Maker; Piece; Price ?

Roger, how is that an insult?
Isn't that what attorneys do? Take testimony or words and try to make it support their case?
I seriously didn't mean it as an insult. Many of us do it here, however you are best at it IMO.
Why so sensitive?
 
Kevin Jones said:
Roger, how is that an insult?
Isn't that what attorneys do? Take testimony or words and try to make it support their case?
I seriously didn't mean it as an insult. Many of us do it here, however you are best at it IMO.
Why so sensitive?
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Gee Kevin, how is saying that I am not only a liar, but a trained liar an insult? Gosh, I haven't the foggiest!

Before you start to say that I am twisting your words - again - let me say that your suggestion that my job is to deviously "twist" the truth to serve my own ends reveals one thing for certain - you know nothing about my profession and less than nothing about me.

My job is not to twist the truth - it is to pursue it relentlessly. As a public servant, I take my professional integrity VERY seriously. I probably SHOULD be deeply insulted by your repeated suggestions that I am a profesional deceiver. Instead, I will choose to regard them as a sad commentary on the staggering level of your ignorance.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Gee Kevin, how is saying that I am not only a liar, but a trained liar an insult? Gosh, I haven't the foggiest!

Before you start to say that I am twisting your words - again - let me say that your suggestion that my job is to deviously "twist" the truth to serve my own ends reveals one thing for certain - you know nothing about my profession and less than nothing about me.

My job is not to twist the truth - it is to pursue it relentlessly. As a public servant, I take my professional integrity VERY seriously. I probably SHOULD be deeply insulted by your repeated suggestions that I am a profesional deceiver. Instead, I will choose to regard them as a sad commentary on the staggering level of your ignorance.
Roger
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I did not call you a liar, deceiver or discredit your profession, but stand by I what I said above. You are crossing the line sport with your comment above.
You can go back through your post and see where at times you scour every word of opposing post to find any detail or miss use of a word to blast someone. One that comes to mind is how you beat up on the guy that had the folder shipped to the UK with the cracked ivory. All this guy wanted was advice as to how to handle the situation. You beat on him for days. Don't think he has been back since. Don't think I'm the only one who has noticed these actions.
You should realize that everyone does not process the same language skills as you, however that does not make them less.

Furthermore, what I try to accomplish here is to promote productive discussion on knife related issues, help new collectors and to make things interesting for all, however you seem to have to blast most every post I make in your snide sarcastic manner. If you have a problem with me let's discuss it in private or get the chip off your shoulder.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I did not call you a liar, deceiver or discredit your profession, but stand by I what I said above. You are crossing the line sport with your comment above.
You can go back through your post and see where at times you scour every word of opposing post to find any detail or miss use of a word to blast someone. One that comes to mind is how you beat up on the guy that had the folder shipped to the UK with the cracked ivory. All this guy wanted was advice as to how to handle the situation. You beat on him for days. Don't think he has been back since. Don't think I'm the only one who has noticed these actions.
You should realize that everyone does not process the same language skills as you, however that does not make them less.

Furthermore, what I try to accomplish here is to promote productive discussion on knife related issues, help new collectors and to make things interesting for all, however you seem to have to blast most every post I make in your snide sarcastic manner. If you have a problem with me let's discuss it in private or get the chip off your shoulder.
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Hey Sport,

Did you forget what you wrote:


RogerP said:
Kevin - you seriously didn't get that the rituals bit was tongue-in-cheek? Even with a :p smiley? Guess I better just stick to deviously twisting your words to suit my own purpose, then. :thumbup:;)

Roger
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Kevin Jones said:
That's what you are trained to do, why not use it? ;) :thumbup:
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Devious - adjective

Marked by treachery or deceit: disingenuous, duplicitous, guileful, indirect, lubricious, shifty, sneaky, underhand, underhanded. See honest/dishonest.

That you choose to stand behind your comments surprises me not in the least.

Your little tantrum above - bringing up a thread that had nothing to do with you surprises me even less.

Your suggestion that my conduct within my profession is one characterized by deviousness does indeed stand on its own - and reveals far more about you than it does about me.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Kevin - you seriously didn't get that the rituals bit was tongue-in-cheek? Even with a :p smiley? Guess I better just stick to deviously twisting your words to suit my own purpose, then. :thumbup:;)

Roger
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Deviously was your word not mine. Perhaps it best if we don't communicate directly on this forum from this point on.
Now, I would like to address the real issue you have with me off line.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Deviously was your word not mine. Perhaps it best if we don't communicate directly on this forum from this point on.
Now, I would like to address the real issue you have with me off line.
Click to expand...

Yes Kevin,

I used the word to describe your characterization of my participation in this thread. You used it do describe my profession. Wiggle all you want, sport.

Roger

PS - I don't have an issue with you off line. I have an issue with you insulting my professional integrity on-line.
 
Roger & Kevin,
I read this whole thread, at first thinking you guys were just "hamming it up" with one another.

You are BOTH better than this fighting. Kevin, i especially thought you were kidding him about his profession, you weren't serious, were you? ..i was expecting a good lawyer joke..

Hope you will mend the fence. I often am in some disgruntled way, and its no way to be. Good points throughout this thread, by all.
David
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Kevin,

I go Knife, Price, Maker.

If the knife is flawed and/or overpriced I don't care who the maker is.

If you focus on Maker first, you will miss out on a lot of exceptional knives.

If you focus on the Price first, you will only buy knives in your "price range" and may miss out on exceptional values that are only slightly more expensive.

For me it is always the Knife first.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Judge Blade Show 2008
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
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Well put. And NEVER buy the story!
 
Kevin,
Even great makers can get old, sick, worn out or disgruntled and start producing sub-par knives. Do you still continue to buy them? I have made the mistake and "Bought the maker" before. It is not a good idea. Maker's don't need groupies, they need constructive critics and partners to advance their work.

Look at Weyer's books. How many of the great makers are still producing great works today? How many are competitive with the current "best"?

I once had a -great-maker I was fond of show me a nice bowie with a dyed, green wildwood burl handle. He loved it. He was wild about it. It was stable he said. It was different. It was flashy.

I told him if he made any more knives like that not only would I never buy another but neither would anyone else I knew. He sold the the knife to an unsuspecting idiot who probably still has it. He has never made another to my knowledge. The customer is not always right and neither is the maker.
 
Hi Anthony,

Man, not right before I go to bed....Dyed Green Wildwood Handle:thumbdn::thumbdn::thumbdn:

Now Im going to have nightmares about some of my knives with wildwood on it.

This is a perfect example of "fads" and how both makers and collectors can unwittingly create a "White Elephant".

On the plus side Wildwoods as a knife handle have for the most part gone away. There is a whole generation of custom knife buyers who don't know what you are talking about.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robersoncustomcutlery.com
 
Joss said:
Les - your philosophy is probably adapted to the dealing business, but might not be appropriate for the collecting aspect. As a collector, I am perfectly happy having a small number of pieces in my collection that I overpaid for from a market perspective and would lose money on if I were to sell. That's the price I pay for having a collection that is meaningful to me.
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Joss, you are unique. Most people that want to collect an item usually collect something that will appreciate over time to a certain extent.
For example, most people who collect antiques usually collect antiques of the kind other people also collect for this reason.

In the long run your Fogg collection will be worth a LOT, in my opinion, unless he starts turning out sub-par knives at high prices or stops making altogether.
 
Anthony,

There is enough BS out in the real world for all of us. Lets try to stay on point here.

My point to you was, WTF has the urination contest between Roger and Kevin have to do with you? Let them work it out...they don't need you stirring the pot.

If you have an issue with Kevin, pick up the phone, send an email, etc.

As with Roger, STeven, Kevin and You. All of you have a lot to offer. It does nothing but take away from the legitimacy of the information given on this forum.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
Kevin,
Even great makers can get old, sick, worn out or disgruntled and start producing sub-par knives. Do you still continue to buy them? I have made the mistake and "Bought the maker" before. It is not a good idea. Maker's don't need groupies, they need constructive critics and partners to advance their work.
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Anthony, does my collection look like I buy sub-par knives from anyone? http://www.fototime.com/inv/5AF0F94AAFF1142

And "being constructive critics and partners" is what a productive collective/maker relationship is all about. Both Jerry, Harvey and I have exchanged advise on many occasions. A collector supports the maker's work, offers advice and the maker works to uphold the collector's knife values.

A winning scenario for all involved.

Don't know anything about "knife groupies"? :confused: Do you? :eek:
 
Back on topic.........kinda:D Knife collection and collecting in general has become a funny business. How many of the middle class.non "government" patrons of such artists as Rembrandt, Vermeer and all of the great painters of the 19th and Early 20th century do you think commisioned/bought paintings with an eye on their resale/investment value? How many modern museum collections were gifts of famous collectors who could have converted them into piles of cash or left them so their heirs could cahs them in? In my mind, the ultimate position to be in as a collector would be one where you could buy whatever you liked and never sell a single piece in order to make space/raise money for another piece. To me, buying collectibles as an "investment" is almost like buying your home as one. You need a place to park your carcass and if you make some money when you sell it, great. But I wouldn't make plans to retire on the proceeds.
 
I have a small collection of Hill Pearce knives. Doubtful that they will return the same amount of money I paid for them. But... that doesn't sour me on staying on the lookout for others.

In this instance ONLY I go with Kevin's philosophy: Maker, piece, price. But it's certainly not because of my interest in return economics.

(BTW--I got a call over the holidays from Hill Pearce. Just checking in. He reads the knife mags, see's my stuff and we have a genuine friendship. He collects occasional pieces and is excited about knives, still. More important to me is our lengthy conversations, and the fact that he is willing to check in with me!)

My point is that a maker's bond to a collector can supercede popular rationale.

Coop (Proudly singing 'Kumbaya'....)
 
To me, buying collectibles as an "investment" is almost like buying your home as one. You need a place to park your carcass and if you make some money when you sell it, great. But I wouldn't make plans to retire on the proceeds.
__________________
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I will remember never to take financial advice from you!
 
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