Made in the USA

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I worked at a company as a machinist (wont name names, but the owner was very young, rich and dodgy!) and they would get in complete machinery to sell from china, disassemble and get us to reassemble with a few inhouse stuff and it was sold at massive profit as product we made...I was supposed to sign a disclosure form when I started but I left as quick as I got there, I think its using consumer confidence in a trademark and exploiting that psychological effect (even if the product is of equal quality).

If I buy US made, I want it to be made in the US...if it says Assembled in the US or similar then I could understand and be informed before making a purchase.

Buffalohump said:
To me it represents a standard of living and a culture that I support and endorse. I don't support or endorse the Chinese way. I am fundamentally opposed to it.
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QFT. :)
 
David Lowry said:
I have suspected 2 knife companies of doing this.

I will not name them because I will either get flamed or banned.
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have been with this forum for well over 10 years.

Never seen anyone banned for posting the truth. :rolleyes:

On the other hand. This thread needs to get back on the topic of knives and out of politics.
 
Bastid said:
have been with this forum for well over 10 years.

Never seen anyone banned for posting the truth. :rolleyes:
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What about hearsay? ;) (I think about 90% of us would be booted if that were the case.)

Politics aside, this seems like a pretty dodgy subject itself. It isn't about the merits of Chinese manufacturing, which so many want to make into the issue. It's about deception, quite possibly by American companies. "Assembled in USA" and "Made In USA" seem to me to have clear distinct meanings. Has anyone actually provided an example of a knife company using those phrases deceptively?

I find it unlikely that many people know for sure to what extent knife companies do this. Those in a position to know are not likely to tell, and those who are likely to tell are probably not in the position to know. Even if we stick to the subject of the OP, I don't see how this thread progresses much beyond rumor mongering.
 
From my observation (and this is just me) it seems like the major manufacturers like
Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade, are VERY CLEAR and OPEN and HONEST about the
exact origins of their knves. For instance Kershaw doesn't put an American flag on
something made in other than the US. Benchmade has their red class (or used to
anyways). Spyderco simply labels their knives approriately (as do previous mentioned).
To me it seems like many knife companies (the good ones/major ones) are largely in
touch with their customer base and their values. I think they share the same values
in terms of being very honest about where a knife is made. But that's just me. And
I don't have experience with all brands. Just basing it off of observations from previous
discussions on similar topics here and how brands responded to the threads.
 
Does anyone really think that USA made means that every part is made in the usa?
Apart from a full handmade knife i am convinced that most knives are made from parts made outside the usa.
I can't imagine someone thinking that made in the USA thinks, all parts are made in a US based shop. The G10, the screws, the bushings, the lanyard tube, the lockbars etc? Do you know how much it would cost to go to a local machine shop and get 10.000 custom made screws made, if you can buy them on the international market for a few bucks?
How about G10? How many of you know any G10 plants in your local neighbourhood?
If you want to know where knife companies get their parts check
http://panjiva.com

Type in your favourite knife manufacturer and see what they import from china, Japan, Taiwan

Benchmade
Spyderco
Leatherman
SOG
Frost (what a suprise)
Buck
Master Cutlery
Cold Steel ( India (swords), China, Japan)
Gerber knives
Kershaw
Ontario
Blackhawk ( made in Viëtnam)
Surefire
Ontario
Ka bar (uses the same factory as Spydero/Byrd)
Smoky mountain knife works
CRKT
Blue ridge knives
CCC
Grohmann knives (japan, probably boxes)
Mantis knives ( as spydero and ka bar)
 
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Jim malone said:
Does anyone really think that USA made means that every part is made in the usa?
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It means that with ZT and Kershaw.
Apart from a full handmade knife i am convinced that most knives are made from parts made outside the usa.
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Not Kershaw & ZT
Do you know how much it would cost to go to a local machine shop and get 10.000 custom made screws made, if you can buy them on the international market for a few bucks?
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We have 4 dedicated screw machines, and produce all our pivots, studs, screws, etc, right here in Tualatin Oregon.
How about G10? How many of you know any G10 plants in your local neighbourhood?
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I do
 
I don't know why, but that just makes me feel better bout the knife, Thomas.
That everything is made "in house". It's not for any political reason or anything
like that. I own knives from China/Taiwan, great ones in fact. But it's like the
same feeling when someone says they made a gourmet meal from scratch and
even the vegetables were grown in their own garden. It's just... better. Perhaps
it's just mental, but I still prefer it.
 
Personally I don't really care were it's made as long as the quality is high and they are truthful about it. :)

I do however try and support Made in USA knives as much as possible. :)
 
Thomas W said:
It means that with ZT and Kershaw.
Not Kershaw & ZT
We have 4 dedicated screw machines, and produce all our pivots, studs, screws, etc, right here in Tualatin Oregon.
I do
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Strange Kershaw buys parts from Kai industries, 1110 Oyana Seki City Gifu 501 399 Japan
And i mean Kershaw knives from 18600sw Teton Av Tualatin Or 97062 Us 503 682 1966
Someone called David Lyman imported parts.
Oops it seems David was your production manager
you also seem to have been importing bamboo knife blocks
Or were they imported for your SHUN brand?
Kershaw has 8 international suppliers according too among them Homeland security
http://panjiva.com/Manufacturers-Of?q=Kershaw+knives
http://panjiva.com/Kershaw-Knives-Ltd/2039187
I have nothing against Kershaw, but the information is on the internet.

Kershaw is Kai USA, a branch of
kai corporation
Head Office Address
3-9-5 Iwamoto-cho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-8586, Japan
Founded
1908
President & CEO
Koji Endo
Business Description
Marketing of cutlery, kitchen utensils, beauty care products, confectionery utensils, etc.
Registered Capital
450 million yen
Number of Employees
1,955 (March 2008, consolidated basis)
Sales
41.3 billion yen (March 2008, consolidated basis)
You could verify this with your boss Jack Igarashi who is also Senior Board Member of the Board of Directors for Kai Japan.
http://resources.bnet.com/topic/kai+usa+ltd..html
 
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Jim malone said:
Strange Kershaw buys parts from Kai industries, 1110 Oyana Seki City Gifu 501 399 Japan
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That would be the Mothership, not sure why that is strange.

you also seem to have been importing bamboo knife blocks
Or were they imported for your SHUN brand?
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Yes we import blocks for the houseware side of our business, always have. These are not and have never been USA products.
Kershaw has 8 international suppliers according too among them Homeland security
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That site pretty much sucks for accuracy btw. Yes we import product, it's all marked with it's proper Country of Origin.

I have nothing against Kershaw, but the information is on the internet.
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I read it on the internet so it must be true. ;)

If this post was designed to call us out and to prove your previous post, it failed, miserably. :)
 
Jim malone said:
Strange Kershaw buys parts from Kai industries, 1110 Oyana Seki City Gifu 501 399 Japan
And i mean Kershaw knives from 18600sw Teton Av Tualatin Or 97062 Us 503 682 1966
Someone called David Lyman imported parts.
Oops it seems David was your production manager
you also seem to have been importing bamboo knife blocks
Or were they imported for your SHUN brand?
Kershaw has 8 international suppliers according too among them Homeland security
http://panjiva.com/Manufacturers-Of?q=Kershaw+knives
http://panjiva.com/Kershaw-Knives-Ltd/2039187
I have nothing against Kershaw, but the information is on the internet.

Kershaw is Kai USA, a branch of
kai corporation
Head Office Address
3-9-5 Iwamoto-cho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-8586, Japan
Founded
1908
President & CEO
Koji Endo
Business Description
Marketing of cutlery, kitchen utensils, beauty care products, confectionery utensils, etc.
Registered Capital
450 million yen
Number of Employees
1,955 (March 2008, consolidated basis)
Sales
41.3 billion yen (March 2008, consolidated basis)
You could verify this with your boss Jack Igarashi who is also Senior Board Member of the Board of Directors for Kai Japan.
http://resources.bnet.com/topic/kai+usa+ltd..html
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Jim, I think you need to be careful about gleaning information from the web and formulating an opinion from it. When Thomas says that made in USA knives are all done in house, he is telling it the way it is, he has no reason to lie about it. I have been through this factory and have seen the machinery, it is as he says. People that formulate their own opinions based on inaccurate information are just causing problems and facing Liability issues for themselves for spewing untruths, not to mention insinuating that someone is a liar on top of everything else, please take a step back and evaluate your comments. You are not correct in this instance.

Dave
 
i try to buy made in the USA. (90%) maybe we can save american jobs by buying american.

companies are trying to make money, buyer beware and do own due dilligence.

spyderco, kershaw seem to take up my pocket time. busse, kabar/becker, some custom fill my fixed blade role. all made in USA.
 
kershawguy said:
When Thomas says that made in USA knives are all done in house, he is telling it the way it is, he has no reason to lie about it.
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I have no reason to think Thomas W is lying. But this logic is faulty. It seems he might have lots of incentive to lie, if he were inclined to do so, since his paycheck may be affected by divulging certain information. He's not an unbiased source.
 
shecky said:
I have no reason to think Thomas W is lying. But this logic is faulty. It seems he might have lots of incentive to lie, if he were inclined to do so, since his paycheck may be affected by divulging certain information. He's not an unbiased source.
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If you knew him as I do , you would not say that, you would totally understand. My paycheck however, does not come directly from Kershaw, but indirectly by selling their fine knives and seeing how I have seen the process, I can tell my customers that the knives that are made in Oregon are indeed completely USA made. Also a lot of people have enough integrity to not lie to save their jobs and that goes against worldly logic as well.
 
shecky said:
I have no reason to think Thomas W is lying. But this logic is faulty. It seems he might have lots of incentive to lie, if he were inclined to do so, since his paycheck may be affected by divulging certain information. He's not an unbiased source.
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So, I'm coming on a public forum, one that I've been involved with for a number of years, to lie about bringing parts in from China, in an effort to deceive our valued customers that it's really an all-American product?

Good Lord...:thumbdn:

Money can't cover up a good nights sleep shecky, and my integrity is not for sale.

Look, it is not a common practice in this industry for any brand name to do what the OPs company does. It is in other countries, just not here.
 
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kershaw is an honest company, that makes extremely well made knives at a great deal and make many in the USA. and thinking that Thomas would lie to us is an uphauling thing to say IMO.
 
Oh, gee ... let's try a little logic here ...

KAI/Kershaw is on record as making knives in China and Japan. If they tell us that, what sense would it make to lie about their American made knives?

Saying he has an incentive to lie is conspiracy theory doubletalk, and a back-handed personal insult. If you have evidence to support the allegation, let's have it. Otherwise, -- put a cork in it.
 
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