Man vs Wild or Survivorman

redpoint said:
Placed in a worst-case scenario survival situation, while in hostile territory, I'd put my money on Bear to come out alive. He's got the skills, training, fitness and experience. Put to you another way: on paper he looks more capable.
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The Gryllsmeister:
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I've seen several folks touting the "he climbed everest" achievement as if it's proof that "Bear" is hardcore. Lots of people "climb" everest, and they certainly ain't hardcore. Anyone with enough money can pay a team of sherpas to drag his ass to the peak. Everest has been climbed by geriatrics, blind people, a guy with one leg, etc etc etc. It was an accomplishment when Hilary did it - now it's a playground for the rich, littered with garbage and the dead bodies of those who were unlucky and got caught in bad weather, while the lucky ones survived by no skill of their own.


There are competent mountaineers who climb everest, but you don't have to be one of them to make it to the peak.
 
All that being said, however - there is one episode of Man Vs. Wild that I enjoyed thoroughly: The one I saw last Sunday, where Bear took Will Ferrell along for the trip. Will was cracking me up the whole time, acting like a complete moron and constantly asking when he would have to drink his pee.

If they made that a permanent feature of the show - celebrity guests going along purely for the entertainment value, I might watch it regularly.
 
Ive always put it this way. I would rather have a beer with Bear. But rather learn from Les.

Les is the man. For me one of the first tenants of survival is to take care of yourself. You have to watch every step. A twisted ankle, or a fall on a stick can result in making you immobile and that can kill you.

Les doesnt take chances and is WAY more realistic. But his show can be a bit slow. Bear is unrealistic and a little absurd at times. But its pretty fun to watch.

Bear carries a 400.00 custom made blade... Les carries a 40.00 Buck. LOL.
 
I like Les. Man VS. Wild belongs in the same entertainment category as American Idol, Bridezillas and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition:barf:. (IMLTHO)
 
redpoint said:
OK let's get a few things straight:

. . .
3] MvW is definitely less hardcore than Survivorman, but Bear is still a hardcore dude and doesn't deserve the 'he's a joke or a farce" monikers. As for his outdoor resume: 1] He's climbed Everest. The standard route up Everest certainly isn't the hardest on earth, but it's the highest and would make 5 marathons back to back seem like a complete joke. There's no rescues high-up on Everest. Surviving for 7 days anywhere doesn't even come close to the kind of pain and risks one assumes climbing 8000 metre peaks. He's done several other crazy expeditions as well. 2] Obviously has superb mountaineering/climbing skills and comfort dealing with heights and parachuting. 3] Wikipedia makes no mention of "The Artist Rifles" they say Special Forces SAS[Reserve]. I'm not an expert on military assets, but I don't believe the National Guard is considered a 'Special Forces' team. The article mentions that he was a survival instructor [for SAS] and a medic. If the military is asking him to teach survival skills, I would hope he's qualified. He passed the special forces selection [obviously], which I'm sure is probably pretty tough; you must be of a certain aptitude, intelligence, judgement and must exhibit strong physical ability. 4] Has a black belt, studies ninjutsu etc. 5] Speaks three languages ... etc etc.

Anyway ... the two shows are apples to oranges. One [Surviorman] is more realistic/hardcore than the other [MvW]. I think Bear is the fall guy for how a network chooses to film a program. . . . .
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A few observations, not by way of laying down revealed truth, but just what I think to be true.

If a man, however "hardcore" elects voluntarily to play the clown, he's a clown in that context.

Doing dangerous things and surviving those dangerous things proves you survived. Nothing more. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. Survival certainly does not prove expertise, much less make the dangerous behavior that he models comport with good survival practice. Compare his conduct to that advised by Wiseman or McNab, real SAS survival instructors for some many years.

His unit is called the Artists Rifles. I am not guessing. It is an honorable name in the UK, given the thousands of "Artists" who have died for their country. Like other units of the UK's "Territorial Army," it is composed of volunteers who serve thier country by spending about the equivalent of 27 days a year training, in the case of the 21st Artists Rifles (SAS) for SAS-type missions. It is not an active component of the UK reserves, whose members serve as a legal commitment following active service, much less a regular SAS unit. TA units flesh out the regular British Army and may be deployed to combat, including overseas, for time-limited periods. (Sound familiar?)

Selection for the Artists Rifles is tough - nine months of weekends and two separate weeks. http://www.army.mod.uk/specialforces/Special Air Service (Reserve).aspx

Selection for the regular SAS (22nd Rgt.) is not officially commented upon, but vets have described six months of fulltime selection that eliminates 90%+ of the applicants, who must have already served six years in the regular forces.

Da Bear was a "survial instructor" there at age 19 for a few months. But relatively qualified as he might have been, he demonstrates idiotic behavior. He may know better. I do not assume he does becasue I "hope" he does.

Our National Guard has the same sort of units, only they train for "special forces" missions. Again, Google is your friend. It's all out there.

Apples and oranges, as you say.

SAS vets have called him a poser for claiming active service. I have no basis to evaluate thier charges, or the fairness of YK bushcrafters calling him names. They are in a better position to judge.
 
redpoint said:
Has a black belt, studies ninjutsu
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If somebody would have just simply posted up front that Bear was a Ninja, I would have backed the hell right off ;)

In my defense, I qualified in my rant as follows:

kgd said:
I don't know Bear personally. I think his TV persona is moronic. His character (I do say character) gives bad and dangerous advice.
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I will go with Thomas here. If you play a clown, how can you take somebody seriously? If you give bad advice and don't follow it with a smiley, wink or indicate that was actually the wrong thing to do, then you cannot stand up in public and say - I have done all these things and therefore I am credible. When you give bad and dangerous advice, your credibility immediately becomes doubtful. Climbing mount Everest, while being an achievement, does not undo the fact that you give bad and dangerous advice.
 
Ron Hood.

Actually, I'd love to go along with both Bear and Les on the same trip just to observe the interaction between them. :D
 
Macclint said:
Ron Hood.

Actually, I'd love to go along with both Bear and Les on the same trip just to observe the interaction between them. :D
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Given "bear's" reliance on military service, it might be more interesting to see him on a trampabout with former Sgt. Major Wiseman.

John “Lofty” Wiseman joined the Parachute Regiment in 1958. He applied for service with the Special Air Service Regiment in 1959 and set a record as the youngest person ever to pass selection at the age of 18.

John served with 22 SAS for 26 years (and, as he likes to point out, 55 days)! He saw active service worldwide, in every theatre of operations and special operations required of the British Army between 1959 and 1985.

Amongst other things, John was Sergeant Major, B Squadron (Sabre Sqn) 22 SAS, Sergeant Major 22 SAS Training Wing, Head of Operational Research 22 SAS, set up the SP Team (Counter Hi-Jack), set up the SAS Counter-Terrorist Team (you know…those chaps who ended the Iranian Embassy siege) and trained the first members of the US Green Berets to return to the USA to form the famous Delta Force (US Special Forces).

John also ran the famed SAS Selection Course, deciding who was fit to join the Regiment.

In addition, John ran the Survival Training School for 22 SAS at Hereford, specialising in all aspects of survival training (land, sea, jungle, desert, arctic, wilderness… wherever a special forces soldier or civilian might find themselves).

By the time he retired from active service in 1985, he was held in such high esteem that it could be said of him, to directly quote the Commanding Officer of 22 SAS at the time, “Lofty is a legend in this Regiment”!

After retiring from 22 Special Air Service Regiment, John set up the Survival School at Hereford. John has trained survival instructors and consultants, expedition members, overseas survival training specialists, military and civilian.
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I used to love MvW until I realized Bear was pretty much a fraud. The only reason he acts so spontaneous on the show is because he knows if something goes wrong he has a crew to help him (or I hope that's why he does stupid things). Take away the crew and it could be interesting. After watching the AK episode I just laughed through most of it (the man doesn't know how to pronounce glacier) . Living in Alaska most my life I know basic survival common sense out here. He apparently doesn't.

Survivorman was much more practical. If you're stranded and trying to survive you don't know how long you'll be there or if help is even coming. He shows you the do and do nots and how to survive. In reality that's what you'd want to do rather than sliding down a waterfall and other bizarre things (why eat raw meat when you can cook it? Yeah, idk either).

It's a shame that MvW is still airing and SM was canceled.
 
AKnife said:
It's a shame that MvW is still airing and SM was canceled.
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As far as I know, Survivorman wasn't "cancelled", Les just got tired (literally) of having to pass out in the woods all the time. It can be tremendously hard on the body; especially that of a middle-aged man. I do believe Les called it quits himself, and the show's end was not due to lack of viewer interest. Others, please feel free to correct me in the event I am mistaken.

Les actually hosts a new show now, where he coaches a motley crew of youths in survival situations. I have only seen the show a couple of times, but it seems like something that should be aired in classroms. I find it apalling that "home economics", "Career & Life Management" , "Typing" and often (in separate schools) "Religion" are mandatory courses in high school, yet there is no mandate for basic survival.... heck, there is not even the option! I would like to see schools adopt Les' new show as instruction, and teach these kids how to survive should they ever need to call on such skills. It seems every new generation is growing softer and softer. Maybe I am just a grumpy old man, but I remember when it wasn't a big deal to sleep in a leaky tent, you just dealt with it. Nowadays, I hear of kids who refuse to "camp" without a luxury RV at their disposal. Sad, very sad.
 
untamed said:
Some of these shows aren't available here in my country and only watch them via the net. My personal ratings (all completely biased and unreliable of course :D) -

Most informative: the venerable Ray Mears

Most practical: Les Stroud/Survivorman

Most entertaining: Bear Grylls/Man vs. Wild

Most "tactically inspiring": Chris Ryan/Hunting Chris Ryan

. . . and Honorable Mention: Myke Hawke/I Shouldn't Be Alive :)
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I've been watching clips of Cody Lundin lately. Adding his name to my list, I mentally filed him as: Most-Charismatic-While-Making-A-Point.

(egad, did I just quote myself!?!! :eek:)
 
i like both for different purposes. i actually enjoy watching bear more recently. everyone knows he's not alone, he doesn't act like he is, alot of scenarios are set up(hence the word 'scenario') but i do learn alot. when he takes unnecesary risks its for entertainment or to show what to do if that happens and he always tells you not to do this if your really lost.
les's show is much more realistic to actually surviving since he really is surviving but its much harder for him to survive than a real situation cuz you wouldnt be hauling 50 pounds of camera gear and back tracking everything you do to get the shot which burns twice as many calories when you need to be conserving. when your stressed tired and hungry, its no wonder he gets fed up with dealing with filming and no wonder he's not makin any more shows. i think they should have gave him a camera man and just let him do the surviving part.
 
The REAL Commander said:
I find it apalling that "home economics", "Career & Life Management" , "Typing" and often (in separate schools) "Religion" are mandatory courses in high school, yet there is no mandate for basic survival.... heck, there is not even the option!
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I was lucky enough to go to 2 high schools in a small town (<5,000 people) and a slightly-less-small town (35,000 or so). At both schools, Outdoor Ed was an elective course that counted towards your phys ed requirements. They were very popular and always fully-enrolled. We did all the real basic stuff, starting a campfire, hiking, picking some common edible plants and cooking them up, etc etc. Both courses wrapped up with a day-long canoe trip after a couple weeks of practicing in the pool. Great memories! Mind you that was over 20 years ago.

As to the OT... no offense friend, but that's practically trolling around here. Stainless vs. carbon, anyone? 9mm vs. .45ACP? Blondes vs. redheads? Ford vs. Chevy? :D
 
James_Terrio said:
As to the OT... no offense friend, but that's practically trolling around here. Stainless vs. carbon, anyone? 9mm vs. .45ACP? Blondes vs. redheads? Ford vs. Chevy? :D
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CPM Stainless (or VG-10)
9mm due to universal availability
Redheads. I've had enough of blonds. (I've had enough of both, actually.)
I've had good luck with Fords, but I prefer Subarus.
 
Stroud hands down.. i do like watching both however..


oh and about the red heads.. there is a saying (local)

"red on the head, fire in the hole"
 
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