Makers delivery times

Personally now I wouldn't place an order with a maker who was quoting more than 12 months delivery, that doesn't mean I haven't had to wait more than 12 months to actually receive the knife though! The factors that can come into effect for a maker planning on making a knife in 2-3 years time are just to great to stand any real chance of being realistic.

The other thing that needs taking into account is if the maker is full or part time, I think the delivery dates offered by full time makers may be more accurate given they don't have responsibilities to employers.

My oldest outstanding order at present was placed back in 2002 from, at the time an unknown maker who over time has become one of the "upcoming stars" of the ABS, I was told when I ordered the knife would be 12-18 months and have missed a couple of suggested delivery dates! This maker attends several shows a year where he has knives for sale....

Instead of giving inaccurate delivery dates (and apologies to all the makers out there who do keep to delivery dates) how about makers giving a production allocation....scenario, customer "I want to order a knife from you" maker "sure, I have 12 customer orders on at the moment and a show I need a few knives for, I can put you down for number 13...." just a thought?
 
I have had one "bad experience" with an ordered knife. It was partially aired some years ago here on the forums. The maker - from whom I was ordering for the first time - said "send payment, your knife is ready to ship." I did, he didn't. A string of excuses ultimately led to stony silence. Did that situation suck immensely? You bet.

But....

A "very famous" maker interceded on my behalf. MANY other makers and fellow collectors offered support, encouragement and confirmation that my situation with this particular maker, was, regrettably, not unique. Eventually, sufficient pressure was brought to bear that the situation was rectified.

Did this have the effect of "driving me out" of custom knife collecting - or even away from ordering knives?

NOT A CHANCE!

Why? Because:

1) It was - and remains - a solitary bad expereince among many very positive and rewarding experiences in working directy with a maker.

2) While the experience revealed the "bad" in one person, it also revealed the "good" in a great many others.

When I look back at it, I actually regard that whole drama as a net "positive" experience and remain very grateful to those who helped.

Roger
 
Kevin Jones said:
Stephen, how does the collector going straight to the maker to save 10% on his knives help on his ROI when he's selling his existing knives at a 30%-40% loss to pay for them?

I'm addressing two of the biggest problems that face collectors today. Long waiting list and poor resale value.

My solution would help to reduce both. Perhaps collectors at the root of this problem should consider it rather than challenge it.

The CKCA has potential to do many good things for the collector and it will.
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Kevin,

Take a deep breath, step back, and think about what I have written rather than just react. Take the personal issues out of it.

My Response:

In the first place you have connected two abstract points, the collector chasing the ROI is not necessarily the collector selling at loss, I do not imply he is, your inference is incorrect. Furthermore, a collector can save a lot more than 10% with some makers if he goes to source. A collector who has bought at a good price can afford to sell at below market price and still make a good return.

To your second point: Your solution is what exactly? .... "I command that collectors should stop this behaviour immediately, stop ordering knives and buy from the secondary market" ...... they need motivation and incentive, not sanctimonious preaching and ex-cathedra rhetoric!

I have offered solutions to some of these problems in my text, I don't see yours other than saying it should stop.

Stephen
 
Kevin Jones said:
Perhaps collectors at the root of this problem should consider it rather than challenge it.
.
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Kevin, if you mean me by this, then you are wrong, but facts seem to matter little. Of the 20 plus knives I have sold, two been made at a loss due to "maker error", and I am currently offering one at current market value which will be at loss. IF you can prove otherwise put up the facts or retract.

Stephen
 
Stephen F said:
IF you can prove otherwise put up the facts or retract.

Stephen
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Come to think of it, I have been pondering where there might exist ANY empirical evidence (not anecdotal musings) to support the assertion that "..we as collectors have too many knives on order." Not to mention the sweeping generalizations about why "we" as collectors order knives in the first place.

Roger
 
It's not just collectors that have knives on order with many of these makers that have really long waiting lists. In most cases I would bet that dealers have orders for quite a few.

I have not once even thought about the fact that I might be getting my knives at a lower price from the maker than I would be from a dealer or collector. The reason that I purchase direct is that I want to have some input into how my knives are made. Even if it is just to give a basic outline. Also, I like having a little extra time to save more sheckles, if I haven't got enough put away.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
It's not just collectors that have knives on order with many of these makers that have really long waiting lists. In most cases I would bet that dealers have orders for quite a few.

I have not once even thought about the fact that I might be getting my knives at a lower price from the maker than I would be from a dealer or collector. The reason that I purchase direct is that I want to have some input into how my knives are made. Even if it is just to give a basic outline. Also, I like having a little extra time to save more sheckles, if I haven't got enough put away.
Click to expand...

Keith, is correct to say you are quite a unique collector in that you have a collection policy of no dealers and no resale? Or do you think there are many more like you out there in collectorsville?

Cheers,

Stephen
 
A lot of collectors are simply too lazy to resell their knives. When its too late they dump them at Nordic or call Blue Ridge and get killed.
 
ddd said:
I have a hidden, but quite realistic suspicion that quite a few these many
knives are on order from "dealers" who usually sell them at a profit.....
They don't mind the sometimes long waiting as knives keep coming in all the
time from their many standing orders.....

This, if proven true, surely lengthens the waiting time for the real collectors
and/or makes them purchase these same knives from dealers at a higher price....

What do you think?

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
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Interesting point.
 
I feel the waiting game depends on one's desires. I am a fan of forged fixed blades 99% of the time. I get an urge occasionally for a Johnson or Young, will probably never pay a dealer's price, and regret not getting on John's 7-year wait list at the 2006 Plaza Cutlery Show.
Other than the lower cost comment (especially concerning both of these makers), I agree with Keith's comments about a little input, and the interaction with the maker being desirable. Instant gratification from impluse buying can take a lot of enjoyment out of receiving some blades.

- Joe
 
RogerP said:
Sorry Neil, I guess I got confused by the fact that you prefaced your questions with the following:

I somehow misconstrued the above and thought your questions were directed towards me. My apologies for wasting your time - and mine - with my responses. I thought you were suggesting that your scenarios were an inherent consequence (or cause, as the case may be) of maker delays in delivery. I attempted to address that issue.

Wow - questioning my childhood, my maturity and implying a personal agenda? Seems unnecessary. I don't recall barking anything and certainly haven't demanded that you jump or engage in calisthenics of any kind. I just asked a question: "Neil - that "San Mei" damascus you are selling - what's it made of and how is it made?" What is it that you find so provocative about that?

This "San Mei" stuff could be quite unique and innovative. I am not obsessed, but curious - as I am of all things pertaining to the forged blade. It may be that the answers to my question are beyond your comprehension. It may be that you feel the answers are beyond my comprehension. Or it may be that I just don't know the secret hand shake. Of course, there could be other reasons for your refusal to respond, but since I don't know what the reasons are, I'll leave it at that.

Well, I wouldn't know about your e-mails and PMs, but I do know that several people have asked the question on the original thread and that you have been ducking and weaving like Sugar Ray Leonard in his prime. Hey, that sometimes proved a very successful strategy for Sugar Ray - it might for you as well.

I'd be happy to stop by your table Neil, but is there any chance at all that you would be more candid and forthright on the subject than you have been to date?

Oh - and a word to the wise - I know that it makes good business sense to promote yourself whenever possible, but consecutive posts trumpeting 'come by my table at the CKG show and see my great San Mei knives' is being a touch obvious.

Have a nice day now, hear?

Roger
Click to expand...

It may be that you feel the answers are beyond my comprehension. Or it may be that I just don't know the secret hand shake.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is beyond your comprehension and yes you do not know the secret handshake.

This "San Mei" stuff could be quite unique and innovative.
Click to expand...

Many seem to think so.

several people have asked the question on the original thread
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Yes, including yor close friend severedthmbs, who has a dubious past and is another one who I will not answer to, in addition to you.

is there any chance at all that you would be more candid and forthright on the subject than you have been to date?
Click to expand...

Not to you, Roger. I don't have to answer to you- don't you get it? Primarily because you called my business ethics into question in that thread (though gross sarcasm...) , and I don't respond well to accusers who throw stones and act like bullies while trying to protect the value of their own collection from a potential threat like Mick Strider. It is interesting that none of the knifemakers you and the others are protecting seem to be concerned about Mick Strider- perhaps they welcome him as another fellow who is forging Damascus and doing well. But, you seem to be terrified of him and his success.

I know that it makes good business sense to promote yourself whenever possible, but consecutive posts trumpeting 'come by my table at the CKG show and see my great San Mei knives' is being a touch obvious.
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Not obvious at all- I welcome all who would like to come and visit this show in Toronto, March 15 & 16, at the Four Points Sheraton (Toronto Airport)- 10am - 4pm each day.

So once again Roger, I must call into question the fact that you are continuing to hijack this thread started by Keith Montgomery re waiting times for custom orders. It was a nice idea and an important thread but you and your mania to have answers to your question and to have me and others who do not owe you anything bend over and do what you want is clouding your possible reasonable judgment here and you will not rest until you get your way. Hence, my reference to your ongoing childhood.

Roger- get over it. Life is short.

You can spend anther hour cutting and pasting your continued attacks on me here and continue to call me out etc...but I will not bite. Also, the week has started for me and I really do have a business to run but if you have nothing to do but press on with your childish antics then go ahead.

Neil Ostroff
 
Neil Ostroff said:
You can spend anther hour cutting and pasting your continued attacks on me here and continue to call me out etc...but I will not bite. Also, the week has started for me and I really do have a business to run but if you have nothing to do but press on with your childish antics then go ahead.

Neil Ostroff
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As we are friends, and I have no interest in further damaging that condition....I won't run with the rich bait you are laying out.

MUST say however, though, that the way you have be squabbling with Roger in these threads is completely frustrating...and beneath you.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Stephen and Kevin,

What is the ROI thing you guys keep talking about? The only ROI I know of is Return on Investment. Investment?????

You two need to be careful, you are dangerously close to becoming "Investors".

Which is incredibly dangerous as everyone on this forum knows that custom knives are lousy investments.

For every "Cool Calculating Collector" out there, there are hundreds who just "buy what they like". No reams of research. Just basing it on the number of makers compared to those whose knives are in "Uber" demand.

Makers who are telling you they have a 4 year + wait, are purely guessing.

There are things you can do to get your name "moving" up the list. Most collectors don't understand the technique(s) involved...fairly simple if you think about it.

Good thread. Josh brought up an excellent point...communicate with the maker. If you have given the maker your money...you have the right to call them a couple times a week to check on your knives progress. Especially when they have gone past the delivery date. :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Neil,

Do try to retain some loose grip on reality, will you? I have not called your business ethics into question, nor have I attacked you. I have asked a question which, for reasons you choose not to share, you refuse to answer. It's as simple as that. And yes, I fully appreciate that you are not obliged to answer, so you can stop beating that tired drum.

Now, if you wish to discuss any other aspect of maker delays I am here at the ready. But if you direct any further questions my way, please make it clear whether they are "real" questions, or not. As you have already seen, I do not always appreciate the subtleties of that distinction.

Roger
 
Les Robertson said:
Good thread. Josh brought up an excellent point...communicate with the maker. If you have given the maker your money...you have the right to call them a couple times a week to check on your knives progress.
Click to expand...

Wow, do people really do that? :p

Roger
 
Neil - I would be interested in knowing what the Strider San Mei steel / construction is.

Thanks,

Joss
 
Kohai999 said:
As we are friends, and I have no interest in further damaging that condition....I won't run with the rich bait you are laying out.

MUST say however, though, that the lack of professionalism that you have been displaying in these threads is completely frustrating...and beneath you.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

I don't understand about "rich bait"- but you have a right to your opinion and so do I.

Look back at the San Mei thing in other thread, the one that Roger brought up here, again, by way of hijacking Keith's thread, and maybe then you will see my point

If you think that it would be more professional of me to put up with the taunts, accusations and consistent never ending drive by harassment by Roger for answers to HIS questions, then good for you.

You should know me better by now- but clearly you think that Roger's behavior is completely acceptable, so again, good for you.

I didn't start this in the last thread, and I certainly didn't in this thread- look at that and tell me who is being unprofessional?

Look at how my credibility and business is being called into question here and tell me that you would shrink away and let somebody run over you if that happened to you?
 
Neil Ostroff said:
I don't understand about "rich bait"- but you have a right to your opinion and so do I.

Look back at the San Mei thing in other thread, the one that Roger brought up here, again, by way of hijacking Keith's thread, and maybe then you will see my point

If you think that it would be more professional of me to put up with the taunts, accusations and consistent never ending drive by harassment by Roger for answers to HIS questions, then good for you.
Click to expand...

I defend you, AND defend Roger...the two are not mutually exclusive.

What would I have you do? Take it OFFLINE!!

It is obviously an issue that does not need to take up public bandwidth....and that is what I have both indicated for myself(and followed up on) and with Chuck Gedraitis, in the past.

I saw what Roger wrote, and saw what you wrote....as you will recall, have followed it from the beginning....and am not taking sides.

Look, Neil, if I am at a show, and someone shoves a pile of crap in my face....I'm not going to jump over the table and beat them down anymore, because I don't want to get sued for all my stuff(the jail time is boring, but doable), and have my wife divorce me......(the public aspect).

No....I'll harness my anger, and get them down the line, when I have a solid alibi(the offline aspect).

I'm sure you can relate to this.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Dawkind said:
I see the same, I am willing to wait.........good things come to those who wait.......and I'd MUCH rather buy from and have a relationship with a maker than line the pockets of some of these dirtbag 'purveyors' that slither around the 'net. :)
Click to expand...

Nobody likes a dirtbag, except of course, another dirtbag
 
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