M390 VS ZDP-189 Rope Cutting - Informal testing

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Boy, your persistent testing of this knife makes me more and more glad I bought one. Thanks for the great reviews.
 

Ankerson

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Boy, your persistent testing of this knife makes me more and more glad I bought one. Thanks for the great reviews.

It's the steel. :thumbup:

That's why I keep testing it and why I put it against ZDP, I like both steels a lot, both are excellent.

They are the top dogs IMO from what I have seen sofar.
 
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What part of the corn do you cut? Stalk? Husk? Kernels?
Stalk, some of the leaves, and the hair at the end. Most knives would be dulled out by the 2nd case(100 corn). My coworkers use plain jane knives with bad steels, but the thin blades lets them keep cutting even when the edge is dulled.

I tried using my ZT 0301, but the thick blade kept forcing me to muscle the blade through(even using twist cuts). I'm hoping my 755 will perform better. Even if most of the blade is quite thick, it does get thinner around the tip, which I should be able to use easily with such a short blade(which, in theory, should also let me exert more force).

And I do have my cutting glove on:thumbup:.
 
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jim you really are with the big boys now. hell i could feel minor pain after only 5o cuts on 3/8 sisal. will wear soft leather gloves in future. after your sterling reviews my 2nd 390 will be here mon. thanks a ton because you made a enormous effort.
dennis
 

Ankerson

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jim you really are with the big boys now. hell i could feel minor pain after only 5o cuts on 3/8 sisal. will wear soft leather gloves in future. after your sterling reviews my 2nd 390 will be here mon. thanks a ton because you made a enormous effort.
dennis

Thanks Dennis. :)
 
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i was going to order one until i found out it was the mini grip

YMMV, but I always liked the look and feel of the MiniGrip better. Because it effectively has full liners, it doesn't have that hollow snap that the full size Grips make when they close. Nice knives, if a little small. :thumbup:
 
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I only wish they did the Doug Ritter Large Griptilian in M390. I really can't wrap my hands around the available space on the small Griptilian
 
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Ankerson, have you considered trying this same test on harder stuff? I think it'd be nice to see.
 

Ankerson

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Ankerson, have you considered trying this same test on harder stuff? I think it'd be nice to see.

What do you mean by harder stuff?

The Manila rope I was using will tear the heck out of an edge.
 
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YMMV, but I always liked the look and feel of the MiniGrip better. Because it effectively has full liners, it doesn't have that hollow snap that the full size Grips make when they close. Nice knives, if a little small. :thumbup:

i have the m4 ritter grip and i find i like the size of it.. fills my hand perfect. i do like the full liners however but i dout the full size lacks any strength. i'm not going to be cutting concrete
 

nozh2002

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Problem I see here is wooden base. While you do control load caused by manila rope, affects of wooden base is more or less random, but impact wood cause on edge is harder then manila rope. Speed, force and part of edge which hits wooden base after rope was cut, most likely not under control.

Can you make some gadget similar to what I uses to make sure that it is only rope what affects the edge?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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I'm sold!!!

I went through about 6 cases of corn today with my 755 MPR. The thick blade did make the cutting more difficult than with my Gayle Bradley, but at the end of it the 755 could still slice paper. In fact, it can even push cut copy paper, if a little roughly. The edge retention might just be up there with CPM-M4.

I really hope more knife manufacturers will be using this steel in the future, and with thinner blades:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:.
 

Ankerson

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I'm sold!!!

I went through about 6 cases of corn today with my 755 MPR. The thick blade did make the cutting more difficult than with my Gayle Bradley, but at the end of it the 755 could still slice paper. In fact, it can even push cut copy paper, if a little roughly. The edge retention might just be up there with CPM-M4.

I really hope more knife manufacturers will be using this steel in the future, and with thinner blades:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:.


I don't want to say it. :D

I told you you would like it. :D :thumbup:

Like I keep saying, M390 is the one to watch IMO. :)
 
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Ankerson

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jim no matter how hard you work there are always detractors. ignore the arm chair warriors.
dennis

I am not worried. :D

Still nursing the blister on my thumb from the Spyderco, those last 100 cuts were a bear. :(

Had to put gloves on.
 
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Stalk, some of the leaves, and the hair at the end. Most knives would be dulled out by the 2nd case(100 corn). My coworkers use plain jane knives with bad steels, but the thin blades lets them keep cutting even when the edge is dulled.

I tried using my ZT 0301, but the thick blade kept forcing me to muscle the blade through(even using twist cuts). I'm hoping my 755 will perform better. Even if most of the blade is quite thick, it does get thinner around the tip, which I should be able to use easily with such a short blade(which, in theory, should also let me exert more force).

And I do have my cutting glove on:thumbup:.

Yep that fibrous stalk would be hell on edges.

jim no matter how hard you work there are always detractors. ignore the arm chair warriors.
dennis

Plus 1 to this Jim. Keep up the good work.
 
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Ankerson,, nice work, you can now see why I cut 5/8 rope for testing. In theory the same amount of work to get the same result but you use less length so in the end costs a little less. Also saw the comment about cutting on a board skewing the results. Not so, as long as you use the same wood and cutting motion the results will be repeatable. With this kind of testing there are so many varaibles that we are looking for big differences. You also develop a sense pretty quick on how a knife is going to perform with out doing a full out test to completely dull. This year I obtained some samples of M390 and ELMAX at the Oregon show. I have made several knives from each working on the optimum heat treat. I have also used an M390 blade on a hunting trip with great edge holding, corrosion resistance and very good toughness. I will have more to say when I have a little more experience but right I think both of these steels have great potential. I would like to know the hardness of your M390 blade. I would test it for you if you want to send it out to me, contact info on my website. I would guess it is about 60, and if so I would say that up against ZDP 189 at probably a much higher hardness that this is very good performance. My own testing so far would mirror your results. Some more background for those who might be interested. Both M390 and ElMAX are Bohler-Uddeholm (BU) steels . The 390 is made in Austria and the ELMAX made in Sweden. Both are particle base steels like the CPM steels. BU says they are third generation which means smaller grain and very clean. They were developed for the plastics industry, like the Crucible steels. Given the recent scare with Crucible it is nice to have and alternate source for our high Vanadium knife steels. I have pushed the hardness up to 62 on both ELMAX and M390 and with a thin grind blade (.008 or so) behind the edge have not seen any concern with chipping. BU is now making an effort to have these steels available in knifemaker thickness and also to provide guidance and support on heat treat for their products. For the custom guys, Chuck at Alpha Knife Supply is stocking both M390 and ELMAX. I would also share heat treat info via e mail . Good work Ankerson, keep it up.. Phil
 

Ankerson

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Mr. Wilson,

Thank you so much for your kind comments, that means a lot coming from you. :)

Yes I will send the knife to you on Monday. :thumbup:

It was a lot of work as you know very well. :eek:

I also believe M390 has a lot of potential as it seems to me that it has all the good things that are needed and none of the bad things that aren't.


Thank You,

Jim




Ankerson,, nice work, you can now see why I cut 5/8 rope for testing. In theory the same amount of work to get the same result but you use less length so in the end costs a little less. Also saw the comment about cutting on a board skewing the results. Not so, as long as you use the same wood and cutting motion the results will be repeatable. With this kind of testing there are so many varaibles that we are looking for big differences. You also develop a sense pretty quick on how a knife is going to perform with out doing a full out test to completely dull. This year I obtained some samples of M390 and ELMAX at the Oregon show. I have made several knives from each working on the optimum heat treat. I have also used an M390 blade on a hunting trip with great edge holding, corrosion resistance and very good toughness. I will have more to say when I have a little more experience but right I think both of these steels have great potential. I would like to know the hardness of your M390 blade. I would test it for you if you want to send it out to me, contact info on my website. I would guess it is about 60, and if so I would say that up against ZDP 189 at probably a much higher hardness that this is very good performance. My own testing so far would mirror your results. Some more background for those who might be interested. Both M390 and ElMAX are Bohler-Uddeholm (BU) steels . The 390 is made in Austria and the ELMAX made in Sweden. Both are particle base steels like the CPM steels. BU says they are third generation which means smaller grain and very clean. They were developed for the plastics industry, like the Crucible steels. Given the recent scare with Crucible it is nice to have and alternate source for our high Vanadium knife steels. I have pushed the hardness up to 62 on both ELMAX and M390 and with a thin grind blade (.008 or so) behind the edge have not seen any concern with chipping. BU is now making an effort to have these steels available in knifemaker thickness and also to provide guidance and support on heat treat for their products. For the custom guys, Chuck at Alpha Knife Supply is stocking both M390 and ELMAX. I would also share heat treat info via e mail . Good work Ankerson, keep it up.. Phil
 
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thanks to phil wilson for his comments. this man is legendary for his work with the powder alloys. as sal glasser remarked a while back,"when phil speaks i listen"
 
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