Made in the USA

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shecky said:
If we're going to name names, we should be willing to personally back up the allegations. Even with such personal guarantees, it's difficult to take such charges as anything more than hearsay. First hand reports from factories are what's needed.

I say this not to protect my personal pet companies. Folks on this forum are familiar enough with me to know I have few sacred cows. I say this because such testimony is easily tossed out with no verifiability. And I value credible information, even when it's on the internet.
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http://sogknives.com/store/AE-01.html This one says "Assembled in the USA" as do a few others. Others say "Country of origin Japan " or "Country of origin China"
http://sogknives.com/store/A01.html
http://sogknives.com/store/A01.html

I don't know what else to think but that parts are made over seas and "assembled in the USA".

As for Leatherman the packaging on some use the "Assembled" word not the "made" word. I don't know but I believe I saw that they had to start labeling them that way because some of the small parts are made else where. The web site does say that quote. "Everything is done right here, so come by and take a look!"

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742653&highlight=leatherman+made+in+the+usa
 
RevDevil said:
Can you explain why you believe this is an under the table approach? I'm interested in understanding the logic you are using to arrive at this conclusion.:)
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I would agree that it is misleading and the Federal Trade Commission would likely agree. To be "made in the USA" all significant parts and processing that go into a product must be of US origin. See FTC's website http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

The FTC is the federal agency tasked with, among other things, enforcing advertising claims. Companies that choose to market products with USA claims must be able to substantiate them.

The OP said he thought it was under the table, and if the companies his company supplies products to think they are purchasing a US product (those companies will not, rightly or wrongly, purchase products made in China) then they would likely be disappointed to learn that products are assembled in the US, rather than just made here.
 
I hear Mtek is really bad at this. They say designed in the USA and handmade in china all sorts of weird shady stuff.
 
Unfortunately, the company I work for is shipping as many jobs as they can to India and this isn't because they can't keep up with demand. We're a very large gaming company that was originally founded in Chicago back in the 30's. The two india offices have grown from zero to over 750 employees in less than 4 years while the US based jobs have shrunk. Say goodbye to American jobs at my company, probably within 1-2 years. We've had some that heard an executive say those remaining in Reno will be support, those who travel and have to face the customers. Basically a minion considering these are all educated engineers. And to add salt to the wound, Indians with visas are being hired in mass in our Reno offices too. I'd guess 25% are Indians with visas now. It's a simple matter, our Executive Vice President is an Indian and it appears all he wants to do is lower his costs and apparently that means hiring people from his own country. It's been said that he considers us Americans lazy and expensive and it's been heard that he doesn't like the Reno office because of this attutude toward us. Our company has posted record revenues and profits up to the very last quarter this year yet they have not given us a raise in two years. Yet if you look at the insider transactions, the officers have been granting themselves millions of dollars in stock and selling them like tomorrow is their last day. The executive VP cashed out 6 Million in stock options just last week, the one who is shipping our jobs to India and hiring Indians to fill our open positions here in Reno. And all executives have sold stock worth millions during the last two periods that we would have typically gotten our 3 % COLA. It won't be long before the only engineers in our company are Indians or Indians here with visas, not Americans. The CEO seems to let this guy have his way. I can safely say now, that I am starting to know what it feels like to be discriminated against because of the color of my skin and/or my nationality . . . It's tragic.

My point is, there isn't always a truly valid reason for an American company to go global. Sometimes it's just greed and discrimination for shjort term profits. If a global company, which mine is, employed staff in other parts of the world, which we do near locations with gaming, to help mitigate the demand and to produce product where the international offices are located, then I'm all for it. But in some cases, it's pure greed and in other cases it's discrimination. In my company's case, it appears to be both. As far as I know, they don't even have casinos in India.
 
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presz said:
http://sogknives.com/store/AE-01.html This one says "Assembled in the USA" as do a few others. Others say "Country of origin Japan " or "Country of origin China"
http://sogknives.com/store/A01.html
http://sogknives.com/store/A01.html

I don't know what else to think but that parts are made over seas and "assembled in the USA".

As for Leatherman the packaging on some use the "Assembled" word not the "made" word. I don't know but I believe I saw that they had to start labeling them that way because some of the small parts are made else where. The web site does say that quote. "Everything is done right here, so come by and take a look!"

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742653&highlight=leatherman+made+in+the+usa
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Not to be too nitpicky, but you seem to be taking a pretty accusatory tone with SOG for being honest. Similar the situation with Leatherman.

The OP described what seems to be a murkier practice.
 
Reeek said:
My point is, there isn't always a truly valid reason for an American company to go global. Sometimes it's just greed and discrimination. If a global company, which mine is, employed staff in other parts of the world, which we do near locations with gaming,to help mitigate the demand and to produce product where the international offices are located, then I'm all for it. But in some cases, it's pure greed and in other cases it's discrimination. In my company's case, it appears to be both. As far as I know, they don't even have casinos in India.
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It's usually just pure greed to pad the pockets of Corporate Management....

The Corps have been selling out Americans for Decades now one way or another. ;)

They use words like Global Economy to hide that fact they are just greedy while the Economy and Unemployment here in the US are suffering. As long as they get their fat bonuses they could care less.... They would sell out every employee they have putting them out on the street to keep getting them too, have and will continue to do so.
 
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Ankerson said:
It's usually just pure greed to pad the pockets of Corporate Management....

The Corps have been selling out Americans for Decades now one way or another. ;)

They use words like Global Economy to hide that fact they are just greedy while the Economy and Unemployment here in the US are suffering. As long as they get their fat bonuses they could care less.... They would sell out every employee they have putting them out on the street to keep getting them too, have and will continue to do so.
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And sometimes, they have shareholders who can't understand why they aren't making as much profit as last year. ;) They are taxed and taxed and taxed, but that isn't an acceptable excuse to people who want to see their shares go up.

There are ALWAYS two sides.

Jay
 
shecky said:
Not to be too nitpicky, but you seem to be taking a pretty accusatory tone with SOG for being honest. Similar the situation with Leatherman.

The OP described what seems to be a murkier practice.
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I am not trying to accuse SOG and Leatherman of being any but honest. Just saying that it happens. That is jobs lost to cheap overseas labor and finished here. The way the FTC defines country of origin has to do with $ value of work performed in said country. Unfinished it may be able to be classified as "raw material". So if the products value is $2 unfinished and $25 finished it might be legal to call it a "Made in the USA". It doesn't make it right in my book but rules are rules.

It would be nice if even small ticket items were labeled the way cars are on the window sticker. That is % of origin from each country.

BTW I saw somewhere that for 2010 the car with the highest % US parts is the Toyota Camry.

It is very much a world market place and the OP's company may be just doing what its competitor is doing to stay afloat.
 
dookie1481 said:
And sometimes, they have shareholders who can't understand why they aren't making as much profit as last year. ;) They are taxed and taxed and taxed, but that isn't an acceptable excuse to people who want to see their shares go up.

There are ALWAYS two sides.

Jay
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Profit is the bottom line after they all take their big payouts. ;)

If the Corp Management types even think they will be getting less Bonus money there will be layoffs and cutbacks. ;)

As long as the money keeps going into their pockets everything is fine, one little problem that could result in smaller Bonuses and they will throw people into the street.

I saw it all the time, when things got close to Bonus time they would be cutting like crazy, and it happened every quarter of every year like clock work.

The whole purpose of it is to pad the pockets of the Corp Management and the Board Of Directors, that is the bottom line.
 
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jurisprudence said:
I would agree that it is misleading and the Federal Trade Commission would likely agree. To be "made in the USA" all significant parts and processing that go into a product must be of US origin. See FTC's website http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

The FTC is the federal agency tasked with, among other things, enforcing advertising claims. Companies that choose to market products with USA claims must be able to substantiate them.

The OP said he thought it was under the table, and if the companies his company supplies products to think they are purchasing a US product (those companies will not, rightly or wrongly, purchase products made in China) then they would likely be disappointed to learn that products are assembled in the US, rather than just made here.
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Thanks, that makes sense. I think the FTC may be just as shady though, they have no real oversight that I am aware of.
 
Reeek said:
Yet if you look at the insider trading, the officers have been granting themselves millions of dollars in stock and selling them like tomorrow is their last day.
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Insider trading is illegal. Are you sure they're doing this?

Reeek said:
My point is, there isn't always a truly valid reason for an American company to go global. Sometimes it's just greed and discrimination.
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In my experience, I would say OFTEN it's just greed. Sometimes it's to cut costs and maintain or regain a competitive price advantage. But then again, all the cost cutting I've witnessed first hand was fueled by greed, too.

I wish more c-level corporate executives were mindful of how their behavior affects others in the companies they run. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for earning millions and billions. But I wouldn't do it at the expense of my employees, which is how I've seen it happen numerous times.
 
Ankerson said:
I saw it all the time, when things got close to Bonus time they would be cutting like crazy, and it happened every quarter of every year like clock work.

The whole purpose of it is to pad the pockets of the Corp Management and the Board Of Directors, that is the bottom line.
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A very accurate and concise summation of how corporate executives think and operate.
 
I meant to say transactions and will fix it. and my take on shipping our jobs to India is about short term profits. American companies seem to have lost the long term mindset of making money and treating their employess like profit depends on it. The CEO's and their VPs are not going to be here in 3-5 years. You can bank on that.

mz9393 said:
Insider trading is illegal. Are you sure they're doing this?



In my experience, I would say OFTEN it's just greed. Sometimes it's to cut costs and maintain or regain a competitive price advantage. But then again, all the cost cutting I've witnessed first hand was fueled by greed, too.

I wish more c-level corporate executives were mindful of how their behavior affects others in the companies they run. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for earning millions and billions. But I wouldn't do it at the expense of my employees, which is how I've seen it happen numerous times.
Click to expand...
 
Reeek said:
I meant to say transactions and will fix it. and my take on shipping our jobs to India is about short term profits. American companies seem to have lost the long term mindset of making money and treating their employess like profit depends on it. The CEO's and their VPs are not going to be here in 3-5 years. You can bank on that.
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Exactly, they want to show a profit over the last quarter and that's every quarter. ;)

That is the main problem with them as they have to start cutting corners and doing assorted other things to keep making a profit over the last quarter...
 
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Happens everywere.
I work for a large company that manufactures high end electronic systems for both comercial airlines as well as U.S. military aircraft, and military comunications systems. And I can tell you that the smaller components that we use come from all over the world, and that includes parts from India, Taiwan, and yes even China.

And one of our companys main selling points is the whole "made in America" thing.

Not saying this is good or bad, it's just how things are these days.
 
Reeek said:
I meant to say transactions and will fix it. and my take on shipping our jobs to India is about short term profits. American companies seem to have lost the long term mindset of making money and treating their employess like profit depends on it. The CEO's and their VPs are not going to be here in 3-5 years. You can bank on that.
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CEOs and VPs hop from company to company squeezing out a few million each time. It dosen't matter if the companies got to the wall afterwards, they and the shareholders have sold the shares and collected their profits.
 
Umm...for some reason I don't think we're talking about the knife industry anymore.

I think that a China produced knife can be marked with a different country of origin. There are countries other than the US that seem to take advantage of this type of situation.
 
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