m390 sebenza?

[asdf12345]

People will say that the Sebenza's S35-VN 58-59 RC heat treat is by design, and advantageous over harder heat treats, because of "ease of sharpening". That argument strikes me as apologist.

Talk about its theoretical advantage all you want but are you really going to freehand sharpen your expensive, precisely made Sebenza on a tiny ceramic rod out in the middle of nowhere just to prove a point about "field sharpening"?

Is the type of person doing the type of tasks requiring frequent "field sharpening" going to be using a Sebenza, a folder with a short blade, tight tolerances, tons of little gaps for dirt to collect in, and a lock type known to be sensitive to dirt and debris? If you do use your Sebenza for such tasks, are you doing so because it's the right tool for the job or so that you can say that you did it? "But it's such a joy to clean and put back together because of the tight tolerances!" Okay, glad you're wasting your time on your camping trip cleaning out your folding knife. Hope you took your set of DMT stones out in the woods too so that you can get a nice clean edge back.

The F&F is so precise on the Sebenza, the attention to quality and appearance is so good, and it is such a boutique item that to say its blade is heat treated very differently from everyone else so that your average everyday user can more easily sharpen it is laughable.

When I hear "ease of sharpening", to me that means "I can pick up a rock and scrape it on my edge, wipe it on my pants and then it's good to go", not "I don't have to make as many passes with the coarse stone on my Edge Pro."

It takes considerable skill and expensive equipment to properly sharpen a V hollow ground blade with a curved edge like the Sebenza's. If you own such equipment and have the time to learn to sharpen a knife, then sharpening steels that are run a little bit harder should be no issue.

At a high hardness S35VN is a solid performer, as demonstrated by the many, many other production knives using this steel, some made by ZT, some by Spyderco, some by Strider and some by Microtech, among many others. There's no need to change the actual steel being used.

 

[Sam Wilson]

People will say that the Sebenza's S35-VN 58-59 RC heat treat is by design, and advantageous over harder heat treats, because of "ease of sharpening". That argument strikes me as apologist.

Talk about its theoretical advantage all you want but are you really going to freehand sharpen your expensive, precisely made Sebenza on a tiny ceramic rod out in the middle of nowhere just to prove a point about "field sharpening"?

Is the type of person doing the type of tasks requiring frequent "field sharpening" going to be using a Sebenza, a folder with a short blade, tight tolerances, tons of little gaps for dirt to collect in, and a lock type known to be sensitive to dirt and debris? If you do use your Sebenza for such tasks, are you doing so because it's the right tool for the job or so that you can say that you did it? "But it's such a joy to clean and put back together because of the tight tolerances!" Okay, glad you're wasting your time on your camping trip cleaning out your folding knife. Hope you took your set of DMT stones out in the woods too so that you can get a nice clean edge back.

The F&F is so precise on the Sebenza, the attention to quality and appearance is so good, and it is such a boutique item that to say its blade is heat treated very differently from everyone else so that your average everyday user can more easily sharpen it is laughable.

When I hear "ease of sharpening", to me that means "I can pick up a rock and scrape it on my edge, wipe it on my pants and then it's good to go", not "I don't have to make as many passes with the coarse stone on my Edge Pro."

It takes considerable skill and expensive equipment to properly sharpen a V hollow ground blade with a curved edge like the Sebenza's. If you own such equipment and have the time to learn to sharpen a knife, then sharpening steels that are run a little bit harder should be no issue.
At a high hardness S35VN is a solid performer, as demonstrated by the many, many other production knives using this steel, some made by ZT, some by Spyderco, some by Strider and some by Microtech, among many others. There's no need to change the actual steel being used.

I don't know Chris Reeve and don't speak for him, so these are just my thoughts. This stuff has all been covered before in many, many other threads, but I will give my 2 cents anyway. I use my Sebenza daily, and have carried it daily for over 16 years and two different blades for it. I have sharpened it in the field a time or two while backpacking, and used a small diamond hone. I don't see what the big deal is. I have taken it apart once I think, and that was just to see what it was all about.

I haven't ever had any problems with it getting clogged up or the lock failing, and frankly calling it a "boutique" knife sounds more like trolling, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I run my knives, "survival" knives anyway, at around 58 for exactly the same purposes, so they are easy to field sharpen. This is certainly not a new concept, and has been done by many over the years. There's a reason: it makes knives easier to sharpen, particularly in the field. That's not a theory or fanboy speak, it's fact.

I don't know if the line about requiring "expensive equipment to sharpen the Sebenza's blade" is sarcasm or a joke, but I have sharpened mine on a ceramic rod, small diamond hone, waterstones, and sandpaper, all with relative ease. So I don't know what else to say to that.

Sam :thumbup:

 

[gmarthur]

People will say that the Sebenza's S35-VN 58-59 RC heat treat is by design, and advantageous over harder heat treats, because of "ease of sharpening". That argument strikes me as apologist.

Talk about its theoretical advantage all you want but are you really going to freehand sharpen your expensive, precisely made Sebenza on a tiny ceramic rod out in the middle of nowhere just to prove a point about "field sharpening"?

Is the type of person doing the type of tasks requiring frequent "field sharpening" going to be using a Sebenza, a folder with a short blade, tight tolerances, tons of little gaps for dirt to collect in, and a lock type known to be sensitive to dirt and debris? If you do use your Sebenza for such tasks, are you doing so because it's the right tool for the job or so that you can say that you did it? "But it's such a joy to clean and put back together because of the tight tolerances!" Okay, glad you're wasting your time on your camping trip cleaning out your folding knife. Hope you took your set of DMT stones out in the woods too so that you can get a nice clean edge back.

The F&F is so precise on the Sebenza, the attention to quality and appearance is so good, and it is such a boutique item that to say its blade is heat treated very differently from everyone else so that your average everyday user can more easily sharpen it is laughable.

When I hear "ease of sharpening", to me that means "I can pick up a rock and scrape it on my edge, wipe it on my pants and then it's good to go", not "I don't have to make as many passes with the coarse stone on my Edge Pro."

It takes considerable skill and expensive equipment to properly sharpen a V hollow ground blade with a curved edge like the Sebenza's. If you own such equipment and have the time to learn to sharpen a knife, then sharpening steels that are run a little bit harder should be no issue.

At a high hardness S35VN is a solid performer, as demonstrated by the many, many other production knives using this steel, some made by ZT, some by Spyderco, some by Strider and some by Microtech, among many others. There's no need to change the actual steel being used.

Ease of sharpening does not equate to sharpening in the field. I like the fact that i can take a knife and give it a few quick passes on a brown spyderco rod by hand while sitting at my kitchen table and it is back to sharp. No need to assemble something or clamp something. I think some people don't believe $400 knives get used and sharpened daily. Those that do use and maintain their Sebenzas can appreciate that fact of ease of sharpening. I went through my supersteel phase years ago and am glad that phase ended.

 

[uofaengr]

Ease of sharpening does not equate to sharpening in the field. I like the fact that i can take a knife and give it a few quick passes on a brown spyderco rod by hand while sitting at my kitchen table and it is back to sharp. No need to assemble something or clamp something. I think some people don't believe $400 knives get used and sharpened daily. Those that do use and maintain their Sebenzas can appreciate that fact of ease of sharpening. I went through my supersteel phase years ago and am glad that phase ended.

This is why I like VG-10, S30V, and S35VN so much. A few swipes and I'm back in business. Most of the people who troll about what Chris runs his steel at have never used it nor even seen one in person but are Internet metallurgy experts based on a questionably biased YouTube video.

Benchmade advertises their S30V at 58-60. Do you really think every single one of those in the store are sitting at 60.0? So where is all the constant bitching about how they run their hardness? Same reason why Spyderco doesn't reveal theirs...so they don't have to deal with the Internet experts trashing their brand over something most know very little about.

At least Chris is upfront about how he runs his, and I have to say I admire him somewhat for frankly not giving a damn what Joe Blow sitting in front of his laptop thinks is best.

 

[asdf12345]

I don't know Chris Reeve and don't speak for him, so these are just my thoughts. This stuff has all been covered before in many, many other threads, but I will give my 2 cents anyway. I use my Sebenza daily, and have carried it daily for over 16 years and two different blades for it. I have sharpened it in the field a time or two while backpacking, and used a small diamond hone. I don't see what the big deal is. I have taken it apart once I think, and that was just to see what it was all about.

I haven't ever had any problems with it getting clogged up or the lock failing, and frankly calling it a "boutique" knife sounds more like trolling, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I run my knives, "survival" knives anyway, at around 58 for exactly the same purposes, so they are easy to field sharpen. This is certainly not a new concept, and has been done by many over the years. There's a reason: it makes knives easier to sharpen, particularly in the field. That's not a theory or fanboy speak, it's fact.

I don't know if the line about requiring "expensive equipment to sharpen the Sebenza's blade" is sarcasm or a joke, but I have sharpened mine on a ceramic rod, small diamond hone, waterstones, and sandpaper, all with relative ease. So I don't know what else to say to that.

Sam :thumbup:

I was not suggesting that the Sebenza was failure prone, I was talking about framelocks' sensitivity to debris in general. I didn't say anything about fanboys or theories either, please don't put words in my mouth.

While your experiences are valid, do you agree that the majority of knife users and consumers of knives such as the Sebenza are not knifemakers as you are?

The idea behind the 58-59 RC is that the average user will have an easier time sharpening the knife because of its softer heat treat, with some tradeoffs in performance.

But no matter what the blade steel or edge type, your average user will have difficulty getting a sharp, clean edge in the field with pocket tools.

To obtain even, sharp, clean edges approaching or exceeding factory sharpness is unlikely in the "field" for your average user. Sharpening to this degree must be done in the home with equipment such as a Edge Pro or Wicked Edge and hours of practice, and even then it is not a guarantee. A Wicked Edge sharpener starts at $300, with some systems costing over $750. The most basic Edge Pro sharpener starts at $160, with some systems costing over $700. I don't know if the line about "sarcasm or a joke" was itself sarcasm or a joke, but when your sharpening system costs more than a lot of good knives themselves cost, I'd say that's expensive. It's certainly expensive for me, but perhaps you are more well off than I am.

Yes, you could learn to get even, sharp, polished edges all freehand, but I'm not sure if the average user will spend hours and hours learning to do this. Stones, strops & compounds add up in price too - not to mention any meager savings in money purchasing freehand sharpening materials versus purchasing a consistent-angle sharpening system would be completely nullified by the extra time that has to be spent to gain proficiency in freehand sharpening.

An average user with little to no sharpening experience is not going to be affected significantly by a softer heat treat when it comes to sharpening, and especially not "in the field". Likewise, once a user becomes proficient at sharpening, they are not going to be affected significantly by that softer heat treat. What your average user will be affected by is the performance consequences of that softer heat treat.

As I said before, to me "ease of sharpening" means "I could scrape it on a rock and get a useable edge in a few swipes", not "once I spend a few dozen hours practicing with my $400 Wicked Edge, I'll be able to save a few minutes when sharpening my Sebenza!"

 

[The Aflac Duck]

People will say that the Sebenza's S35-VN 58-59 RC heat treat is by design, and advantageous over harder heat treats, because of "ease of sharpening". That argument strikes me as apologist.

Talk about its theoretical advantage all you want but are you really going to freehand sharpen your expensive, precisely made Sebenza on a tiny ceramic rod out in the middle of nowhere just to prove a point about "field sharpening"?

Is the type of person doing the type of tasks requiring frequent "field sharpening" going to be using a Sebenza, a folder with a short blade, tight tolerances, tons of little gaps for dirt to collect in, and a lock type known to be sensitive to dirt and debris? If you do use your Sebenza for such tasks, are you doing so because it's the right tool for the job or so that you can say that you did it? "But it's such a joy to clean and put back together because of the tight tolerances!" Okay, glad you're wasting your time on your camping trip cleaning out your folding knife. Hope you took your set of DMT stones out in the woods too so that you can get a nice clean edge back.

The F&F is so precise on the Sebenza, the attention to quality and appearance is so good, and it is such a boutique item that to say its blade is heat treated very differently from everyone else so that your average everyday user can more easily sharpen it is laughable.

When I hear "ease of sharpening", to me that means "I can pick up a rock and scrape it on my edge, wipe it on my pants and then it's good to go", not "I don't have to make as many passes with the coarse stone on my Edge Pro."

It takes considerable skill and expensive equipment to properly sharpen a V hollow ground blade with a curved edge like the Sebenza's. If you own such equipment and have the time to learn to sharpen a knife, then sharpening steels that are run a little bit harder should be no issue.

At a high hardness S35VN is a solid performer, as demonstrated by the many, many other production knives using this steel, some made by ZT, some by Spyderco, some by Strider and some by Microtech, among many others. There's no need to change the actual steel being used.

What the hell are you talking about? Plenty of people use their sebenza's at work, along with much more expensive knives...

It's not to "say you did it" or "prove a point", it's to actually get your money's worth out of your knife. Your argument comes across as ignorant and uninformed.

I field sharpen my knives all the time. Since you don't, this may come as a surprise since you seem to think everybody abides by the same knife rules as you. The other day, I smoothed out a burr on a ceramic wallmount sink, and in about 20 seconds, my sebenza was sharper.

"Considerable skill and expensive equipment"? maybe for you... I keep a fallkniven DC4 in my work bag, and a couple swipes will bring even the dullest sebenza back to working-sharp.

I've never had an issue with dirt/dust in my Seb either, so to make such an assumption without any first hand knowledge is foolish. I've dug hole in the ground with my sebenza and its fine...

I work construction and have used many types of steel at work. Steels like M390, CPM-Cruwear, M4, CPM-D2, Elmax, S30V, CTS-204P, and many others... And without getting into carbon steels, CRK's S35VN is the best performer I've used. You know why? Because of ease of maintenance and overall performance...

Don't go around talking about experiences with knives that you've never had. The people that actually know what their talking about will think you're an idiot (yes, I do...).

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I was not suggesting that the Sebenza was failure prone, I was talking about framelocks' sensitivity to debris in general. I didn't say anything about fanboys or theories either, please don't put words in my mouth.

While your experiences are valid, do you agree that the majority of knife users and consumers of knives such as the Sebenza are not knifemakers as you are?

The idea behind the 58-59 RC is that the average user will have an easier time sharpening the knife because of its softer heat treat, with some tradeoffs in performance.

But no matter what the blade steel or edge type, your average user will have difficulty getting a sharp, clean edge in the field with pocket tools.

To obtain even, sharp, clean edges approaching or exceeding factory sharpness is unlikely in the "field" for your average user. Sharpening to this degree must be done in the home with equipment such as a Edge Pro or Wicked Edge and hours of practice, and even then it is not a guarantee. A Wicked Edge sharpener starts at $300, with some systems costing over $750. The most basic Edge Pro sharpener starts at $160, with some systems costing over $700. I don't know if the line about "sarcasm or a joke" was itself sarcasm or a joke, but when your sharpening system costs more than a lot of good knives themselves cost, I'd say that's expensive. It's certainly expensive for me, but perhaps you are more well off than I am.

Yes, you could learn to get even, sharp, polished edges all freehand, but I'm not sure if the average user will spend hours and hours learning to do this. Stones, strops & compounds add up in price too - not to mention any meager savings in money purchasing freehand sharpening materials versus purchasing a consistent-angle sharpening system would be completely nullified by the extra time that has to be spent to gain proficiency in freehand sharpening.

An average user with little to no sharpening experience is not going to be affected significantly by a softer heat treat when it comes to sharpening, and especially not "in the field". Likewise, once a user becomes proficient at sharpening, they are not going to be affected significantly by that softer heat treat. What your average user will be affected by is the performance consequences of that softer heat treat.

As I said before, to me "ease of sharpening" means "I could scrape it on a rock and get a useable edge in a few swipes", not "once I spend a few dozen hours practicing with my $400 Wicked Edge, I'll be able to save a few minutes when sharpening my Sebenza!"

Again, what the hell are you talking about?

You're suggest that you know how I use my own knives. You know nothing about me, my sebenza, what I do, and what any other members do with their knives. Stop acting like you have all this experience...

Why would I need my sebenza sporting a mirror polished edge for working construction? You don't have a clue what I use my knife for... I've had my sebenza with a mirror polished edge once, and it was turned to a working edge in about an hour of work.

And what is you're definition for the "average user"? Do you think everyone with a sebenza should be a metallurgist or something? Guess what buddy, I am the average user.

Perhaps you didn't know, but the word Sebenza translates to "work"...
Who woulda thunk???

 

[Sam Wilson]

I was not suggesting that the Sebenza was failure prone, I was talking about framelocks' sensitivity to debris in general. I didn't say anything about fanboys or theories either, please don't put words in my mouth.

While your experiences are valid, do you agree that the majority of knife users and consumers of knives such as the Sebenza are not knifemakers as you are?

The idea behind the 58-59 RC is that the average user will have an easier time sharpening the knife because of its softer heat treat, with some tradeoffs in performance.

But no matter what the blade steel or edge type, your average user will have difficulty getting a sharp, clean edge in the field with pocket tools.

To obtain even, sharp, clean edges approaching or exceeding factory sharpness is unlikely in the "field" for your average user. Sharpening to this degree must be done in the home with equipment such as a Edge Pro or Wicked Edge and hours of practice, and even then it is not a guarantee. A Wicked Edge sharpener starts at $300, with some systems costing over $750. The most basic Edge Pro sharpener starts at $160, with some systems costing over $700. I don't know if the line about "sarcasm or a joke" was itself sarcasm or a joke, but when your sharpening system costs more than a lot of good knives themselves cost, I'd say that's expensive. It's certainly expensive for me, but perhaps you are more well off than I am.

Yes, you could learn to get even, sharp, polished edges all freehand, but I'm not sure if the average user will spend hours and hours learning to do this. Stones, strops & compounds add up in price too - not to mention any meager savings in money purchasing freehand sharpening materials versus purchasing a consistent-angle sharpening system would be completely nullified by the extra time that has to be spent to gain proficiency in freehand sharpening.

An average user with little to no sharpening experience is not going to be affected significantly by a softer heat treat when it comes to sharpening, and especially not "in the field". Likewise, once a user becomes proficient at sharpening, they are not going to be affected significantly by that softer heat treat. What your average user will be affected by is the performance consequences of that softer heat treat.

As I said before, to me "ease of sharpening" means "I could scrape it on a rock and get a useable edge in a few swipes", not "once I spend a few dozen hours practicing with my $400 Wicked Edge, I'll be able to save a few minutes when sharpening my Sebenza!"

I don't come to the interwebs to argue, so I'm going to keep this short and sweet. I never put words in your mouth, I said it wasn't theory or fanboy speak. Take it as you will. I have never had those sharpening systems, and I sharpened my Sebenza, along with a ton of other knives on a little DMT stone that costs about $20 for well over a decade before I became a knifemaker.

Also, if somebody has trouble sharpening a softer steel, how do you think they're going to fare with a much harder "super steel?" If they don't know how to sharpen, they don't know how to sharpen. As has been mentioned, plenty of people run their S35VN at similar hardness, so I don't see what the big deal is. Any steel is going to get dull if you use it enough, so if you have to sharpen it in the field or just in a hurry, why complicate it with a difficult to sharpen steel? But if that's your preference, go for it.

I also think these mechanical systems are neat gadgets, but everybody should know how sharpen a knife with a plain stone or rod. Just my opinion there. What's the point of a "super steel" if you can't sharpen it, or any other knife, without some special gadget?

 

[mmarkh]

Having used both CRK's S35VN and S30V I don't see any performance problems with either steel. :thumbup:

Same here, what the heck are you guys cutting anyway?

 

[Alberta Ed]

I haven't found S35Vn any more difficult to sharpen than VG-10, S30V, 154CM, CPM154, with diamond hones. In the field or at home, it's really no big deal.

 

[asdf12345]

It's not to "say you did it" or "prove a point", it's to actually get your money's worth out of your knife.

I've dug hole in the ground with my sebenza and its fine...

Yes, I'm sure a sharpened chunk of S35-VN on a $410 folding knife was the right tool for that job. Thankfully, if anyone were to question something about framelocks, or god forbid, the specific framelock on the Sebenza, you can tell them that you dug a hole in the ground with one.

Nowhere did I mention lock failure anyhow; frame and liner locks are sensitive to debris. If debris gets between the lock interface and the tang, lock stick and slip can occur and that area must be carefully cleaned.

Anyhow, the point of my mentioning that had nothing to do with framelocks, linerlocks or the Sebenza in particular. It has to do with average users using sensible tools for certain jobs. Yes, of course you can do all your camping tasks, gut a few fish, maybe baton a little with a short, thin blade in an expensive framelock folder. Those that do are sure to mention it several times on the forums.

But the vast majority of people doing heavy duty jobs such as camping or construction work where "field sharpening" actually applies are highly unlikely to be using Sebenzas.

I work construction and have used many types of steel at work. Steels like M390, CPM-Cruwear, M4, CPM-D2, Elmax, S30V, CTS-204P, and many others... And without getting into carbon steels, CRK's S35VN is the best performer I've used. You know why? Because of ease of maintenance and overall performance...

And what is you're definition for the "average user"? Do you think everyone with a sebenza should be a metallurgist or something? Guess what buddy, I am the average user.

Your average knife user probably doesn't belong to a knife discussion forum, doesn't have as much experience with different knives as you or I have, and doesn't have the willingness or financial means to seek out, purchase and maintain expensive folding knives. We are certainly not average users.

Why would I need my sebenza sporting a mirror polished edge for working construction? You don't have a clue what I use my knife for... I've had my sebenza with a mirror polished edge once, and it was turned to a working edge in about an hour of work.

I'm not talking about perfect mirror polished edges. I mentioned polished edges because it was an aspect of freehand sharpening and I was comparing the time commitment to learning to freehand sharpen with the time commitment to learning to sharpen with a consistent angle sharpener. It has nothing to do with the Sebenza.

You're suggest that you know how I use my own knives. You know nothing about me, my sebenza, what I do, and what any other members do with their knives. Stop acting like you have all this experience...

You're suggesting that I'm an uninformed keyboard warrior who's out to attack you and your choice of knife. Stop acting like the victim.

 

[sodak]

That is a totally valid point...and one not too different from one I made several years back.

There are options. I make no claims that any of CRK options are right for "EVERYONE", or even "anyone-ALL of the time". But I do claim that they are right for a LOT of people MOST of the time.

Im not sure this thread is the right place to compare and contrast CRKs to $40 knives, so I won't. I was however suggesting a bit of caution in adopting some of the laughable knife "tests" out there. It is pretty hard to deduce the perfect blade for a stanger on a forum, but it is REALLY EASY to scoff a design based on a VERY limited set of performance metrics that may or may not have ANYTHING to do with what the stranger on the forum will actually do with the knife.

There are countless examples of "better" steels (depending on who you ask). Your choice would likely be in a tiny majority in room full of contractors using disposable bladed utility knives or basic jabenzas that they can sharpen easily...but it doesn't make your choice wrong.

All that said, I see a lot of Sebenza's getting sold in the exchange for a small loss. I might sugggest that that small loss is a worthy price to pay for the KNOWLEDGE of how it performed for YOUR needs. Otherwise, you will either be forced to wonder if you are missing out on something, or you will just have to parrot potentially questionable information you saw on a video...

You raise several good points here. They do indeed hold their value, so you could sell at break even or a small loss, but putting the money out up front can hurt a little. I was really disappointed in the edge holding, but wouldn't mind trying one in BG42....

I appreciate and respect your opinion, and if it's not right for you, you know that best. But just deciding in favor of some $40 knife (whatever it may be) because of edge holding is like saying "I'm going to get rid of my work truck with long bed and load capacity and get a Corolla, because the Corolla can go longer between fillups." But that is just my opinion, so take it for what you will. No offense meant, I just wanted to point out edge holding wasn't the only aspect in the design.

Sam :thumbup:

I hear you. And to be fair, the Sebenza is every bit as good tolerance-wise as everyone says. It is truly well engineered, the $40 knives don't even approach it from that perspective - no contest. I was hoping that the edge retention would be similarly better, as I tend to value that above most everything else. That's probably why I was so disappointed, that a knife that excelled in so many things wouldn't hold a decent edge. Hopefully, they have gotten better (in that regard) over the years. I would love to find an old one in BG42 and give that a try, it might be a "grail knife"...

 

[asdf12345]

Also, if somebody has trouble sharpening a softer steel, how do you think they're going to fare with a much harder "super steel?" If they don't know how to sharpen, they don't know how to sharpen. As has been mentioned, plenty of people run their S35VN at similar hardness, so I don't see what the big deal is. Any steel is going to get dull if you use it enough, so if you have to sharpen it in the field or just in a hurry, why complicate it with a difficult to sharpen steel? But if that's your preference, go for it.

I also think these mechanical systems are neat gadgets, but everybody should know how sharpen a knife with a plain stone or rod. Just my opinion there. What's the point of a "super steel" if you can't sharpen it, or any other knife, without some special gadget?

All valid points but I was not criticizing the specific steel choice of S35-VN. If someone has the means and the willingness to take the time to learn to properly sharpen a knife, then why would that extra hardness pose such a problem for resharpening? Of course if you're talking about S110-V or other "supersteels" vs. S35-VN that is a different story and was not my intent.

Of all the knives in the world that ever need to be sharpened "in the field" or "in a hurry", I doubt there are very many CRKs. As I said before most average users are unlikely to use something like a Sebenza for hard tasks where frequent resharpening is necessary. I would go so far as to say that even many people in the knife community wouldn't be keen on using a $410 framelock folder with a short, thin blade for work where "field sharpening" is necessary.

 

[bhyde]

I field sharpen my Sebenzas as well as my other knives..No fancy gadgets required although I do own some..collecting dust or holding down a shelf somewhere.

"People will say that the Sebenza's S35-VN 58-59 RC heat treat is by design, and advantageous over harder heat treats, because of "ease of sharpening". That argument strikes me as apologist."

People do say that because CHRIS REEVE stated that.. Do you know more about making knives than Chris? Do you know who is target market is? Why would his target market matter?

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Yes, I'm sure a sharpened chunk of S35-VN on a $410 folding knife was the right tool for that job. Thankfully, if anyone were to question something about framelocks, or god forbid, the specific framelock on the Sebenza, you can tell them that you dug a hole in the ground with one.

Nowhere did I mention lock failure anyhow; frame and liner locks are sensitive to debris. If debris gets between the lock interface and the tang, lock stick and slip can occur and that area must be carefully cleaned.

Anyhow, the point of my mentioning that had nothing to do with framelocks, linerlocks or the Sebenza in particular. It has to do with average users using sensible tools for certain jobs. Yes, of course you can do all your camping tasks, gut a few fish, maybe baton a little with a short, thin blade in an expensive framelock folder. Those that do are sure to mention it several times on the forums.

But the vast majority of people doing heavy duty jobs such as camping or construction work where "field sharpening" actually applies are highly unlikely to be using Sebenzas.





Your average knife user probably doesn't belong to a knife discussion forum, doesn't have as much experience with different knives as you or I have, and doesn't have the willingness or financial means to seek out, purchase and maintain expensive folding knives. We are certainly not average users.



I'm not talking about perfect mirror polished edges. I mentioned polished edges because it was an aspect of freehand sharpening and I was comparing the time commitment to learning to freehand sharpen with the time commitment to learning to sharpen with a consistent angle sharpener. It has nothing to do with the Sebenza.



You're suggesting that I'm an uninformed keyboard warrior who's out to attack you and your choice of knife. Stop acting like the victim.

A sharpened piece of S35VN was the right tool to dig a hole...
Because that's all I had...
Again, you know nothing about me or what I do for a living. You're assuming my job responsibilities are the same as yours (they're not...).

Of course we talk about how we use our knives, it's a knife forum. Where did you think we were?

I've met a few construction workers who carry spydercos, benchmades, kershaws, etc... My boss even asked me where to buy a sebenza, fully aware of the price tag... Sure, sebenza's aren't everywhere, but don't assume it's a niche market. CRK has been in business for years...

Well we're not knife experts either... If we were, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Again, we are the average users...

If needing a polished edge wasn't part of your argument, then why did you even bring that up?

You're suggesting I'm playing the victim...
You are...

You came here with some broad/vague assumptions, and when people with real knowledge called you out, you pulled the whole "oh, I meant it in a different way" bullcrap... Grow up dude...

 

[asdf12345]

I field sharpen my Sebenzas as well as my other knives..No fancy gadgets required although I do own some..collecting dust or holding down a shelf somewhere.

"People will say that the Sebenza's S35-VN 58-59 RC heat treat is by design, and advantageous over harder heat treats, because of "ease of sharpening". That argument strikes me as apologist."

People do say that because CHRIS REEVE stated that.. Do you know more about making knives than Chris? Do you know who is target market is? Why would his target market matter?

It doesn't matter what Chris Reeve said or what his target market is, and I'm not saying that I know more about making knives than anyone.

No matter what Chris Reeve's intentions are, users report that the steel in his flagship knife doesn't seem to be holding an edge as well as other manufacturer's blades in the same steel.

When you respond to those claims by dressing it up as a huge positive and claim that it's so the "average user" can "field sharpen" his Sebenza, that's quite silly.

 

[asdf12345]

A sharpened piece of S35VN was the right tool to dig a hole...
Because that's all I had...
Again, you know nothing about me or what I do for a living. You're assuming my job responsibilities are the same as yours (they're not...).

Of course we talk about how we use our knives, it's a knife forum. Where did you think we were?

I've met a few construction workers who carry spydercos, benchmades, kershaws, etc... My boss even asked me where to buy a sebenza, fully aware of the price tag... Sure, sebenza's aren't everywhere, but don't assume it's a niche market. CRK has been in business for years...

Well we're not knife experts either... If we were, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Again, we are the average users...

If needing a polished edge wasn't part of your argument, then why did you even bring that up?

You're suggesting I'm playing the victim...
You are...

You came here with some broad/vague assumptions, and when people with real knowledge called you out, you pulled the whole "oh, I meant it in a different way" bullcrap... Grow up dude...

Nowhere did I say "I meant it in a different way". I meant what I said. Polished edges on a Sebenza have nothing to do with what I was talking about in that particular line of thought.

On a side note, I'm interested to know what circumstances led you to only having an expensive framelock folder to dig a hole in the ground, especially if you were on the job at the time. Was it a time critical situation in which there was no way you could have gotten a proper tool, but you had enough time to dig an entire hole with just a knife blade? How deep was this hole? I've dug a hole with a knife too, and I ditched the knife and got a plastic cup - it was a better digger than the knife. I'll admit, it does make for a dramatic story that shows me, the reader, how committed you are to 'hard using' your knives.

 

[bhyde]

Actually, it does matter what Chris stated in the context of your statement as you implied that it wasn't by design. There were no "apologists" involved as those words came directly from Chris. Will people defend the steel? Sure..many do not have an issue with it...Would people like something else..Personally, I would like to see S90V.

My comment was not about any kind of attack..If that was your perception, I apologize. My statement was for 1) clarity and 2) inspire some critical thinking of the source of information if that is all you have to go on.

All things being equal, we are each entitled to our opinions based on the information we have available.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

It doesn't matter what Chris Reeve said or what his target market is, and I'm not saying that I know more about making knives than anyone.

No matter what Chris Reeve's intentions are, users report that the steel in his flagship knife doesn't seem to be holding an edge as well as other manufacturer's blades in the same steel.

When you respond to those claims by dressing it up as a huge positive and claim that it's so the "average user" can "field sharpen" his Sebenza, that's quite silly.

Ask the wrong question and you will get the wrong answer. "Ease of sharpening" is relative to the knife (blade steel and heat treat) and to the task at hand. It is also relative to the skill of the sharpener.

If we don't have access to the person claiming poor edge-holding, then I don't believe them. Time and again, we find this complaint reduces to a burr. It comes from people who don't know what a burr is and how to remove it.

I use a Spyderco DoubleStuff to sharpen my BG-42 Sebenzas. The same coarse and fine ceramics as the Sharpmaker rods, in a 4"x1" stone in a leather slipcase that doubles as a strop. I use the Sharpmaker when I'm doing a few knives at home. The DoubleStuff carries more easily.

Ease of sharpening is only one reason for CRK's choice of steel and hardness. Work conditions are another. Steels have optimum heat treats for different purposes. Far from being a boutique item, the Sebenza is a work knife by design. CRK heat treats to avoid both chipping and rolling.

Please don't refer to opinions as silly because they don't agree with yours.

 

[rexromic]

Actually, it does matter what Chris stated in the context of your statement as you implied that it wasn't by design. There were no "apologists" involved as those words came directly from Chris. Will people defend the steel? Sure..many do not have an issue with it...Would people like something else..Personally, I would like to see S90V.

My comment was not about any kind of attack..If that was your perception, I apologize. My statement was for 1) clarity and 2) inspire some critical thinking of the source of information if that is all you have to go on.

All things being equal, we are each entitled to our opinions based on the information we have available.

Very well said.