Made In China...

Dan57 said:
I don't agree with #3. There are Chinese companies producing high end knives. Carson Lab has experienced some small amount of publicity here in the past, and from what I could tell, their knives were equal in quality and materials to those from ZT or Spyderco. (Maybe not Chris Reeve.) And there are probably other companies that I don't know about. With China's huge population and growing upper and middle classes, it's just not necessary for them to advertise outside the country.
Also, companies that used to only make fakes and copies, (Kevin John and the like,) now also make some original designs. Which are, again, comparable in quality to high end American production knives. (And so are the fakes, from what the people who actually own them say.)
#1 is also, I think, a bit of an exaggeration.
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I'd love to see a Chinese knife made to the same quality control standards as high-end American knives, especially on the caliber of CRK or Benchmade. Some Taiwanese knives come close, but I'm not aware of a Chinese knife made to similar specifications.

Ultimately, it's not so much that Chinese knives are bad quality. It's more about supporting local and domestic knife manufacturers and decent labor practices. Unfortunately, some people do not care and simply want to save a few dollars. Personally, I'd rather pay a little more, receive great domestic warranty servicing, and help a decently treated employee in a nearby community or state put food on their table.
 
What knives we like is largely an emotional decision, based on a number of aesthetic, as well as intangible criteria.
Chinese knives, or any Chinese products, for that matter, don't make me happy.
I'll not buy any, given a choice.
You don't have to defend your choices any more than I mine.
 
jimh0220 said:
I don't understand the fascination with the 'Made In' discussion any more. If you are on this site, you own Chinese made items. Your appliances are all at least partially made with parts from all over the world. We obsess with China, but revere Japan, Scandinavia, Italy, Germany, etc. All foreign made knives have the same potential to make outstanding products in the hands of individuals properly trained, and companies with high quality control standards. The country where the products come from is not the factor. American companies are just as capable of turning out crap these days...
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I am going to quibble with your post.

The reverence for foreign knives made in Japan or Europe has to do in large part with ethics. Ethics in that Chinese cutlery concerns only have them if they are imposed by a third party.

If someone like Spyderco forces them to, Chinese manufacturers can make a decent product, though no one in this small industry is going to tell us about their reject rate. Buck is instructive in that regard, largely washing their hands of the Chinese knife industry.

Without that Western corporate oversight, it readily seems to be the case that what you will get are a bunch of counterfeits or close copies, made with mystery "steel" that will not perform as long or as well as you would expect of a decent knife. You very well might not get what you paid for, even at $10.00. For that cash, you absolutely know what you have in an Opinel, Mora, etc. The question then becomes why buy a Byrd when I can buy a Japanese made Spydie? The odds of getting a bad Byrd are astronomically higher than those of getting a bad Endura. The Japanese steel and knife industries are self-enforcing on the ethics of good business.

My iPad may be assembled in China, but it's Apple's fanatical attention to detail and corporate integrity that make it worth something. It's Chinese assemblage only affords Apple a few percentage points more profit. If you went and bought a Chinese knock off of the iPad in Shanghai, you'd pay too much if you forked over even 10 yuan.

I'd rather have one $100 folding knife made by a reputable company than ten $10.00 Chinese beaters.
 
22-rimfire said:
Next I purchased some Frost Cutlery folders just to get a feel of where they are quality wise about a year ago. They seem to be improving on the fit and finish, but still essentially the same quality. I hear good things about Rough Rider knives. Will eventually buy a couple and see how they are.
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Rough Riders are not bad if you keep your expectations reasonable.
Like you, I heard good things, so I tried 4 or 5 in the $10-15 range that looked appealing. Kept 2 of them and traded or gave the others away.

I don't think you can make broad sweeping judgements any more simply because it was made in China.
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The nice thing about sweeping judgments is you're bound to be partially right :D. Problem is that with complex subjects, nothing is really accomplished by them.
I would never argue with someone who chooses not to buy a "made in China" product for personal reasons.
But to dismiss everything they make for quality reasons is somewhat naive.
 
Moondrop said:
And my last laptop lasted 2.5 whole years before quitting and has a sticker on the bottom that says, "Made in China". Not a hard drive crash; the computer just quit. My laptop before that lasted a few years longer and, yep, said Made In China on the bottom. Meanwhile, my sister's old laptop, which is older than both of those laptops and which I used until I got my current one says, "Made in Malaysia" on the bottom and it's still chugging along. Has had the hard drive replaced exactly once. All three laptops are from the same manufacturer, btw. Electronics might not be a great example...
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In this case it's not a quality issue but programmed obsolency. But this is another story...
 
Alann45 said:
The nice thing about sweeping judgments is you're bound to be partially right :D. Problem is that with complex subjects, nothing is really accomplished by them.
I would never argue with someone who chooses not to buy a "made in China" product for personal reasons.
But to dismiss everything they make for quality reasons is somewhat naive.
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Well said.
 
It depends on the maker and circumstances. One of the more inventive knives in my collection is a PE Benchmade Vex; with a rounded spine, solid G-10, beautifully coated frame and 8CR13 blade, there's no doubt this is a keeper...but it's the only one current.

I've given Pika II's to good friends that use them daily and think very highly of them, and frankly were surprised at the build quality. (The company, Benchmade, has strict standards; of every one of the knives I've handled none had any problems.)

And yet we have a large problem with other companies over there making blatant, if not near lookalikes; some so close that the average buyer without knowledge wouldn't know the difference between 'Real Vs. Memorex', and that's the dark side of the equation. Money trading hands speaks volumes, never mind the quality or safety of these products.

So, I would offer the old formula: "KnowYourProduct" and yes, I would buy a Chinese-made knife if a good one came along worth looking at.
 
There are good budget knives coming out of China, however, whilst I'm sure they could do it if they wanted to, it's more difficult for them to move upmarket because people don't look at a MIC knife and think "high quality".

Of course, as people have observed, people used to say the same thing about Japan, and look where they are now.
 
I buy USA due to moral issues. I also served this country due to moral issues. And I will also die for this country due to moral issues. BOTTOM LINE, I LOVE MY COUNTRY!!!
 
Look at anything A.G. Russell puts his name on. It far out classes anything coming out of a certain Pennsylvania knife company that is held up as the ultimate traditional American made knife.
 
Yes, we all own MIC products, that's why we care where our knives are made! I read once that the problem with setting up factories in China is that they will make your products to your specifications at first, to get you sucked in. Then later they will start substituting cheaper materials, cutting corners, etc, so they are making more profit. If they get busted they will fire some middle level manager and blame him for the problem. They fix it up for a while, then when they think you aren't paying as much attention again, they will do it all over again. Of course the guy they fired goes down the street and gets a new job somewhere else, because he has done exactly what he was meant to do, increase the companies profits. Apparently they are relentlessly rapacious, and by the time you have set up factories there, you have so much invested that its a PITA to move.
 
Resale on made in China whether stigma or lacking quality, generally is poor. China knives don't hold their value generally, and some second hand dealers will not deal or trade in in the junk anymore. I had a multitool made in China only to tightly grip and snap the pliers sending shards in several directions. Yes, soft cheap mystery steel that wasn't heat treated properly. A trip to the hospital for stitches. Had I paid more money for a USA made multitool this would have been unlikely. Yes, I agree that companies like MIC Benchmade have their people over there watching the quality control and the higher end companies have had good success holding prices down while keeping quality standards up. Though, given the choice I will pay more for a USA made Benchmade rather than the budget priced one from China.
 
China's primary claim to infamy is the number of blatant ripoffs coming from there. Secondmost is the large number of really bad knives coming from there. The first is just wrong, the second, in my opinion, is just a bad business model...taints the whole country in terms of cutlery. I suppose some crappy knives are made in the USA, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, and Switzerland...I suppose...but other than the USA made ones, you won't see them here because all of those countries (USA included) value their reputation sufficiently to NOT subscribe to the cheap knife for a cheap price model.

China is just as capable of making a good product as any other country. So too presumably would be Pakistan...and presumably somebody in Pakistan is selling a good knife...probably for internal sale.

China doesn't do it enough...Pakistan hardly ever bothers at all.
 
I have been thinking about this a lot.
The fact that American manufacturing has been/is being allowed to die is a subject that weighs heavily on me, because that is how I have made my living my entire working life, as did my Father. In a perfect world everything I buy would be labeled "Made in USA". But that ain't the reality.
If I spend $75 on a Cold Steel (a US company) knife that is stamped China, or the same on a Kershaw (KAI Cutlery, a Japanese company) knife, which purchase would see the greater sum go to American citizens? I don't know about knife manufacturing, but I do know that in most industries these days a goodly sum of the profit goes to corporate execs. Not saying that is necessarily bad, just that it happens. In an American factory, at least in the states I have worked in, a large percentage of the workforce is immigrant, not American. Again, not saying this as a negative, just pointint it out.

I think there is a lot more to consider that the stamp on the tang of a knife. I have had excellent Chinese made folders, and crappy American ones. The only thing I abolutely will not buy is Italian made. I have learned the hard way the enormous POS factor in Italian machinery.
 
I love most of my cold steels and theyre Chinese :grumpy:

I don't. Like it but can't argue with prices.
 
Any spyderco, byrd, or kershaw made in china rock. Cold steel voyagers are also excellent ( made in Taiwan)
 
If you are looking for a low budget or beater, then a blade made in china fits the bill as long as they are from a reputable company. Spyderco tenacious line comes to mind.
 
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