Lynn Griffith Forum Knife 2001

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Originally posted by Lynn Grififth Knives:
Taz,
I feel your last post was very well thought out. I appreciate it. Many good points were made.

Thanks,
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What about me? My posts were thought out too!! I didn't just make the stuff up you know. It took some research. Oh yes, I forgot. If you don't say only GOOD things about Lynn's knives, he bans you from his forum or refuses to talk to you. SO i guess I should say something good about them. Well, I was gonna say they would make a good door stop, but the hanldes are too thin to even be effective in that. Maybe I could use it to spread butter. Oh well.
 
Originally posted by Jeremy Reynolds:

the hanldes are too thin.
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Jeremy,
I agree. The handles were a little to thin. That is why a few months ago, I started making all my knives with a little thicker handles. An example is that the Tracker had 1/8" scales, it now has 1/4" scales. Another example is the Patrolman which had 1/8" scales, and now has 3/16" scales. That was a very good point. Thank you for mentioning it.




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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum
 
One last comment. Let me tell you about my experience with GRIZZLY. On August 20th, I ordered their knifemaker belt sander for $275 plus $42 shipping when it was on sale and was told I would get it in 4 to 6 weeks, just in time for my college break. The usual price is $349 plus the shipping. Well, I finally received it on October 25th, after waiting nearly 2 months. After 30 days wait and past their timeline for delivery, I got a card saying it was backordered again due to a "manufactuting delay" and I could cancel at any time, and if I didn't cancel, they would ship it as soon as it came in and that I was on the list to receive it before the general public. They also couldn't tell me when they were expecting them to arrive from Taiwan and that I wouldn't get charged until it shipped. Well, fine, but now I had $317 tied up on my credit card for an indefinite period I couldn't use until the grinder shipped and I was charged. Well, when I finally got the grinder, I was happy it was here until I plugged in the motor. There was a good deal of Bearing noise in the motor, so the motor has to be sent back for repair/replacement. I was so ticked because I waited a while for this thing and they send something that wasn't functioning properly and that showed their QC sucks. What also sucks is that people can order a grinder now and get it pretty quickly and it wil probably work fine for them because there was time for QC to check it out. When there is a waiting list, usually things are let slide in order to ship the product and get payment of it and they hope people don't complain. Heck, they even charge you for a call to the customer service department! And they put you on hold, too. When I get to it at my next break, I hope it will actually work and be up to my expectations, but already I feel I was overcharged for it without using it because of the long wait and poor QC.

Some of you may have figured out the point of this post. For the ones who didn't, I will explain it to you. First, waiting for anything sucks big time and when you finally receive it and it isn't up to par, people get pretty mad. Second, when there is a wait and QC is downgraded, that also pissed people off too. I know it pissed me off. When you pay good money for a product and what you receive isn't up to snuff, it is disturbing. When people can order something that you had to wait for and they get it at the same time without the wait, it also pisses people off. I had to wait 2 months to get the grinder for the sale price, but people can pay an extra $20 now and get it shipped because it is instock. People should be able to expect the demand and be prepared for it, not just let it slide. Also, if someone had ordered the same grinder and got it before me without having the 2 month wait, I would be pissed.

Lynn Griffith, please answer the questions several of us have. Will these special knives be made before the knives people have had on order are made? Herman asked this question and was bashed by ptpalpha, who never answered the question.

Also, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I hate waiting. A 2 year wait is ridiculous. How many knives do you make a year compared to how many are ordered? Do you make up blades earlier or in bulk or do you do them as you have orders for them? I am just curious as to the amount of orders you deal with. Other makers, how about your # knives per year vs # of orders and your waiting list time? Also, please include if you do file work or engraving with your stuff, because that adds time and cost.

As to my previous post, Mr. Griffith, please note the heavy sarcasm. I understand the time that is put into a knife, but 2 year waiting period, 8 HOUR satin handrubbed finish only to 600 grit??? What is really going on here?? Are you a full time maker or just part time? 2 years wait for a knife???? How long does it take you to make a knife???? Do you hacksaw out the blank, hand file, hand polish completely and use no modern tools at all??

You say you never had a returned knife and never had someone ask for their money back. Well, after waiting 2 years, I would be happy I finally got the blasted thing and would let some stuff slide that I wouldn't let slide if I didnt't have to wait so long.
Why wait another 2 years to get a replacement knife?

I just saw your post regarding the handle thickness, so I have edited this post. Thank you LG for replying about the handle thickness and changing it to reflect on the customers wishes. I guess my gripes now are the waiting period, price and the dispute about the special forum knife being made before other peoples orders. I can see that you are improving your quality as I have been reading reviews and that all say your grinds are excellent and getting better, and you are welcoming peoples ideas and incorporating them into your designs.

[This message has been edited by Taz (edited 10-28-2000).]
 
Taz if you consider uneven grinds, undercut plunge cuts, and a host of other problems reported on the Griffith knives, slight imperfections, I will not be getting a knife from you. I think slight would maybe be a small mark or even grinder marks but not most of what are reported on with the Griffiths. LOL a 8 hour hand finish with grinder marks tells me alot about the attention given to the work.
 
Db, I agree. Please note sarcasm used! You aren't the only one to not notice the sarcasm! Plunge cuts, grinds, etc are very important to a blade and how it performs. The slight imperfections I mentioned were from Chiro's review, like the uneven spacing of traction grooves and things that were cosmetic. Plunge and grind lines aren't minor. I was trying to illustrate a point. Someone had some complaints about big flaws, and the complaints were minimized, and still the person got banned. Also, to be a little fair, the grinds could be a fluke or bad QC. On my stuff, I am just starting out, so mine aren't near perfect, but I am getting there! I am learning, and that stuff takes practice. My point is that if the knife costs that much, has that long of a wait and has those flaws, it isn't a good knife or worth anywhere that money!! I will be the first to admit, my stuff isn't perfect, but I've only been at it since June of this year and I was using a really bad grinder with poor tracking, no pun intended! they will get better and are getting better every blade I do, and I don't think my prices are unreasonable! If you want a blade to totally trash, mine are great for that!
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In all seriousness, I agree with you DB and I try to make my blades the absolute best I can make them, including even plunges, grinds, etc.
 
again you boys are really good at avoiding a simple question! why is that?? why cant you simply answer them??
 
Tim....because Boys will be Boys....
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G2
 
Another thing, Lynn, why do you like deleting posts where people voice their opinions in your forum? Why do you feel you can censor free speech when they speak the truth and their opinions? Will you delete the post I put up or will you answer the questions posed by several people? or will you keep dancing and ignoring/banning/deleting everything you don't like?

If you are so confident in your knives, why not let your fans speak up in defense of you instead of deleting posts and banning people that you don't like.

Freedom of speech is a great thing and why do you feel you have the right to regulate it? It is your forum, but still, its ridiculous. Let your fan club defend you and maybe educate the people on why your knives are so much better than everyone elses. Let people voice their opinions, please.


I posted on LG's private forum at approx 5:55 PM, EST. Here is the URL:
http://pub5.ezboard.com/flynngriffithknivesforumgriffithknivesgeneraldiscussion.showMessage?topicID=487.topic

Lets see if I get a response and time how fast it is deleted or I am banned.

[This message has been edited by Taz (edited 10-28-2000).]
 
Hey Taz! good to hear from you, long time. 3 leg workouts? Didn't anybody ever talk to you about recovery time and overtraining? Hey, check this out-been training my younger son(165 lbs. 19 yrs old), he squatted 455 today and still 3 weeks to go till the meet!(proud poppa
smile.gif
). One of these days we gotta get up to Conn. to train with you. Have you been to the Hall of Fame in York? Lot of history there.
Ok, I tried to lighten this up a little before with some levity. Guess it ain't gonna work. You boys continue the sparring, I'll get me some food and just watch(and grow).
Tim Herman-you bastid, wanting answers
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Sure wish PhilL was back.

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Dave (Phil.4:13)
I Can Do All Things Through Him Who Strengthens Me
Lifter at work: www.profitness.com/Profiles/profileDaveAbramson
 
This gentleman, is a good old fashion pissing contest. Like most pissing contests the contestants come out all wet and stinky and you can't tell who won. You have Lynn in the corner and you expect him to come out and answer these questions? C'mon...quite bashing him. He is not gonna do it.

You made your opinions known. If you don't like his knives don't buy them. Period. If you think the general public is getting ripped off you let your feelings known and the public is now well informed. Thank you for caring.

I have 3 current knives from Lynn. A Tracker, Patrolman and a stout wharncliffe called the Expert I use in my shop. I had 2 mini neck knives, a Sniper and a Patroman I sold.

Do I like his knives? Yes I do. The Tracker is my favorite. I am glad to see Lynn putting thicker handles on them. They needed it and he heeded the advice of his customers. This should reduce the hand fatigue when skinning by quite a bit.

Do I like the 2 year wait. No. To be frank, the wait turns me off.

Do I like the prcies. No. My friend Lynn is overcharging IMHO. There are other knives out there that are just as good for the same price. This is my opinion and I exercise it by not ordering a knife. Not publically chastising him.

Do I like the unprofessionalism I am seeing here? No I do not. Paul is a friend, I respect Tim. This makes me uncomfortable and I hope it stops soon.

I like Lynn's knives but I have my own mind. I have confidence in my ability to understand a good knife and its worth (perhaps the only thing I am good at). At this time my interest are in other things but I also check out a Griffith knife when it is for sale and if the price is within the range I feel it is worth I will buy it.I post occasionally on his forum and I post occasionally at KFC and microtech, too. I am nobody's fool except my own.

How good are they? Well, they have improved immensely in the year I have known Lynn. The grinds on my Patrolman and Tracker are excellent. I had a patrolman that had some faults in the thumb grooves but it was still worth what I paid for it at the time though I since sold it. I have lots of knives (too many my wife would say) and I will put Lynn's Tracker up there with my other favorites I have. I have knives ranging from an Ed Fowler Proghorn to a MT LCC. I like working knives though I am starting to get bit by the art knife a bit. I can't tell you why I like the Tracker so much...I just do. It appeals to me as a working knife and I wish I could have one with a thicker handle but I am satisfied with what I have. I love the edge that it takes and how even the grinds are. It is a mirror image of itself on each side. You guys know how you feel when a knife appeals to you. It just does. No rhyme or reason. There shouldn't be a reason. That is why knives are so great. On me right now I have a Case Russlock, a BM Cub and a handmade fixed blade by my good friend Chris Christman that has an agate right in the middle of the Ray skin handle wrap. This selection doesn't match but I love it anyhow.

I am not trying to be a peacemaker but everyone cool out. Lynn doesn't have to walk into this firestorm. I don't blame him...still perhaps he may choose to post the answers to these questions on his forum or elsewhere. I wouldn't want to walk in here either and to be honest, I don't see what Lynn did to start this flame. This is Paul's post...not Lynn's. There is just so much anger at Lynn for reasons I don't have the energy to post here why that I don't think many of you really care what the answers are. No matter what Lynn said...you wouldn't be happy. You just want to punish him behind the safety of your computer screen. Just leave him alone and he will leave you alone.

Can we just all get along?
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Rodney King

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
JKM-Chai
 
Kodiak,
i agree! i only asked ptpalpha a simple question and he went off on me, sorry. i had no intention of this turning into another mess. after that i only wondered why he never answered my question and still hasnt.
 
Kodiak, I agree with you for the most part. I am not the slightest bit interested in discussing either the quality or pricing of Lynn's knives. It is his shameless self-promotion and ridiculous forum that gets him into so much trouble around here. And the occaisional sales pitches he manages to get some of the true believers to post Here.

I was not kidding when I said it was the funniest web site I know about. It has me rolling on the floor sometimes. I can't figure out why so many folks fall into the personality cult thing Lynn works so hard to create. It is phonier than a road side fortune teller. The smell of snake oil (herpetoleum) fills the air wherever his name is uttered.

It is the Way he markets his work and personality that bother me. This thread started because a couple of Lynn's customers are concerned about getting three or four more people to sign up, send Lynn a deposit (no custom makers I know will accept my deposit), and then, and only then will Lynn agree to make, and mark as a Limited Edition knife, one of these 'forum' knives which seem very expensive for what they are considering the price of other knives on the open market. This whole thing is just so weird I can not begin to fathom why folks go for it.

I leave Lynn alone for the most part. I am not banned (I don't think) at Lynn's forum as I have never posted there. But maybe if Lynn was a little less aggressive about deleting dissent and banning folks from his discussion forum, he would not arouse so much passion in his detractors. He should stand up and take the criticisms along with the praise. It can only help him as a maker, and as a person.

Good luck and good fortune to Lynn, and to his customers
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Paracelsus
 
Gregs post was actually pretty well written. I agree with much of what he said. I am a former owner of 8 Griffiths, a few Patrolmen, Sniper, Tracker and a few mini-neck knives. I have since done all I can to learn everything I can in what to look for in a custom knife. Im still learning, but my purchases are much more informed now. Knowing what I know now, or at least what I think I know, I would not have blindly bought so many. The Patrolman for instance would be a good choice in the hundred dollar range, but there are to many knives out there of equal or greater quality that cost less than the standard Patrolman does now.

In another posy Lynn stated that he flat grinds which is more time consuming. I have corresponded with a couple of makers whose opinions I respect and they state that the time difference between flat and hollow is minimal, and in for some makers there is no difference. If flat grinding is a justification for a price over a hollow grind, then I am still confused. Many people have good things to say about the value of Geno Denning, his are hollow ground, but also have stag or wood handles, and satin or mirror finish, stainless guard and a tapered tang and cost less money.

I wont comment on Lynns marketing methods, different strokes ya know...but I will say its effective. Anytime he had a knife in stock, I would grab a handfull of money and snatch it up. Did I think they were good knives? I sure did. Do I think they are still good? Probably so, but taking everything I have learned to look for, I would not be able to justify the price. If the Patrolman were around 100 dollars, and the Tracker at 125 - 135 then I think the value would be there.

What about the forum knife we are hearing about? I think its a slightly larger Patrolman called the supercop...its been made before in standard beadblast and micarta. The forum version will have wood handles and a hand rubbed finish...is it worth 400 (320 with discount)? My expiriance with Griffith knives, including a hand rubbed one would be no. Again, there are to many fine makers that will turn knives out with more features at the sub-200 dollar level, and some of the big boys for sub-250.

Do I think Paul (ptpalpha) is a moron for buying? Not really, its his money and I sure cant tell him how to spend it, just as he cant tell me how to spend mine. If it makes him happy, thats great.

Basically, I have said good things about Griffiths in the past, and I stand by them. They are good knives. However, as I began to research more, and examine other makers and read the forums here, I realized there are better knives with more features and equal or greater quality for less money, and I will continue to search for the most knife at a fair price that I can find.



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Richard
icq 61363141
Just some knife pictures
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=110070&a=4518795
UPDATED and REVISED
 
Ok folks,
Back to economics 101 here

What is something worth?

Exactly what someone is willing to pay for it - No more, no less.

If Lynn can get $400, or even 4 million for a knife, the knife is worth it - TO THAT BUYER.

So, Lynn asks $400 for a Patrolman, and has a 2 year backlog of orders. You know what that tells me? He might be able to RAISE his price, to cut down on the backlog.

Notice I said MIGHT - these things are NOT linier. A raise in prices might stop all orders.

It's a business decision - Charge what you can get (and no, I don't make knifes for a living)
 
Taz as I am not real smart I missed your point.
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I do agree with your post after mine and would now be very happy to get one of your knives. Thanks for clearing that up for a dope like me.
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I'm suprized nobody has brought up how we save our heads and sell Lynn Griffith knives at airports..........
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C'mon ....... Group hug .........
 
I'm sure glad I missed this post. Never seen so many hens at a peckin' party. Whooooeeeee! I have a couple of suggestions. 1) If you don't like someone's knife, don't buy it. 2) If you don't like someone's knife, criticize the knife. Personal attacks lead to nowhere. I know we all love to see them, like we like to see a fight break out at a hockey game. But I used to think they were banned here. Apparently they are not as long as there is a majority doing the kicking. I'm not trying to defend Lynn by any stretch of the imagination (I wouldn't even know how, since I don't know Lynn, don't hang out at his forum, and don't own any of his knives), but I am trying to defend the decorum of BF. Stupid me. Never get between a pack of wolves and their prey.


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Richard,
You are the one that suggested I raise the price of my Tracker to $225, the price of my Patrolman to $180, and the price of my Sniper to $190. I listened to you because I trusted you, I was not making a profit at the price I was selling them, and I was getting more orders coming in that month than I could make in a 4 month period. (BTW, your advise was good. According to Tim Herman, in the telephone in a conversation a few months back, you are the one that went back and forth between talking to me and talking on the chat room, to make sure thing stayed riled up on the chat room. Tim Herman also told me that you took him aside to make sure you told him my first name, and made fun of it (Julious to any that are curious). You are also the one that has been to my house, I have been to your house. I considered you at a time to be my very best friend, all the while according to Tim Herman (and evidence seems to indicate he was right) that you were playing a game. You are also the one that had very quick sell for all your griffith knives when you went to sell them. Seems to me that if the value was not there, you would not been able to sell them used. Your post saddens me greatly, becuase at one time I thought you were the best friend I had ever had.

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum
 
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