MAD DOG KNIVES-YOUR OPINION

Bob, thanks for the explanation of your choil comment.

To everyone, two words: Arizona Hunter.

I think I was looking for a knife for the same sort of uses that Bob was. I looked at the specs for the Lab Rat and the P. ATAK, but decided that they were too small -- I have a 3.5 - 4 inch folder on me most all the time (as many of us on these forums seem to), so a knife with a blade only an inch or so longer wasn't all that useful to me, so I went the next size up -- and found an Arizona Hunter (which a dealer actually had a couple of -- I ordered it last thursday and it was delivered today and sits next to me as I type this).

I haven't seen anyone mention this knife, and I don't really know why. It seems like a great, small camping knife. Its sturdy enough to do some chopping, but small enough (6 inch blade 10.5 inches overall) to not take up much room in a pack or on a belt.

In fact, "sturdy" was my first thought upon pulling it out of its sheath. This very sturdiness is what makes it a poor choice for the kitchen -- I don't even think most cleavers have 1/4 inch spines, but for myself, if I have to do kitchen type stuff somewhere other than my kitchen, then I know I can rely on my folder (EDI Genesis at the moment). Even if I didn't, the AZ Hunter *could* do kitchen duty, it just wouldn't be optimal.

Since I haven't seen anyone else do it, I'd like to recommend the AZ Hunter by Mad Dog. Everyone says how comfortable the handles are on Mad Dog knives and this knife is no exception. The balance point is right at the guard, so if you hold the handle, it feels a little point-heavy so choping works well. If you choke up, putting the guard in between the index and middle fingers, with the index finger on the choil, the balance point is *in* your hand, so there's a great deal of control to the blade (this is something I didn't really appreaciate until I actually held this knife).

So if you think the ATAK is too big and the Pygmy ATAK and Rat family are too small, check out the Arizona Hunter.
 
OK, confession time, I have turned into a serious MD fan. Along with the Pygmy ATAK I
also have the previously mentioned Operator, ATAK and a Mirage Hunter. The Mirage
Hunter is almost the same size as the Arizona Hunter.. I find the Pygmy ATAK is better
sized for daily carry than the Hunter series. When I know there will be extra heavy
cardboard slicing duty, I use the larger knife. There are days when I go through six pallets
of card board. The Mirage Hunter is perfect in size, cutting ability and edge holding for this.
The rest of the time, the smaller Pygmy ATAK is much easier to live with as it does not
interfere with my vehicle seats, etc. The Pygmy ATAK is no slouch for dealing with the
dreaded cardboard demon either.

Colin
 
Bald1,

Good point about thin slicing on the grill .. problem is, between me and my 12 year old, we don't do much thin stuff ... heapin' helpin' portions ....

I agree that a thin knife has its place, and in fact, I'm going on the Rat Thing waiting list. But that is a completely different blade with a completely different mission, in my mind: as a defensive carry knife in an urban area, either alone or as back up to my Glock or my .45 ...; or as a companion to either my full-size ATAK or my Taiho.

Mr. McClung recently stated that the ideal combination would be a full-size ATAK and a 3/16" Pygmy ATAK. He's made at least one of the skinny Pygmies and it got rave reviews from its new owner on another forum.

The Dog himself said that the original intent of the 1/4" pATAK was to make a knife as indestructible as he could produce. I got no problem with that. Different strokes for different folks.

By the way, I ain't eloquent, guyz .. I just gotta big mouth ....
 
I'm the guy with the skinny Pygmy (no jokes please, it's very embarassing). For more info, see my post in the MD forum on the "Other Forum".

I still haven't managed to use it much, but once I realized that I wouldn't be chopping much with it, I thinned the edge and put a spooky-sharp edge on it. I can't wait to put it to good use, but I've already cut up everything in the house! Maybe I'll dismantle that big TV box in the garage....
 
I bought a Mad Dog originally after just examing the knife and materials at a local gun/knife shop. It was only after I purchased it (way after) did I find out more about the inner workings, further convincing me that I had made the right choice for my needs.

I was looking for a bad-to-the-bone no compromise field knife with a really good sheath. I wanted tool steel and something that could be given a really good edge and hold it. I wanted something that I just could not hurt. The Mad Dog (ATAK) seemed to fit the bill. It didn't hurt that the local place that carried them blew the only one the had in stock out at something crazy like $225 (this was a while back).

While I can't claim to have traveled the world with it, I've traveled the back country quite a bit doing all the things you maybe should not do with a knife: digging, prying with the point, etc. I've done all the wrong things to care for it -- when it's dirty I wash it in the sink with dish soap and drown the thing in WD40 or CLP. Hardly a model for taking care of a working knife, but the thing survives onward.

I too have gotten polish marks in the chrome from the sheathing but the thing hasn't rusted yet, and I've been guilty of "putting it away wet" a few times in the field.

I thought the handle might be a little goofy at first but once you stop looking at it and start using it, you appreciate it.

This spring I picked up an Pygmy ATAK as more of a "camp knife", something a little more handy than a big ATAK. I use the thing all the time, I take it along on every opportunity. Great utility knife but is not a do-all, either.

I carry a folder all the time, I have all kinds of them (even one from you Les!), although I tend to favor the Sebenza. However if I'm going out in the field, I'll take one of the Mad Dogs. All the hype and whatnot aside, you just can't hurt them and they do everything they are supposed to do, and well.

I think Thaddeus touched upon the sheaths and I think it's worth bringing up again -- they are fantastic. I don't know much about making Kydex but the stuff MD uses is really good quality stuff. I've seen other Kydex stuff since and either the quality of the Kydex doesn't seem the same or it is almost gimmicky with pushbuttons and the like. Keep mine simple, please.

MD knives are indeed expensive, but I have a box of knives accumulated over the years that will probably never get touched again. Add up the money spent on them (each individually much cheaper) and I could have several Mad Dogs.

I certainly don't think they are better than anything else, I just think for _my_ needs, they fit the bill 110%.

Your mileage may vary. It is unfortunate that they are so difficult to find due to low production and that fanatical following that tend to snatch up anything available.


--Doug
 
Talk about odd things happening. Today one of my TSgts who I have teaching self-aid "buddy" care during an ongoing exercise, shows up with an ATAK strapped to his alice harness! Got a chance to handle the thing. Now keep in mind that I'd never even seen or handled a MD knife until my pATAK II arrived.
After handling it I think Joel may have hit on something.... The full ATAK is great but perhaps too big...the Arizona Hunter has a 6" blade compared to the pATAK's 4.9". The OAL is 10.5" versus 9.1 though. Joe and others said it earlier too...I may have just jumped at the first available MD knife too quickly and gotten one that doesn't fully match my needs.

Well I'm curious. If I decide I have indeed got the wrong model for my needs, what's my best course of action? Sell the pATAK II here on the forums and then find a dealer who has the "right" model in stock for me? Or trade it in to a MD dealer? Your counsel, advice and wisdom is solicited.

-=[Bob]=-
 
Bob --

Whatever you decide to do, I'm sure you could do it quickly. I would image that a dealer would be like trying to use your car for a trade in -- painless, but not the best deal.

If you post an ad in the forums it will sell quickly, people are looking for them. In fact, I'd be interested in it!

The only problem will be trying to find another model, as the dealers are pretty dry and they seem to go as quickly as they come in.

I'm looking for a Wild Thing and will pay up to $300 for a good used one (or I'll pay retail for a new one if a dealer has one somewhere!).

--Doug
 
Doug,

You've got first "dibs" on the pATAK II if I decide to go that way.... after handling that ATAK today, I feel I ought to be able to make a decision within the week.

I think you're probably right about selling seperate rather than trading in too.

thanks,

-=[Bob]=-
 
Bob: normally I don't think I would blow $300+ on a knife I'd never handled. However, given the scarcity of Mad Dog knives right now, I figured that if I didn't like the AZ Hunter, I'd be able to sell it without much touble (I *do* like it, its not for sale).

I'd guess that if you put a For Sale note in the appropriate areas of this and that other forum, you would have your money back in short order and be able to buy a different knife, whereas a dealer wouldn't really gain too much by trading with you.
 
Whew! You guys weren't kidding. The pATAK II is sold and it went F-A-S-T. I missed by a few days getting a new AZ Hunter...dealer was sold out. But I'll keep looking and include a non-sharpened false edge Wild Thing and even an ATAK in my search.

BTW I'm seriously considering getting an ATAK for my active duty son. Can anyone here clue me in on how I'd arrange that with Mad Dog to take advantage of his military priorities (and pricing)? I'd want it shipped direct to my son's duty address.

-=[Bob]=-
 
I think that the Wild Thing would serve you beautifully.

I am waiting in heated anticipation for the 3/16 inch Wild Thing that Kevin promised to make. That will flat out be my ultimate Mad Dog. Quick little fighter!

thaddeus
 
Boy, where have I been? Even had I seen this thread earlier, I doubt I'd have posted, as I am not experienced enough with various fixed blades to comment.

But I can contribute:
If Bob, Joe or Les promise an objective and factual eval (such as Bob has done with the PATAK II), I'll contribute the Mad Dog knife to be tested and take full liability for any damage to it. To this end, I have a pATAK, a pATAK II and an ATAKII that I would be willing to risk.

Any takers?
Rich Lucibella
 
Actually, Rich, we are thinking about doing a testing comparison between the ATAK, INFI Battle Mistress, and some other big knives, and posting the results.

How does this sound to you?

Spark
 
Spark-
I think it's even better to do a head to head comparison. I'll submit hte ATAK II if you wish.
Rich
 
Head to head is the way to go. I was actually hoping Les would do it also, so he could firsthand test it against the Brend et.al. But against the Busse and the like is great, too.

One thing, though. The battle Mistress is a much larger knife than the ATAK. ATAK vs. Steel Heart is definitely an apples-to-apples, ATAK vs. Battle Mistress we can still learn a lot, but the Battle Mistress's size puts it one class above I think.

I'll be looking forward to the results, Spark. Have you guys given any thought to what kinds of tests you're going to do?

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com

[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 11-01-98).]
 
Battle Mistress against ATAK would be difficult in the chopping department because of the weight and length difference, but in most every other department you could test them pretty equally (in edge holding etc).
The key that I want to see is the comparison of what you get for your money. In that regard, it is fair to test the Battle Mistress against the even more expensive ATAK. It would not be a realistic test to see the TUSK against the Mistress, for instance, because I for one can never afford a TUSK, and it would only be expected to be getting a better knife for three times the price. I for one want to see the ATAK against the Battle Mistress because they are close in price and design goal, and I am torn between the two. I love my ATAK, but I _might_ not mind carrying the little extra weight and length of the Mistress for the same or less money, if it ends up being as good as the ads proclaim.
In many regards the ATAK and Mistress are very comparable, in all but the size advantage of the Mistress, IMHO, and would be a very good test that I look forward to seeing.
 
Thad-
Then we should compare the ATAK against the large Sebenza?

I say compare like sized knives. The potential buyer knows how to compare dollars.
Rich
 
I see your guys' point, but where I am coming from, as a college student who can only afford to own one or the other, and where the price does make a big difference, I am going to own _either_ a Mistress _or_ an ATAK, and I am going to make one or the other my _only_ "camping, chopping, outdoor hacking, 'combat' knife". If the Mistress is really that cool (Cool enough to beat my ATAK? That would be amazing!), then I will sell my ATAK, because in my catagory of use, they are designed for exactly the same role, and there is no point to owning both. To me, it is very important how the two compare, because ultimatly that will determine which ONE I own and which one I strap on when I go camping. In my way of seeing it, these two are exactly comparable knives, comparable price, comaprable use, and designed for the same basic niche according to the makers' marketing and claims.


Ps- One of the things that had been going through my head that I haven't expressed yet is that many moons ago on recdotknives.com, Earl (with Kevin's support I believe) put up a challenge that said that he would pay $500 to anyone that brought a knife that could outchop the ATAK, no matter what size. He claimed to have even won a Cold Steel Kukri in that challenge, because the challenger had to give up his knife if he lost. That means that an ATAK chops better than a big, long, heavy, curvy Kukri, and that Earl and Kevin were sure enough of the ATAKs chopping ability that they were not intimidated by larger knives. And, I might add, they must have been right, because they never lost that challenge! I am not surprised by this, my ATAK chops like nothing else, and is the best combat grade blade that I have ever experienced. That is why I want to see it go up against the next knife that claims to be the best. On that note, I figure that any knife, even one a bit larger, should be able to go up against an ATAK and be challenged in the chopping department. I am not trying to argue against the ATAK at all, (I even expect it to win!), I am just saying that I see them as filling the same niche, and that size has never been an issue against the ATAK before. I love my ATAK, and if someone can make a knife that can outchop it, as well as outdo it in other departments, then all I have to say is : "Wow!".


Dr. Ron Hood, an Ex-Green Beret and outdoor survival teacher, also chose the INFI Battle Mistress over the ATAK, and when he was specifically asked why, he gave some compelling reasons. He told me that he had carried a couple of ATAKs and liked the Mistress better for a few reasons that I would rather not go into. This is another thing that has eaten away at me for a long time, and has made me want to see the Mistress for myself and compare it directly to the ATAK. Dr. Hood seemed to have a lot of respect for the ATAK, and saw it as a very comparable knife in the same catagory as the Mistress, but to my surprise he likes the Mistress better and carries it as his do-all field knife, performing both agile cooking tasks as well as shelter building and such. Many others at the time were also curious about the two compared to each other.

In short, I would like to see them go head to head, because ultimatly, I will be deciding which one, out of those two knives exclusilvely, will be strapped to my hip when I go out into the woods.

Who am I kidding though, because you and I both know that I will end up having to buy a Mistress and test it for myself head to head against my own ATAK anyway, then sell the one that loses the contest.
smile.gif


JMHO,
thaddeus



[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited 11-02-98).]
 
Earl's challenge is a bit of a Red Herring as chopping ability is going to factor in huge here.

There is no way an ATAK could dominate in regards to chopping as it just does not have the required specialized blade shape.

However if it was say Kevin doing the chopping with the ATAK he would have a huge advantage as it would almost be an extension of his hand due to his experience.

In any case, just get an unserrated TUSK. It would obviously be a better chopper and then the $500 reward would reduce the price of the TUSK to a reasonable level
smile.gif


Anyway, vs the Battle Mistress the biggest advantage of the ATAK has to be its handle. Maybe this could lead to being able to use it harder for longer, thus actually pulling it ahead of the Battle Mistress chopping wise. It is certainly much more durable and chemically resistant.

Will Busse partially serrate his blades? If not then for example an ATAK2 would have a very large advantage over the Battle Mistress in regards to cutting/slicing very hard synthetics.

I am very much looking forward to any head to head between the two. I would also love to see some other top production blades (Trailmaster) compared. It would be interesting to see just how much better the "custom" blade is. And of course very interesting if it turned out not to be.

-Cliff
 
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