Makers delivery times

Keith Montgomery

Keith Montgomery

Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
29,205
I will continue to order all my knives from makers, but lately I have come to understand one really good reason why folks buy their knives from dealers and/or other collectors. Over the last couple of months I have been in contact with a few makers that I am interested in getting knives from. Every one of them has an order backlog of three to four years or more. I could easily be dead before my name would get to the top of some makers' lists. It sucks when all the makers that you are wanting to get a knife from are so popular.

What kind of backlog are you folks seeing with the makers that you are ordering from? Are you willing to wait, or does a very far off delivery date put you off?
 
At least they're still taking orders. There are worse things than a 3-4 year back log :)
 
I see the same, I am willing to wait.........good things come to those who wait.......and I'd MUCH rather buy from and have a relationship with a maker than line the pockets of some of these dirtbag 'purveyors' that slither around the 'net. :)
 
Far off delivery dates don't put me off. I am patient and enjoy getting the "you're next" notification when it comes. If I restricted myself to ONLY purchasing ORDERED knives directly from the makers, I would definitely find it frustrating as there would be some looong stretches where I had no new knives at all.

Charles is right - a closed list is worse than a 3-4 year backlog.

Roger
 
I realize this my be an unpopular opinion, however I believe we as collectors have too many knives on order. Some collectors have dozens of knives on order. IMO, many times knives are ordered on impulse. We see a beautiful knife posted and we pick up the phone.

Why does it matter?
1) It's the main reason of course that waiting list are so long. Some maker's list are so long they probably don't know when or if they will ever fill them.

2) Some collectors place orders not even knowing how they are going to pay for them. I mean it's several years from now, why worry? This is obvious when you see a collector post a new knife received from an order and you know they will be putting several up on the exchange forum either shortly before or after delivery of the new piece. Many times these knives are sold for whatever a collector can get creating a negative effect on the secondary market.
It's ironic that sometimes collectors actually degrade their collections by having too many knives on order in that they sell better knives than they are ordering.

3) It has a negative impact on show sales. How many times do collectors not attend shows because they have knives arriving that need to be paid for.

Long waiting list are not just a maker problem.

OK, I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, so let me have it.
 
I much prefer to buy what I can see rather than place an order. I find makers generally do their best work "on their own". Work "by committee" rarely improves the final product.

I also like the idea of getting a place in line and then letting the maker have a broad generalization of what you like and letting him go from there. Russ Andrew's did a great job on an Amboyna bowie. I asked him to make me a big fighting bowie with damascus fitting and left him alone. The result was great. I got a nice surprise when I saw the knife for the first time and Russ told me I wasn't obligated if I didn't like it. I almost lit the pen on fire when I signed the check.
 
RogerP said:
Far off delivery dates don't put me off. I am patient and enjoy getting the "you're next" notification when it comes. If I restricted myself to ONLY purchasing ORDERED knives directly from the makers, I would definitely find it frustrating as there would be some looong stretches where I had no new knives at all.

Charles is right - a closed list is worse than a 3-4 year backlog.

Roger
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Let's face it. A maker with a 3-4 year backlog is just guessing. The majority of makers can't tell you how much time they will dedicate to filling special orders next month, much less how many they will build next year. There's shows, things come up, he may slip GOOD long time customers in front of you (which is OK in my book), there's knives he just wants to build etc..

I order quite a few knives myself and am very patient, however if a maker tells me 4 years, I know it could be two but could be 6 or never.
IMO, makers and collectors benefit by makers closing their books at 2 1/2 to three years or when they feels it's getting un-manageable.
 
Long delivery times can be caused by several scenarios.

1/ The maker is a part time maker with low output because he puts his family before making knives....the way it should be not the other way around.

2/The maker is never satisfied with his work so takes a lot longer to make each knife to his standards...........the resulting work is flawless but again the volume is low.

3/ The amount or detail of the embellishment on the knife takes a long time to accomplish.......low volume again.

4/ Illness that competes with knifemaking for time, the maker's or a family members.........lowers possible volume.

This list could go one for a long time but the end result is that low volume, high quality work, and even moderate demand can result is long wait times.

The constant contributing factor is low volume.

I would like nothing more than to spend weeks or months making every knife but the laws of economics do not support it, this is why most of the long backlog makers are basically part time makers. Full timers require money on a regular basis for groceries so volume must rule.

George
 
Kevin Jones said:
Let's face it. A maker with a 3-4 year backlog is just guessing. ...
IMO, makers and collectors benefit by makers closing their books at 2 1/2 to three years or when they feels it's getting un-manageable.
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I agree with Kevin. There are so many very good makers around, some fairly new, that my discretionary spending on knives is reached without exceeding a one year wait. Probably just as well! ;)

Paul
 
I do not mind for waiting .. Shortest one is this coming bladeshow 08. The longest one I have is 7 years. or you can hunt down old collectors .... been successfuly but very time consuming. I had one ... took me about 5 / 6 months to convince him to part from his knife. :) :) but ... I like it.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Let's face it. A maker with a 3-4 year backlog is just guessing. The majority of makers can't tell you how much time they will dedicate to filling special orders next month, much less how many they will build next year.
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By that reasoning, a maker with a 6 month wait is just guessing as well. Yes yes, I get that the longer the wait the greater the uncertainty, but I'd rather be on a list and know that my name will eventually come up (be it 4 years or 6) not on the list at all. I can always pursue that maker's work through other avenues in the meantime, but eventually the day will come when that maker will make a knife for me to my specs and that will be a happy day.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
By that reasoning, a maker with a 6 month wait is just guessing as well. Yes yes, I get that the longer the wait the greater the uncertainty, but I'd rather be on a list and know that my name will eventually come up (be it 4 years or 6) not on the list at all. I can always pursue that maker's work through other avenues in the meantime, but eventually the day will come when that maker will make a knife for me to my specs and that will be a happy day.

Roger
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I agree, as a maker telling you six months is probably guessing too, but should be a much closer guess.
I usually use 4 years for where I really like a maker's work, I just don't think it makes sense after that. Five-six years, one doesn't even know what your interest will be. I would just rather not take a slot from someone else.
 
Long waits do not bother me per se except that as my tastes change I end up not wanting the work of a given maker - or not wanting the same thing. There's also the case of makers who provide great value at some point, but by the time your turn comes, their prices have reached average, or at least higher, grounds.
 
I don't order knives. I choose to buy finished pieces only - at shows or hammer-ins, via collector/dealer/secondary market auction or private sale, at the maker's shop or on their web-site etc. There are two exceptions for me personally:

1. Tai Goo - He delivers on time every time and makes a point of doing so. If Tai can do it I don't see why others can't. I have to do it in my business and I do so I have no tolerance for excuses. This means there are some first class makers whose work I may never own. So what? They ought to think about getting on my list!

2. If a maker is fired up about an idea and needs a backer, or has started on a personal concept piece and is torn between the routine demands of "the list" vs his/her desire to complete the special concept piece, I might sign on and commit to purchase at the asking price if the maker will put completion of 'my' piece ahead of everything else. I hesitate to name names since I don't want to stir up trouble between maker and those on the list but this strategy has worked well for me in the past.

Being on a waiting list feels to me like being in a long line of beggers. I won't do it.
 
IMO, shows are probably the best avenue for buying knives in hopes of managing your collection.

• Many fine makers are present.

• They generally bring their best knives.

• You can examine the knives and discuss them with the makers before purchase. (eventhough orders can be made to your specification there are surprises.)

• There's a facility for photographing your purchased knives.

• You know when the show is coming so it gives you the opportunity to plan your financing so you are not doing the old "turn & burn".
 
HTMD said:
I don't order knives....... I choose to buy finished pieces only.

Being on a waiting list feels to me like being in a long line of beggers. I won't do it.
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Hey, if it works for you, that's great!

I choose to be very specific about much of what I purchase....I know what I like, and this frequently requires an order from the maker, as many of the knives in my collection would not have been made for a table or show...and roughly 1/2 were made to my request.

As far as waiting lists go, IF you have a specific maker, with a specific piece in mind....it is the only way to go...as far as feeling like a beggar in line....WHO is the one with the money, again????? Not sure I can relate to your feeling about this one, Buddy.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
RogerP said:
Wow. Just.... wow.

Roger
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Roger,

I guess you disagree with the gentleman from Colorado? This happens, I suppose. Your reply seems to be mocking him. Just because he doesn't agree with you does not mean that you should be sarcastic or rude.

So let me ask you how you feel about these scenarios...

1. You place an order with a knifemaker for delivery within lets say... 2-3 years. After the suggested wait time has lapsed, you take in several knife shows during each calendar year. While at these shows, you see this maker offer for sale a knife similar to the one you ordered- even if it is not the same item, it is "bench time" in the eyes of the maker.

How do you feel knowing that this knifemaker has taken your order, given you a lead time, and then tells you at the knife show that he did not have your knife ready because he was getting ready for the show.

2. Knifemaker takes and order and quotes you a price and delivery. The delivery gets pushed for many reasons (this is a part of the game)- one of which could be the "knife shows". But.... then this knifemaker raises your price up to the the "prevailing" level and does not keep to the price that was in effect at the time of your order. (This was not discussed at the time of the order.)

3. A knifemaker owes you a knife- maybe one that you have paid for or a knife that you have sent back for warranty work or whatever. The drama has now played out for a very long time- maybe a year etc- but, there is the knifemaker, at a knife show, selling knives that he worked on while not working on the knife that you are owed.

So...how would you feel about all this? Maybe you would be ok with it, but I can tell you that many collectors (and a few "net" dealers) would not be happy under these scenarios.

Best regards, Neil
 
Neil Ostroff said:
Roger,

I guess you disagree with the gentleman from Colorado? This happens, I suppose. Your reply seems to be mocking him. Just because he doesn't agree with you does not mean that you should be sarcastic or rude.

So let me ask you how you feel about these scenarios...

So...how would you feel about all this? Maybe you would be ok with it, but I can tell you that many collectors (and a few "net" dealers) would not be happy under these scenarios.

Best regards, Neil
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Neil, Roger and Buddy know each other a little bit, and I am sure that Roger is neither being sarcastic, nor rude.......:confused:

As far as your scenarios go.....not sure what the point is....but I would be pissed myself, tell the maker to go pack sand, and slam them to their face first, and TO EVERY dealer, fellow maker and collector that I know....with venom and prejudice.....if they want to risk that, it is their choice.....would be much more tolerant with explaining my position in a reasonable manner to a newbie though, rather than a veteran knifemaker, they should know better.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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