MAP pricing: Has it affected your buying habits (i.e. buying less, switching brands, etc.)?

Interesting. I'm not up on Benchmade's shenanigans but I can tell you that it is illegal to force a dealer to sell at a given price. It is price collusion. MAP's were illegal years ago but Proctor & Gamble convinced the US Supreme Court a while ago that higher advertised prices would benefit the consumer with better quality service.

It is hard for me to understand how Benchmade would enforce the price of a sale done off line. Apparently they have their dealers intimidated. It's too bad. They have a good product.
 
The ONLY way I have found to get around MAP pricing is to form a great relationship with a small dealer.
Haven't paid MAP in quite some time.
Joe
 
Knife Outlet said:
Interesting. I'm not up on Benchmade's shenanigans but I can tell you that it is illegal to force a dealer to sell at a given price. It is price collusion. MAP's were illegal years ago but Proctor & Gamble convinced the US Supreme Court a while ago that higher advertised prices would benefit the consumer with better quality service.

It is hard for me to understand how Benchmade would enforce the price of a sale done off line. Apparently they have their dealers intimidated. It's too bad. They have a good product.
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Price collusion would be if the pricing was the result of discussion between two or more competitors, not a unilateral decision on the part of a single manufacturer.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I think Benchmade's biggest problem has been brand stagnation. Their knives are expensive even when comparing MSRP value vs. other major manufacturers of equal or greater quality and their designs have been mediocre for years. They're not bad, just...meh. They could probably tweak their MAP structure, too, but it's not their biggest problem. Opinion on my part, of course.
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I have to agree. They're not bad, just...meh. Little of their product line "wows" me and I have become very critical with the few that I do like. What keeps my allegiance is the Axis lock and BM's customer service but both of those will only carry Benchmade so far.

When the Axis lock patent expires, maybe we will see some quality companies use it.
 
sabre cat said:
When the Axis lock patent expires, maybe we will see some quality companies use it.
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Nah, they'll just trademark the axis lock :p

Joking aside... I thought the patent expired in July 2016; Still waiting for my Axis lock Spyderco Sage ;) If Benchmade can use an opening hole on the 550/555...​
 
I've just bought way less knives since both custom and manufactured have jacked up their prices. Guns are about the same price as some knives and go up in value more, and can even locally be sold for more than the purchase prices where knives you have to go someplace like BF to get a reasonable amount of money for them.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
If that were the case I think it would be less common to see manufacturers adopting the policy. It's actually become something of the new norm and I expect it to continue. But that's conjecture on my part.
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It may become more common, but the competitive advantage will go to the manufacturer who has comparable quality and no MAP. Unless the rules of the free market change.
As for increased prices for more technically challenging designs, some people buy collectibles, and some buy users. I bet the market is bigger for the latter, but that doesn't t mean that collectibles aren t fine items. I have a high regard for William Henry but only own one , given as a special gift. I have several dozen Spydercos and consider fewer than a quarter of them collectibles. I must admit that I m not attracted to the high tech high price new models. I feel like a mainstream enthusiast. Much like the majority of the forum members.
 
whp said:
It may become more common, but the competitive advantage will go to the manufacturer who has comparable quality and no MAP. Unless the rules of the free market change.
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Eh...it's a lot more complicated than that. There are a lot of factors at play that create competing considerations when it comes to pricing structure and strategy. But there are literally entire college courses dedicated to stuff like that. ;)
 
In my opinion MAP has opened the doors for other companies like Reate, kizer and others . When Reate came out their price was around $170 at that time we were able to buy ZT 801 for $140 or the 562 cf for $200 so I never thought about them but when MAP hit us a Benchmade 761 for the $320 a 940CF for $260 you start looking at Reate you try them out and like them and there goes my ZT and Benchmade money .

Spyderco is the one company that does not get my money any more . Priced at MAP they are just not worth it to me I want a slyss but I refuse to pay $300 for it so I'm saving that money for a Olamic 247 . The only Spyderco I'm getting this year is the Sprint Caly .
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I think Benchmade's biggest problem has been brand stagnation. Their knives are expensive even when comparing MSRP value vs. other major manufacturers of equal or greater quality and their designs have been mediocre for years. They're not bad, just...meh. They could probably tweak their MAP structure, too, but it's not their biggest problem. Opinion on my part, of course.
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I completely agree. Also of note, their QC has dropped considerably.

When the standard steel is 154cm, it leaves you feeling a bit ripped off. Benchmade has rested on their laurels of brand recognition and sporting goods store sales. Once in a while they throw the knife enthusiast a a bone, but generally at an exorbitant price. Benchmade enforcing MAP/increasing prices took a bad situation and made it far worse. Their newer offerings really aren't any departure from what is already out there.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Eh...it's a lot more complicated than that. There are a lot of factors at play that create competing considerations when it comes to pricing structure and strategy. But there are literally entire college courses dedicated to stuff like that. ;)
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There may be college courses that cover retail price fixing, but is it really that complicated? Without price differences, the only way to compete in retail of a company s products is with customer service and marketing. Where would Walmart be if everything they sold was MAP ? Or Home Depot? MAP is simply not the American way of doing business.
Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see Spyderco go down that road. Oh well.:(
 
I'm glad I finally read this thread. It may be the most interesting on the forum presently.

I've only been into knives as a hoby/passion/obsession for a year now. I don't know the world before MAP. It is, however, quite safe to say that if knives cost less, I would buy more.

My assumption is that MAP was instituted in order to "protect" the small business LKS from being eclipsed by on-line sellers. Is there someone posting with authorative knowledge that can confirm that, or is it interweb legend?

I am all for protecting small business. I wish I had a LKS nearby to support! If there was one, liberty to offer a discount or a sale now and again would increase my patronage--guaranteed!

However, I think miltmaldo miltmaldo nailed sometheing important.
miltmaldo said:
In my opinion MAP has opened the doors for other companies like Reate, kizer and others . When Reate came out their price was around $170 at that time we were able to buy ZT 801 for $140 or the 562 cf for $200 so I never thought about them but when MAP hit us a Benchmade 761 for the $320 a 940CF for $260 you start looking at Reate you try them out and like them and there goes my ZT and Benchmade money .
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Now, I know that cutlery is not major manufacturing in the grand scale of GDP & things, but I REALLY do not want to see the US knife industry go the way of Zenith electronics. I join miltmaldo miltmaldo in feeling that MAP provides further opportunity for undercutting and loss of market share.

<Yes, I am aware that KAI-USA is a Japanese subsidiaiary and my favorite Spyderco is made in Taichung> :)
 
MAP is a total conundrum to me. I can't think of any other retail industries I'm involved in with widespread MAP policies.

It has completely changed my buying habits, in some ways, for the better.

I buy almost everything I can online. It's cheaper. And even when I need to see/touch the physical product first, I'd sometimes do so in a retail store then later buy it online. Especially if there's a big price difference.

Now, I get almost the same price from my retail store as I do online. The only difference is tax, and, at my retail store, I can check for things like blade centering before buying.

So now I buy everything in store instead of online. Unbelievable! I actually enjoy the experience too.

Would I want everything to be MAP? NOPE! I like money more! But do I hate it in the knife industry? I'm pretty new so it's all I have experience with. And I kind of like the results, even though my wallet doesn't.

EDIT: forgot to mention, Benchmade is my favorite knife company
 
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4mer_FMF said:
I'm glad I finally read this thread. It may be the most interesting on the forum presently.

I've only been into knives as a hoby/passion/obsession for a year now. I don't know the world before MAP. It is, however, quite safe to say that if knives cost less, I would buy more.

My assumption is that MAP was instituted in order to "protect" the small business LKS from being eclipsed by on-line sellers. Is there someone posting with authorative knowledge that can confirm that, or is it interweb legend?

I am all for protecting small business. I wish I had a LKS nearby to support! If there was one, liberty to offer a discount or a sale now and again would increase my patronage--guaranteed!

However, I think miltmaldo miltmaldo nailed sometheing important.


Now, I know that cutlery is not major manufacturing in the grand scale of GDP & things, but I REALLY do not want to see the US knife industry go the way of Zenith electronics. I join miltmaldo miltmaldo in feeling that MAP provides further opportunity for undercutting and loss of market share.

<Yes, I am aware that KAI-USA is a Japanese subsidiaiary and my favorite Spyderco is made in Taichung> :)
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Most big box stores, local knife and gun stores, sell things at MSRP. Being that most of these stores primary sales focus is not knives, they need not worry about losing business to online shopping. These kinds of stores are the bread and butter of Benchmade, whose products generally sell for MSRP.

MAP is not at all about protecting the little guy. It is about minimizing profit loss.
 
whp said:
There may be college courses that cover retail price fixing, but is it really that complicated? Without price differences, the only way to compete in retail of a company s products is with customer service and marketing. Where would Walmart be if everything they sold was MAP ? Or Home Depot? MAP is simply not the American way of doing business.
Sorry for the rant. I just hate to see Spyderco go down that road. Oh well.:(
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Yes, it really is. Unfortunately it would take more time than I have to get into all the nitty-gritty details here, but just think about all of the stakeholders in the sale of a knife. There's not only the manufacturer and end buyer to consider, but also the retailer. Retailers are the channels that the manufacturers use to get the product to the buyer. It's their distribution network. And if your distribution network isn't healthy and widespread then it means reduced sales volume for you as the manufacturer. When one major source is carrying your products at razor thin margins it means the hundreds or thousands of other smaller retailers in your industry sector are going to be discouraged from carrying your products. The little guys can't buy in the huge volume that the industry giants can, and so can't afford to sell at the same margins as the big guys, who use their wholesale discounts to absorb losses they incur through their heavy retail price discounting and make up for it in volume sales. MAP gives the little guys a bit more breathing room and encourages them to carry the product, greatly broadening the reach of the brand.

I do think that several notable companies have been more than a little ham-fisted in their approach, and it's hurt them and been an opportunity for others. But those with a more nuanced approach to it seem to be doing fine. People have been whining about Spyderco a lot here, but they've set their MAP quite low to the point where many or even most retailers were already selling above what is now MAP. It just staunched the folks that were beginning to hurt the health of distribution. They've experienced price increases on some models, like their Japanese ones in particular, but that's not due to MAP--it's due to changes in exchange rates and material costs, mostly, among other factors.
 
I haven't bought any Benchmade knives since MAP went into effect. Part of that decision was due to a lackluster product portfolio, but the MAP policy just squeezed out whatever value was remaining in the line. The core Spyderco product line is still quite reasonably-priced even after they implemented MAP.
 
I want to amend my previous statement, as well as add to it.

When it comes to pricing of Benchmade, it is very often the same whether online or in store. I think stores recognize that Benchmade's MAP is already exorbitant, and to ask much more would be to lose business. About six months ago I was talking to the manager of a local outdoors shop, and he said he hasn't sold a Benchmade in over three months, and that they no longer order them. Much of what they had we're display models, because they could discount those. They had a 484-1 Nakamura for $175. I would have bought it but it was off center and the action was gritty.

It will be interesting to see what the future holds.
 
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