the future to avoid:o

I do have one comment to make about your knife, however. I'm curious about your using 1095. Why?
 
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