"Made in Sheffield" 1830-1930, A golden age ?

Harry Brearley, the inventor of stainless steel, wrote extensively about his discovery, both in his autobiography Knotted String, and elsewhere. His writings shine a fascinating light on the workings of the Sheffield factory system, and the individuals who ran those factories. Brearley discovered stainless in 1913, and the first stainless knives were made by Robert (R.F.) Mosley the same year. Knife-blades were still being hand-forged in Sheffield at this time, and understanding that the new steel needed very particular and exact HT, Brearley recommended that Firth's, whose employ he had been in when discovering its stainless properties, recommended that the steel only be supplied already heat-treated. He was ignored by his former employer, who without his knowledge (as joint patent-owner) sent out samples to half a dozen of Sheffield's biggest cutlery factories. These included Rodgers and Wostenholm, but also Ibberson, who claimed to be the first firm to use stainless for pocket knives. According to Brearley, folding knives were made from it prior to WW1 (1914-18). The manufacturers used various names to describe the new steel, but it was supposed to be marked 'Firth-Brearley Stainless'. Firth's quickly reneged on this, calling it 'Firth Stainless', and while a legal action by Brearley forced them back in line, they again reneged later. Here are a few examples of early stainless knives, with their various stamps and etches. Please excuse the poor quality of the old photos :thumbsup:


The less common Firth-Brearley Stainless mark, the last example can be dated exactly to 1935.
We are commonly told that the early stainless wasn't very good, or that it wouldn't hold an edge, and it's true that the Sheffield cutlers, for the most part, preferred to continue to use carbon steel. However, the Sheffield factory owners, during this period, were often both lazy and stupid, and clearly didn't understand that different HT methods were needed. More importantly, the cutlers didn't like it, and didn't want to work with it. When you understand that most Sheffield cutlers were effectively self-employed, on 'piece-work', and had to buy their own tools, this is entirely understandable, because working stainless was much harder on their tools than carbon. Stan Shaw has told me about the early opinions of the cutlers he worked with, saying that the early stainless could wear a file in no time. "It were hard as glass."
Thanks Will.

Another "farmers whittler" from another high end UK retailer. Clements early stainless, etched Stainless Throughout.




 
Looks like it to me, small blade repaired / replaced.
One person said it had just been cleaned.
But the blade profile looks all wrong in my eyes.
Its been in the family over 30 years. So the blade repair must have been done prior to that.
 
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I have my suspicions about that pen blade. A good closeup of the tang/blade junction would be good to see.
The knife is out to have the lock mechanism tightened up.
As it does not have 100% solid lock up. More of a tight slip joint. now.
Unless the lock is depressed. Then closes freely.
I am pretty sure the pen blade has been repaired / replaced.
So no question there.
 
Thanks Jack, I sent it in to a knife repair guy, but was later told these are not easy to repair.
And the old horn is not easy to work with.. So I might just have it shipped back.
And send to a real pro for repair. The thing is, I am not sure what the value is on this one?
Trying to avoid spending more on a repair than the knife is worth with a replacement or welded pen blade.
Any advice is much appriciated. Just looking for another opinion. No harm no foul....
Thanks in advance!
 
Thanks Jack, I sent it in to a knife repair guy, but was later told these are not easy to repair.
And the old horn is not easy to work with.. So I might just have it shipped back.
And send to a real pro for repair. The thing is, I am not sure what the value is on this one?
Trying to avoid spending more on a repair than the knife is worth with a replacement or welded pen blade.
Any advice is much appriciated. Just looking for another opinion. No harm no foul....
Thanks in advance!
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An interesting example for sure. The secondary blade may have been altered, it looks rather large- suggest you work on getting some patina on it to allow it to blend in with the rest. Also it appears it may have had a bail at one time by looks of the end-cap, suggesting it may be a largish knife? Nice wrap around spring on the secondary, all steel and a decent looking front bolster suggesting some age.

Actually, I'd opt against having the locking mechanism repaired, old well used knives might be fragile and once dismantled problems could present, might end up being counter productive and costly . It is an old well used item with an attractive master blade. What it's worth is very hard to say but not too common, I know Mike Robuck Mike Robuck used to have a tab lockback with fantastic Stag and considerable age but I believe it was of German make?
 
I'd lean toward Tillotson as well. Has that pen blade been welded on to a broken stub? Nice knife regardless...
Ok I am glad someone else was thinking this Glenn :thumbsup: I too think that this knife is great, although I would have preferred a broken blade stub rather than a replacement, just a super interesting Knife in the Sheffield era I wish I had some knives from!
Value? Cant say a repair would have helped value- if anything that would take away from it- but I still think this Knife would look good on MY desk :)
The Knife to me still holds something and with anyone who likes to gather Sheffields, would most probably rather have this than not.

If someone was to ask me if I was going to do anything on this knife - I would talk to Glenn and ask him to perhaps take the replacement off and leave the original Tang to return it back to original- and yes :( I have opened myself to ridicule - but that did go through my mind.
 
Was wondering your thoughts on this one. I've never quite seen this construction before, it's interesting to me. Also, what is the significance of the "Josephson" etch on the pile side?


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