M4 Military....Sadly disappointed Part 2

The thing I love about the internut is that in a moment of indiscretion you can permanently, and irremediably, damage a company or product, and it just goes on forever. Soon it spreads to other fora, and before you know it, it's a "fact," because on the internet, "facts" really is the plural of "anecdote." Gawsh, I love today's technology. :(

JNewll and everyone else!

I love Spyderco and I love the Military! It's the best value for the dollar on the market..Period! I only had 2 before the M4. I love my Militarys. I was in no way bashing Spyderco! Just stating my observation on this knife, they were not all meant to be taken bad. For that I was basically called a moron and personally attacked. I pre ordered a Para2 in carpenter cts20 steel...I'm sure I will post nothing but greatnes! NO FACEPALM here. I got my M4 and I will keep it, carry it and eventually LOVE IT! Maybe I was slammmed by those that didn't get one?
 
JNewll and everyone else!

I love Spyderco and I love the Military! It's the best value for the dollar on the market..Period! I only had 2 before the M4. I love my Militarys. I was in no way bashing Spyderco! Just stating my observation on this knife, they were not all meant to be taken bad. For that I was basically called a moron and personally attacked. I pre ordered a Para2 in carpenter cts20 steel...I'm sure I will post nothing but greatnes! NO FACEPALM here. I got my M4 and I will keep it, carry it and eventually LOVE IT! Maybe I was slammmed by those that didn't get one?

It could have been the first post on bladefoums is a whine, maybe not. Gotta get me a smg.
 
I'm a predominantly Spyderco owner but I get a slight distaste in my mouth at the pack of dogs syndrome. I guess it's best (safer?) not to post anything but praise and satisfaction and stay silent and alone when you don't feel good about what you received. Praise is encouraged while dissatisfaction or disappointment requires you quietly send it in and never say anything about it until you get your knife back a few extra bucks and a few extra weeks later and when it is returned you're obligated to praise the customer service in a post that will invariably fill up a page or two about your awesome 'experience'.

I agree some gripes may seem petty but what really gets me more than petty gripes or even trolls are several pages from the Forum police. I might not make any new friends and may even lose a few but I'm of the belief that the well intended here can perpetuate this sort of thread into infamy when they are best left to comment on then let fade away . . .

Time will tell how the M4 Millie turns out after some use. Comparisons to other Spydercos also seem fair to me. For instance, I'm a little confused as to why the blade work on the M4 Gayle Bradley can be so refined while the opposite is true on the M4 Military. When you inspect each side by side, the machining of the GB blade is smooth and just plain refined looking which lends itself to the custom level smoothness of the GB action while the Military appears and in fact is, striated and appears to be grinded with much coarser wheels. I believe the so called "gritty" action reported on the M4 Military is all due to the coarse blade grind and the ball rubbing across the coarse grained striations on the tang.

Is it unfair to ask why a Spyderco fan can't expect the same blade work refinement from the M4 Military as we get with the Gayle Bradley?
 
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I'm a predominantly Spyderco owner but I get a slight distaste in my mouth at the pack of dogs syndrome.
Yes, same here. But I'm a bit surprised to see it, I always thought the Spyderco forum to be a vary fair one...
 
I'm a predominantly Spyderco owner but I get a slight distaste in my mouth at the pack of dogs syndrome. I guess it's best (safer?) not to post anything but praise and satisfaction and stay silent and alone when you don't feel good about what you received. Praise is encouraged while dissatisfaction or disappointment requires you quietly send it in and never say anything about it until you get your knife back a few extra bucks and a few extra weeks later and when it is returned you're obligated to praise the customer service in a post that will invariably fill up a page or two about your awesome 'experience'.

I agree some gripes may seem petty but what really gets me more than petty gripes or even trolls are several pages from the Forum police. I might not make any new friends and may even lose a few but I'm of the belief that the well intended here can perpetuate this sort of thread into infamy when they are best left to comment on then let fade away . . .

Time will tell how the M4 Millie turns out after some use. Comparisons to other Spydercos also seem fair to me. For instance, I'm a little confused as to why the blade work on the M4 Gayle Bradley can be so refined while the opposite is true on the M4 Military. When you inspect each side by side, the machining of the GB blade is smooth and just plain refined looking which lends itself to the custom level smoothness of the GB action while the Military appears and in fact is, striated and appears to be grinded with much coarser wheels. I believe the so called "gritty" action reported on the M4 Military is all due to the coarse blade grind and the ball rubbing across the coarse grained striations on the tang.

Is it unfair to ask why a Spyderco fan can't expect the same blade work refinement from the M4 Military as we get with the Gayle Bradley?


I thank you reek for speaking your mind. I think that as spyderco fans, and as people who end up loving this company in all respects get tunnel vision, and that all versions and everything that comes out would be perfect or is awesome etc. I can contest 1/3 of my blades of over 20 spydercos, had problems. 4 of which had to be replaced by spyderco.
[eg TOTALLY not center pacific salt, as to the point of completely rubbing off the finish on the black/black. VERY warped ceramic stones where it looked like a sea-saw on the table, such dull knives [endura 4 to be exact in this one] that you thought they were just showcase knives with blunted ends. I literally ran the knife with pressure against my finger and all it left was a bit of pink from the pressure.].

With that being said, as fans, I think we need to get into reality that not all spydercos are perfect, or will be. They have excellent QC and CS, to combat this. And there are times when knives look good on paper but when you get it, it just doesnt make you happy. And I think peoples perspective, given it is stated in a such way that its not totally whiney, or whatever it may be like "my knife is too stiff I hate spyderco its shit blah blah" those kind of comments, that can easily be rectified by reading around - use oil :p - I understand the "hatred" towards those posts. But If a person is giving their honest opinion with reasons to back it up as to why they don't like it, I think its as valid if not more [because it may be more rare] than a "I love this knife because....".

As I close up this essay, I would like to, again thank you for making that point reeek.
 
Is it unfair to ask why a Spyderco fan can't expect the same blade work refinement from the M4 Military as we get with the Gayle Bradley?

Isn't the Gayle Bradley blade ground in Taiwan whereas the Military's M4 ground in the USA? You might have your answer right there.
 
Isn't the Gayle Bradley blade ground in Taiwan whereas the Military's M4 ground in the USA? You might have your answer right there.

Ouch :(

For the record my M4 Mili has none of the problems listed, blade is centered, action is very smooth, detent slides right along without falling in and out of the rough grind lines, has NOT had the blade excessively ground away from sharpening and....


It also made me bacon for breakfast!!! :D

(really mine is perfect, maybe I got one of the "better" ones or I might have no clue what to look for in fit and finish?)
 
Is it unfair to ask why a Spyderco fan can't expect the same blade work refinement from the M4 Military as we get with the Gayle Bradley?

No. But it is unfair to base all of your judgement on those two particular knives that you own.
 
No. But it is unfair to base all of your judgement on those two particular knives that you own.




You also might have a giant chip on your shoulder. Does the Taiwan maker include one with every knife?

I don't have a chip on my sholder, I don't even own any knives in M4. Both of my spyderco's from Taiwan and USA are perfect. Just suggesting that maybe the Taiwan grinders are better or have more experience with grinding the M4.
 
I felt compelled to keep the comparison between the GB and the Millie M4 in order to compare CPM M4 to CPM M4. I was trying to preempt someone from coming back and using the M4 hardness as an excuse for grind burn and deep striations on the Military M4.

Look at these close ups:
DSC05271.jpg

DSC05229.jpg

DSC03476.jpg

DSC03478.jpg



No. But it is unfair to base all of your judgement on those two particular knives that you own.
 
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@hoopster: My apologies, you quoted me before my edit. I should have thought my statement through before posting that drivel. :o
 
@hoopster: My apologies, you quoted me before my edit. I should have thought my statement through before posting that drivel. :o

No apology necessary. I didn't take it personal, just wanted to clarify my thoughts on the matter. :thumbup:
 
Reek, those pictures are interesting. The Military looks like the grit of whatever they used (belt, stone?) was much coarser and the finish goes in two different directions. The picture of the Gayle bradley looks closer to the finish on my Sages and Military in s30v.
 
FWIW I checked my M4 millie against my Orange S30v millie and the blades, other then the S30v/M4 markings are virtually identical. If nothing else the M4 is lightly better.

My GB is not nearly as polished ast Reeek's. It's actually less fine than either of the Millies. Given that they are all done by hand I would expect some variation from knife to knife regardless of the blade material or point of manufacture.

Also in regards to the OP first post about the G-10 (I'm still not sure what his compaint was) the G-10 on my M4 is identical to the G-10 on my orange Millie, except for the color. I can't tell any difference in texture at all.
 
I felt compelled to keep the comparison between the GB and the Millie M4 in order to compare CPM M4 to CPM M4. I was trying to preempt someone from coming back and using the M4 hardness as an excuse for grind burn and deep striations on the Military M4.

Look at these close ups:
DSC05271.jpg

DSC05229.jpg

DSC03476.jpg

DSC03478.jpg

I have both knives. The GB has a higher quality of fit and finish. I admire that, but don't require it. The Military has a courser finish, but that doesn't affect performance. I believe Military was designed and executed to be a tool for military personnel, not an object of beauty. The Military is the superior design, IMO, so I prefer it. Specifically, the Military's lock is easier to operate, and the Military's handle is more comfortable--I find the proud liners of the GB less comfortable.

But I'm guessing the point of you posting the photos is to ask, how can the Taiwanese factory produce such a fit and finish at such a low price? It seems pretty staightforward to me. The manufacturing costs are lower there, which means that for the same or even lower price, Taiwan can afford to take the time it takes to put a better polish and finish on every aspect of the knife. I could be wrong, but I doubt its a difference in the talent of the cutlers in the two countries. For example, your GB looks like it was ground with a finer grit (or at least finished with a finer grit.) A finer grit takes longer to cut steel. Bottom line: if you want GB fit of finish from the United States, you have to pay Chris Reeve prices. That rubs some people the wrong way, but it's reality.

The fit and finish on my GB is amazing. But it came with a hidden problem. There was not enough "spring" in the lockbar. Now, after use and wear, the lockbar no longer contacts the tang, and the result is up and down play. I will have to disassemble the knife, and use Kentucky windage to bend it so that it will travel farther and eliminate the play. I mention this not to complain, but to illustrate that perhaps the Taiwan knives aren't all perfect.
 
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FWIW I checked my M4 millie against my Orange S30v millie and the blades, other then the S30v/M4 markings are virtually identical. If nothing else the M4 is lightly better.

Also in regards to the OP first post about the G-10 (I'm still not sure what his compaint was) the G-10 on my M4 is identical to the G-10 on my orange Millie, except for the color. I can't tell any difference in texture at all.

The grind on my M4 Millie is the same as my Orange, and I belveive it is the same grit as I've seen on the other Militarys I've had. The G-10 is also the same.

Edit: and I just compared my GB side by side with my Millies, and the finish on the GB blade looks a little courser than on the Millies.
 
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